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  1. #14731
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    Lol.

    Trump was in charge, that by default doesn't mean he is responsible for 200k deaths. This COVID hit every country hard. Some more than others but because America is a superpower of the world, they can't shut their economy down so there is more risk and thus, a higher death count.

    Most of the deaths could be prevented by states. You do realize Cuomo can shut down NY if he wanted and have ZERO deaths since the entirety of COVID, right? You do realize Cuomo sent thousands of people to die in a nursing home and that death count is included in the 200k deaths despite Trump having zero control regarding what Cuomo did, yes?

    So it's funny people are saying this is a Trump fault. Yes, because Trump killed 200k people. Trump went to NY, told Cuomo to send COVID patients to nursing homes to rehabilitate, and then Trump also told people to go out and protest by the thousands in BLM protests. Each state has a local government that can control how far they want to lock their economy up. Case in point, Florida chose to open up Disney World while California chose to shut down Disney Land. Trump has no say in that. If Florida's death count goes up because of them choosing to open up Disney World, that's on Florida - not Trump. Executive powers don't trump state powers in terms of how their economy runs. That's why state taxes is a state issue. Trump doesn't tell Florida to charge no state income tax - that's on Florida. Does that mean Trump deserves no blame? Nope, he does. Any time you're the president and there are 200k deaths, it's a bad look. Not choosing to push for all states to wear mask is a dumb decision by Trump. His early statements stating that COVID will go away and that it's like the flu was also inappropriate. But states are also to blame. Many people who choose to go outside and not wear a mask, they are to blame as well. Let's stop acting like ONE PERSON is really responsible for all these deaths. Of course, it's much easier to just say it is Trump's fault so if that is the stance people want to take, I won't argue with it.
    All of this is true. Unfortunately Trump stands at the top of the heap as the leader so he takes the fall.

    He could have done better, he could have done worse. No guarantee BO could have done any better but he would have looked better doing whatever he would have done. No guarantee Haris could have done any better

    Not fair. But that is how it goes.

  2. #14732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    All of this is true. Unfortunately Trump stands at the top of the heap as the leader so he takes the fall.

    He could have done better, he could have done worse. No guarantee BO could have done any better but he would have looked better doing whatever he would have done. No guarantee Haris could have done any better

    Not fair. But that is how it goes.
    I agree, it's not fair. And I do blame Trump for a lot of the COVID blunders. At the end of the day, you're president. You had the ability to stock up PPE after Obama liquidated the inventory. But from a logical approach, pinning it all on Trump is just a really terrible take if it's based off a sequence of events on what actually happened. But yes, Trump deserves and should be blamed for some of it.

  3. #14733
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    He knew early- did nothing
    Once we knew- played it down

    Even WITH that, he wouldn't be getting as much blame....if he'd allowed a plan to be formed and helped institute it, a plan that helped the country feel like there was an end in sight, instead of still today saying 'that's all they can talk about is Covid Covid Covid...we're doing great'...when that's quite obviously not the case.

    It may not be fair to place AS much blame on him as some do...but it's most DEFINITELY fair to place more blame on him than Trumpublicans do.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  4. #14734
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    It’s where the buck stops, as Truman said, and that’s as fair as it is going to get — taking the bitter as well as the sweet.

  5. #14735
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    He knew early- did nothing
    Once we knew- played it down

    Even WITH that, he wouldn't be getting as much blame....if he'd allowed a plan to be formed and helped institute it, a plan that helped the country feel like there was an end in sight, instead of still today saying 'that's all they can talk about is Covid Covid Covid...we're doing great'...when that's quite obviously not the case.

