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  1. #5326
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    I think the Politics forum is the absolute worst area of this entire site. I really only visit it due to how active it is and to laugh at people that take this **** so seriously.



    So you just come here to troll and be an arsehole? Well, I am glad we provide an atmosphere where you can excel in being who you are. I guess some people enjoy being the turd in the punch bowl.
    Last edited by WES445; 12-14-2019 at 11:24 AM.

  2. #5327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    How did you get from that quote to "everything is exactly the same" under Trump?
    “Can’t really change the country” and “their ability to change things is small”. Also, it’s that quote and other comments you’ve made on here about how Trump hasn’t really done much.

    For someone who can’t really change the country according to you, He has done and changed a lot.

  3. #5328
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    “Can’t really change the country” and “their ability to change things is small”. Also, it’s that quote and other comments you’ve made on here about how Trump hasn’t really done much.

    For someone who can’t really change the country according to you, He has done and changed a lot.
    I agree with some parts of Scouts argument but not to the extreme he takes it.

    Yes, the president can be shackled by the political world and public will that surround him, but he does have the ability to set the national tone in the public arena. He can validate ideas.

    Changed the level of political discourse, increase the polarization of our system. Raise people distrust of the media, intelligence agencies. Our ties with our foreign allies. He definitely changed the republican party enough to cause some of it's base to revolt or just leave the party. Fake news. Having white nationalists on his staff thus giving those people respectability.
    Last edited by WES445; 12-14-2019 at 12:12 PM.

  4. #5329
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Changed the level of political discourse, increase the polarization of our system. Raise people distrust of media, intelligence agencies. Our ties with our foreign allies. He definitely changed the republican party enough to cause some of it's base to revolt or just leave the party. Fake news. Having white nationalists on his staff thus giving those people respectability.

    In some areas, the President has a lot of sway over public and political discourse. He can give respectability and voice to people like JFK, RFK did during the civil rights movement.
    Unless something changes that is measurable and very statistically significant over our 320 million person pop it will be deemed small stuff
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  5. #5330
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Unless something changes that is measurable and very statistically significant over our 320 million person pop it will be deemed small stuff
    I can agree with that. There is an old saying that came out of the labor movement of the early 1900s that says nothing really changes until blood hits the streets. Every change to this country evolves slowly over time because of the resistance against it until it explodes on the streets. A president can either speed up or repress that change by the issues he validates.

    A lot of the fears from the progressive side with Trump is he is repressing climate change and various other issues near and dear to their hearts.

  6. #5331
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    “Can’t really change the country” and “their ability to change things is small”. Also, it’s that quote and other comments you’ve made on here about how Trump hasn’t really done much.

    For someone who can’t really change the country according to you, He has done and changed a lot.
    Changes to the country are big, long term things. IIRC, you admitted his long term effects are not significant yet. But do you really not understand the difference between "change the country" and "ability to change things is small" and "everything is exactly the same"?

    If someone took the tip off your penis the change to your life would be small but I doubt you would say "everything is exactly the same".

  7. #5332
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    What made you think I give a rats *** about what YOU think? Whiny *** little jabroni.
    Because I was betting that you’d flip out and come back with an asinine response...and you did.

    And are you really that pathetic that you have to troll around a forum to entertain yourself, and by belittling others at that?

  8. #5333
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    I agree with some parts of Scouts argument but not to the extreme he takes it.

    Yes, the president can be shackled by the political world and public will that surround him, but he does have the ability to set the national tone in the public arena. He can validate ideas.

    Changed the level of political discourse, increase the polarization of our system. Raise people distrust of the media, intelligence agencies. Our ties with our foreign allies. He definitely changed the republican party enough to cause some of it's base to revolt or just leave the party. Fake news. Having white nationalists on his staff thus giving those people respectability.
    This is exactly what I've been saying. The President, in his office, has limited ability to legislate. He does have singular ability to change and direct the public and political discourse in the country.

    That is universal.

    Trump specifically has been less effective in getting things passed than most presidents. Most of what he's "done" is talk, or push specific interpretations of existing laws, none of which have long term effects on the country.

    The things you mentioned:

    "increase the polarization of our system" - I can't put that all on Trump. He had a lot of help from the Democratic party and the media in pushing that narrative, even before he was President.

    "Raise distrust of the media" - That was well on it's way long before Trump.

    "intelligence agencies" - Manning and Snowden made that a fact before Trump.

    The ties with foreign allies is a tougher one ... Obama was really good at talking to people and getting them to like him, but it looks like Trump has improved our trade deals situation overall, and at least the countries that have swung to the right seem to like him/us even more now.

    I suspect the GOP will go right back where it was before Trump as soon as Trump is gone.

