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  1. #14776
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    I'm not sure what every time means, but good for you.

    Trump also left states to find their own supply chain of PPE and ventilators early on, even though the feds already would've had that in place and eventually worked with companies to create more...but only after states were drastically short for weeks/months.

    What do you suppose the message was to his supporters when he originally refused to wear a mask and to this day still holds rallies where they supposedly offer masks, but by his own words don't even strongly suggest let alone mandate them? How do you think it looks when he stands maskless in front of a big crowd where, generously, a third are wearing a mask despite sitting tightly together? And this is now over 8 months since he himself uttered the words to Woodward that the virus was highly contagious and dangerous....yet still.
    The entire federal government was short and couldn't just send them all to every state. Some states were hit harder so he wanted states to not have to depend on the federal government to supply all of it. You aren't following what actually happened. Trump never left the states to create their own supply. He stated that he would provide as much as the federal government could but that the states needed to find another solution if they need more because there was a national shortage.

    As for the masks, I've already gone on record stating that Trump not pushing for a federal mandate to wear masks was one of the issues I've had with him. Nonetheless, he's giving people and states that option to do so. It's not like he isn't telling them to not wear it. But thanks for trying to push an issue that I never disagreed with. Just do some research on you suggesting Trump told the states that he wouldn't help them get PPE. It's inaccurate.

  2. #14777
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    1) Lol. Testing takes time. They didn't have enough testing sites available.
    2) He left the choice about masks to local governments.
    3) Lol, how do you know there weren't any regular briefings? He was working with the CDC every day. I remember people were sick of hearing from Trump since he had to do a briefing every day and was on the media.

    Seems to me you could barely name a few things that he 'still hasn't done'.
    1) Trump literally sent a directive to slow down testing. Yes, he tried to limit the amount of testing; that is on him.

    2) And that was a mistake. We know masks are effective and we have seen spikes in states that did not mandate masks.

    3) https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/23/fauc...al-months.html

    President Donald Trump hasn’t attended a coronavirus task force meeting in “several months,” even as new cases in the U.S. continue to climb, White House coronavirus advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said Friday.


    Seems to me like you're trying to downplay the things I said. I listed 9 things. That's a lot (certainly more than barely a few).


    Trump and the federal government have handled Covid terribly. America agrees (it's why Trump has abysmal ratings on how has he handled the virus).

  3. #14778
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    You're just saying that but federally, they have done a lot of what experts have recommended. It's now just to the point of how much they want to affect the economy and any stimulus deal which is sure to come with gridlock this close to the election. But again, name what else could be done otherwise you're just saying what ifs.
    So constantly questioning the effectiveness of masks (if not outright ridiculing people for wearing them), encouraging citizens to disobey local safety guidelines, and holding large superspreader events are all things the experts recommended?

  4. #14779
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    The entire federal government was short and couldn't just send them all to every state. Some states were hit harder so he wanted states to not have to depend on the federal government to supply all of it. You aren't following what actually happened. Trump never left the states to create their own supply. He stated that he would provide as much as the federal government could but that the states needed to find another solution if they need more because there was a national shortage.

    As for the masks, I've already gone on record stating that Trump not pushing for a federal mandate to wear masks was one of the issues I've had with him. Nonetheless, he's giving people and states that option to do so. It's not like he isn't telling them to not wear it. But thanks for trying to push an issue that I never disagreed with. Just do some research on you suggesting Trump told the states that he wouldn't help them get PPE. It's inaccurate.
    This was a terrible strategy. Trump basically told the states it was up to them to figure out how to get their PPE, this resulted in states having to literally bid against each other for PPE.

    A National central response would have been better because then the Federal Government could have given the PPE to the states with the most need. Several states that were hit hardest couldn't get enough PPE because other states were stocking up and taking the limited supply even though they didn't need it as much as other states.

    It was a terrible strategy.

  5. #14780
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    The entire federal government was short and couldn't just send them all to every state. Some states were hit harder so he wanted states to not have to depend on the federal government to supply all of it. You aren't following what actually happened. Trump never left the states to create their own supply. He stated that he would provide as much as the federal government could but that the states needed to find another solution if they need more because there was a national shortage.