    It may not be fair to place AS much blame on him as some do...but it's most DEFINITELY fair to place more blame on him than Trumpublicans do.
    The idea that he knew early is false. Did he know of COVID attacking China? Yes. But the thing is, China didn't let the world know of how deadly it was. You have to remember that China refused to allow European and U.S. CDC to investigate very early on. So while we did know of the illness, people weren't sure of the extent of how deadly it was. China misled the world. If they had allowed the transfer of info and investigation early on, the world would have been better prepared. Look, Trump is at fault. But this is one crazy virus that every country has had to deal with in a harsh and unfavorable way. This isn't a bi-partisan issue. Trump handled it badly but many parties also did as well - including the CDC for claiming surgical masks would not help. They didn't know people could be ASYMPTOMATIC and to not wear surgical masks out of fear that people would hoard them. Who's to blame? Depends on how much you hate Trump, really.

  6. #14736
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    I’m treating this as an admission that KellyAnne Conway was Anonymous until we hear otherwise.


  7. #14737
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    every time I see her name all I can think of is her comment a few months ago while still at the White House

    "This is Covid-19 folks, not Covid-1"
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  8. #14738
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I’m treating this as an admission that KellyAnne Conway was Anonymous until we hear otherwise.

    The important question is if you know how the electoral college system works.

  9. #14739
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    The idea that he knew early is false. Did he know of COVID attacking China? Yes. But the thing is, China didn't let the world know of how deadly it was. You have to remember that China refused to allow European and U.S. CDC to investigate very early on. So while we did know of the illness, people weren't sure of the extent of how deadly it was. China misled the world. If they had allowed the transfer of info and investigation early on, the world would have been better prepared. Look, Trump is at fault. But this is one crazy virus that every country has had to deal with in a harsh and unfavorable way. This isn't a bi-partisan issue. Trump handled it badly but many parties also did as well - including the CDC for claiming surgical masks would not help. They didn't know people could be ASYMPTOMATIC and to not wear surgical masks out of fear that people would hoard them. Who's to blame? Depends on how much you hate Trump, really.
    It not solely being on Trump is true and fine. The idea he didn't know early as the POTUS and given some of the reports/what we know now seems kind of ridiculous.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54094559
    Here covers what Woodward wrote about Trump calling this deadly back in February supposedly before the first reported death in the US. It's worse than the flu etc. in the quotes. Trump's tweet doesn't deny anything, he says those were proper answers. The issue is that he wasn't presenting the information as such for a long time nor making plans as if it was the case. He has even talked about deliberately downplaying it himself as well.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/latest-...virus-pandemic
    "I wanted to always play it down," the president said in a March interview, the audio recording of which was made public in September. "I still like playing it down, because I don't want to create a panic."
    That's an example of him admitting what he has done all along.

    "It's going to disappear. One day — it's like a miracle — it will disappear," Trump said. "And from our shores, we — you know, it could get worse before it gets better. It could maybe go away. We'll see what happens. Nobody really knows."

    When the CDC made its initial recommendation that people wear cloth or fabric face coverings, Trump said it was going to be "really, a voluntary thing" and emphasized that he would not do it.

    "You can do it. You don't have to do it. I'm choosing not to do it, but some people may want to do it, and that's OK. It may be good. Probably will. They're making a recommendation. It's only a recommendation," Trump said.

    It notes he didn't wear a mask publicly until July.

    We have seen so much coming from him and it is very clear a portion of his base has been running with some extreme stuff in response as well. Obviously he can't be blamed for everything but he has not taken this seriously and even quite clearly been downplaying the issue for a long time despite how big of an issue it clearly is.

  10. #14740
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    It not solely being on Trump is true and fine. The idea he didn't know early as the POTUS and given some of the reports/what we know now seems kind of ridiculous.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54094559
    Here covers what Woodward wrote about Trump calling this deadly back in February supposedly before the first reported death in the US. It's worse than the flu etc. in the quotes. Trump's tweet doesn't deny anything, he says those were proper answers. The issue is that he wasn't presenting the information as such for a long time nor making plans as if it was the case. He has even talked about deliberately downplaying it himself as well.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/latest-...virus-pandemic
    "I wanted to always play it down," the president said in a March interview, the audio recording of which was made public in September. "I still like playing it down, because I don't want to create a panic."
    That's an example of him admitting what he has done all along.