    The white nationalists on his staff ... that one is just bizarre, and certainly that voice has gotten louder under Trump, but that is still the public discourse, and stuff like that was there before Trump and I bet is going to get worse before it gets better as factories slowly close over the next decade.

  9. #5334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Changes to the country are big, long term things. IIRC, you admitted his long term effects are not significant yet. But do you really not understand the difference between "change the country" and "ability to change things is small" and "everything is exactly the same"?

    If someone took the tip off your penis the change to your life would be small but I doubt you would say "everything is exactly the same".
    By what definition are changes to the country big long term things? By your definition only. Japanese internment camps were definitely a change to the country and that was not big and long term.

    And no, I never admitted his long term effects are not significant. I said they are reversible, but that doesn’t make the insignificant.

    Play semantics all you want, we both know you have repeatedly attempted to minimalism the effect he has had on the country. It has been a big effect.

  10. #5335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    This is exactly what I've been saying. The President, in his office, has limited ability to legislate. He does have singular ability to change and direct the public and political discourse in the country.

    That is universal.

    Trump specifically has been less effective in getting things passed than most presidents. Most of what he's "done" is talk, or push specific interpretations of existing laws, none of which have long term effects on the country.

    The things you mentioned:

    "increase the polarization of our system" - I can't put that all on Trump. He had a lot of help from the Democratic party and the media in pushing that narrative, even before he was President.

    "Raise distrust of the media" - That was well on it's way long before Trump.

    "intelligence agencies" - Manning and Snowden made that a fact before Trump.

    The ties with foreign allies is a tougher one ... Obama was really good at talking to people and getting them to like him, but it looks like Trump has improved our trade deals situation overall, and at least the countries that have swung to the right seem to like him/us even more now.

    I suspect the GOP will go right back where it was before Trump as soon as Trump is gone.

    The white nationalists on his staff ... that one is just bizarre, and certainly that voice has gotten louder under Trump, but that is still the public discourse, and stuff like that was there before Trump and I bet is going to get worse before it gets better as factories slowly close over the next decade.
    Yes, I agree with you on those things that have always been here, but his validation of certain things has repress us from solving our problems. When it comes to climate change, if a moderate democrat wins, our ability to deal with climate change could be set back another decade when it will be too late accord to climate scientists who don't work for big oil.

    You agree with me that he has the power to change political, public and (forgive me, but I must add foreign) discourse. Where we disagree is how powerful that ability is. Sometimes what a president doesn't validate, from his pulpit, can bring great harm to people even over a short period of time. Ask the Kurds about this when it comes to our commitment to our allies. That will affect our ability to gain alliances in trouble regions in the future. How can foreign governments trust American alliances or treaties if the next president can revoke or amend that agreement?

    It isn't about just the legislative ability he doesn't have, but the moral compass he is supposed to set for the nation as a whole. JFK set the Liberal tone about civil rights. FDR has great influences on the Progressive agenda.

    I don't see the Republicans going back to anything because I don't see it now. From past events, I can see them doubling down or getting more entrenched in Trumpism. Those who could have made those changes are either dead, Sen. McCain or left the party. We already got posters here who are willing to overlook his flaws because he stands with them or they totally despise the democrat, moderates and progressives alike. The republican party has lost a generation thanks to Trump. I don't see the republicans embracing diversity, climate change or anything they didn't champion before Trump. That is a helluva change that can only occur over a generation.

    The damage he has done will have a long effect on our alliances, climate change attitudes (no I won't say mindset )and social discourse.
    Last edited by WES445; 12-14-2019 at 04:08 PM.

  11. #5336
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    So you just come here to troll and be an arsehole? Well, I am glad we provide an atmosphere where you can excel in being who you are. I guess some people enjoy being the turd in the punch bowl.
    Ahh....I made someone else upset. What a travesty.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  12. #5337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Because I was betting that you’d flip out and come back with an asinine response...and you did.

    And are you really that pathetic that you have to troll around a forum to entertain yourself, and by belittling others at that?
    You are always SO darned clever!

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  13. #5338
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Ahh....I made someone else upset. What a travesty.
    Once again, you give yourself to much credit in your trolling ability. Not a surprise that you do. I am not upset because I feel sorry for someone who finds enjoyment laughing at people and make snarky comments.
    Last edited by WES445; 12-14-2019 at 04:25 PM.

  14. #5339
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    You are always SO darned clever!
    Happy to have provided you with your laughs for the day. And speaking of clever, you even got to use the smiley feature — well done.

  15. #5340
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    Just because posters like you two always paint yourselves as the mopey victims of this cruel world, doesn't mean I'm trolling either of you. It's pretty funny how visceral of a reaction I got out of the two of you for simply stating that I think this is the lamest forum on PSD and that I really only visit because it is so active (and I can find humor in the people here who take themselves and their activity in this forum so damn seriously).

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

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