    As for the masks, I've already gone on record stating that Trump not pushing for a federal mandate to wear masks was one of the issues I've had with him. Nonetheless, he's giving people and states that option to do so. It's not like he isn't telling them to not wear it. But thanks for trying to push an issue that I never disagreed with. Just do some research on you suggesting Trump told the states that he wouldn't help them get PPE. It's inaccurate.
    You have rose colored glasses here
    https://www.vox.com/2020/4/5/2120880...rs-masks-march
    https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...-orders-2020-4
    https://www.businessinsider.com/docu...-masks-2020-10

    that's just with one quick search
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  6. #14781
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    1) Trump literally sent a directive to slow down testing. Yes, he tried to limit the amount of testing; that is on him.

    2) And that was a mistake. We know masks are effective and we have seen spikes in states that did not mandate masks.

    3) https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/23/fauc...al-months.html

    President Donald Trump hasn’t attended a coronavirus task force meeting in “several months,” even as new cases in the U.S. continue to climb, White House coronavirus advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said Friday.


    Seems to me like you're trying to downplay the things I said. I listed 9 things. That's a lot (certainly more than barely a few).


    Trump and the federal government have handled Covid terribly. America agrees (it's why Trump has abysmal ratings on how has he handled the virus).
    I'm not aware of him slowing down testing in the early stages. I do know he thinks America is testing too much and because of that, the cases are skyrocketing as compared to other countries where testing isn't readily available.

    It was. I am against Trump not pushing for masks. Nothing can be done at this point but states and people still have to decide what is best for them. Ultimately, states can mandate it. They never needed Trump's approval.

    As for your third point, you said they aren't conducting regular briefings. Again, where did they say that? Fauci stated that Trump himself isn't attended the briefings but Trump, because of the election, has delegated that responsibility to Mike Pence. Mike Pence attends the briefings or gets briefed and then relays that to Trump.

    “The President is routinely briefed about the coronavirus each and every day. The relevant information is brought to him on the big decisions, and then he moves forward in the way that’s best for our country,” White House spokeswoman Sarah Matthews told CNBC in a statement.

    As per your article states. So no, Trump does get briefed. It's just he's not personally attending the briefings...

  7. #14782
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    You're just saying that but federally, they have done a lot of what experts have recommended. It's now just to the point of how much they want to affect the economy and any stimulus deal which is sure to come with gridlock this close to the election. But again, name what else could be done otherwise you're just saying what ifs.
    In July it took by 83 year old mother 9 days to get a test result and that was normal. A coordinated testing and tracing would have helped a lot. Same with PPE. You don’t remember doctors wearing reusing masks and wearing homemade crap.

    He feds did a **** job or passed the buck when they should have been stepping up for months and months


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  8. #14783
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    No, you just can't read properly. And I'm sorry to say this but if you're an accountant, I would hope you're not doing the same with financial statements.

    "Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment — try getting it yourselves," Trump told the governors during a phone call, The New York Times reported. "We will be backing you, but try getting it yourselves. Points of sales, much better, much more direct if you can get it yourself."

    Trump never said it was up to the states. He said, on numerous times, that the federal government would try to help the states as much as they could but that the states should try to figure out how to get more if needed. As you know, some states were worse than others so by your logic, NYC should have received all the PPE and other states shouldn't have gotten any. What is the logic in that?

    Again, read your articles. Find a source that states Trump said states were on their own...

  9. #14784
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    the kool-aid is strong in this one
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  10. #14785
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    I'm not aware of him slowing down testing in the early stages. I do know he thinks America is testing too much and because of that, the cases are skyrocketing as compared to other countries where testing isn't readily available.

    It was. I am against Trump not pushing for masks. Nothing can be done at this point but states and people still have to decide what is best for them. Ultimately, states can mandate it. They never needed Trump's approval.

    As for your third point, you said they aren't conducting regular briefings. Again, where did they say that? Fauci stated that Trump himself isn't attended the briefings but Trump, because of the election, has delegated that responsibility to Mike Pence. Mike Pence attends the briefings or gets briefed and then relays that to Trump.

    “The President is routinely briefed about the coronavirus each and every day. The relevant information is brought to him on the big decisions, and then he moves forward in the way that’s best for our country,” White House spokeswoman Sarah Matthews told CNBC in a statement.

    As per your article states. So no, Trump does get briefed. It's just he's not personally attending the briefings...
    Trump would be right if the positivity rate of our tests was going down. But it isn't. The positivity rate is startlingly high given how much we are testing. Roughly 7% of our tests are coming up positive. So if we run 1,000,000 more tests, we will see on average 70,000 more cases.

    https://ourworldindata.org/coronavir...g-the-pandemic

    Thankfully we are currently doing better than most of Europe where they are seeing spikes very recently.
    Prior to 11/1/19: if you were on my ignore list, I was sticking to ignoring you thanks to great advise.
    From 11/1/19 on: I will no longer be responding to comments back to people on my ignore list.
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    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!


  11. #14786
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    No, you just can't read properly. And I'm sorry to say this but if you're an accountant, I would hope you're not doing the same with financial statements.

    "Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment — try getting it yourselves," Trump told the governors during a phone call, The New York Times reported. "We will be backing you, but try getting it yourselves. Points of sales, much better, much more direct if you can get it yourself."

    Trump never said it was up to the states. He said, on numerous times, that the federal government would try to help the states as much as they could but that the states should try to figure out how to get more if needed. As you know, some states were worse than others so by your logic, NYC should have received all the PPE and other states shouldn't have gotten any. What is the logic in that?

    Again, read your articles. Find a source that states Trump said states were on their own...
    You accuse him of not being able to read and then post this nonsense? The quote you posted Trump clearly says ALL the equipment, and you are saying he meant MORE.


    Trump left it up to the states.

    But your question of the logic of NYC receiving all the PPE shows how fundamentally you don't understand the necessity of central distribution.

    NYC should have received most of the PPE at the beginning when NYC was the primary hotspot, then when other hotspots started popping up you shift PPE distribution to those hotspots. That's how containment works.

  12. #14787
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    You accuse him of not being able to read and then post this nonsense? The quote you posted Trump clearly says ALL the equipment, and you are saying he meant MORE.


    Trump left it up to the states.

    But your question of the logic of NYC receiving all the PPE shows how fundamentally you don't understand the necessity of central distribution.

    NYC should have received most of the PPE at the beginning when NYC was the primary hotspot, then when other hotspots started popping up you shift PPE distribution to those hotspots. That's how containment works.
    "We will be backing you but try getting it yourselves." In other words, we can help but states should also try getting it themselves. Which part is difficult to comprehend here? Are you just nitpicking words to fit your agenda? It's obvious what is being implied here.

    NYC did receive the majority of PPE early on. The part that you don't understand is that Trump can't send the national stockpile to NYC in case there are outbreaks in other states. Which part don't you understand? This is why he said he will be backing them up but also stated that states should try and get their own as well because the feds can't provide everything.

  13. #14788
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    "We will be backing you but try getting it yourselves." In other words, we can help but states should also try getting it themselves. Which part is difficult to comprehend here? Are you just nitpicking words to fit your agenda? It's obvious what is being implied here.

    NYC did receive the majority of PPE early on. The part that you don't understand is that Trump can't send the national stockpile to NYC in case there are outbreaks in other states. Which part don't you understand? This is why he said he will be backing them up but also stated that states should try and get their own as well because the feds can't provide everything.
    Bolded: The part where Trump some all and you said more.


    And it's not about sending the national stockpile, it's about centralizing production and purchasing so that he can then send the masks to where they are needed.

    States were literally bidding against themselves for PPE.

    It was a bad strategy.

  14. #14789
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Bolded: The part where Trump some all and you said more.


    And it's not about sending the national stockpile, it's about centralizing production and purchasing so that he can then send the masks to where they are needed.

    States were literally bidding against themselves for PPE.

    It was a bad strategy.
    States bidding against themselves is another story. He never claimed he wasn't going to help the states merely suggesting that states should try and get their own. Sitewolf claimed he told states they were on their own. That was clearly not the case... The feds sent PPE to every state. NYC was hit hard. They can't expect the fed to provide everything. It's funny how this works. NYC refuses to comply with ICE and the feds can't do anything to change their minds. NYC needs PPE and then feds must bail them out. How much help is the question here. And I fully believe states should also be prepared for something like this instead of relying on the feds - which is the entire point Trump is making.

  15. #14790
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Trump would be right if the positivity rate of our tests was going down. But it isn't. The positivity rate is startlingly high given how much we are testing. Roughly 7% of our tests are coming up positive. So if we run 1,000,000 more tests, we will see on average 70,000 more cases.

    https://ourworldindata.org/coronavir...g-the-pandemic

    Thankfully we are currently doing better than most of Europe where they are seeing spikes very recently.
    Well, the economy is opening up in many states. Of course the positivity rate will increase. The way I see it is this virus is one for the books. Every country got hit. Every economy will suffer. Is it bad? Yes. Could it have been better? Definitely. Could it also have been much worse? 100%. How much of it is debatable and we will never truly know. The point is, pinning this on Trump solely is fair but also ridiculous if we're trying to break down the fact that the federal government is not the ruler of the country.

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