    "It's going to disappear. One day — it's like a miracle — it will disappear," Trump said. "And from our shores, we — you know, it could get worse before it gets better. It could maybe go away. We'll see what happens. Nobody really knows."

    When the CDC made its initial recommendation that people wear cloth or fabric face coverings, Trump said it was going to be "really, a voluntary thing" and emphasized that he would not do it.

    "You can do it. You don't have to do it. I'm choosing not to do it, but some people may want to do it, and that's OK. It may be good. Probably will. They're making a recommendation. It's only a recommendation," Trump said.

    It notes he didn't wear a mask publicly until July.

    We have seen so much coming from him and it is very clear a portion of his base has been running with some extreme stuff in response as well. Obviously he can't be blamed for everything but he has not taken this seriously and even quite clearly been downplaying the issue for a long time despite how big of an issue it clearly is.
    Like I said, how much of the blame you want to put on a Trump is also aligned with how much someone dislikes or likes him. There are conflicting stories but yes, I do agree that Trump's stance on downplaying it early on was inappropriate. My response in which you quoted me for was in response to Trump knowing how deadly it was early on (because this was being reported in January way before USA was nationally notified of it). China knew and downplayed the entire thing early on. If they were more open about it, every country, not just USA, would have been better prepared. China didn't do that.

  11. #14741
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    this is my prediction for the 2020 election.

    I think Joe Biden wins, but that it will be close.

    because it's going to be close, Trump is going to be triggered. Trump is going to question the results, do anything he can legally to challenge the results.

    I think an important factor is going to be turnout. the more people that vote the more chance Joe Biden has of winning. I think there could even be an overwhelming defeat of Trump.

    I would like Trump to win and certainly think he has a chance, but if I'm betting I would say Joe Biden wins.
    Hey, it’s something we agree on. I think Biden’s gonna win and Trump’s gonna do whatever he can to challenge the outcome.

    I think think Trump will get maybe 35-45 million votes while Biden is around 70-80 million...just my guess.

    0 chance there’s a peaceful transition of power unless Trump gets blown out of the water.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If Trump can become president with no political background then I don't understand why I need a resumé

  12. #14742
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    Hey, it’s something we agree on. I think Biden’s gonna win and Trump’s gonna do whatever he can to challenge the outcome.

    I think think Trump will get maybe 35-45 million votes while Biden is around 70-80 million...just my guess.

    0 chance there’s a peaceful transition of power unless Trump gets blown out of the water.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I don't even know how it will be contested. This election cycle is just so fcked up. Will it end on Nov 3rd or will counting the votes prolong weeks further? Too confusing for the average person to follow up on. I just hope whoever is president does right by the country and doesn't get pressured to push terrible policies.

  13. #14743
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I’m treating this as an admission that KellyAnne Conway was Anonymous until we hear otherwise.
    For sure. How could those 2 remain married if it wasn't her?
    <><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
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    <><><><>

  14. #14744
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanSpray View Post
    Like I said, how much of the blame you want to put on a Trump is also aligned with how much someone dislikes or likes him. There are conflicting stories but yes, I do agree that Trump's stance on downplaying it early on was inappropriate. My response in which you quoted me for was in response to Trump knowing how deadly it was early on (because this was being reported in January way before USA was nationally notified of it). China knew and downplayed the entire thing early on. If they were more open about it, every country, not just USA, would have been better prepared. China didn't do that.
    Not at all, many people are capable of looking at all of the information and basing it off of that. His extreme followers and extreme haters? Sure, they will always take that type of approach though. It's like all the credit some gave him or denied him on the economy because of the context around it and him riding a good economy in. Some can also approach that situation with nuance and admit some truth to each.

    Overall he has known it was deadly for a very long time, whether he knew in January changes almost nothing given his approach once he actually did know. What would he have done then? Started this rhetoric a few weeks earlier? If he had been taking it seriously from the start or even sometime in the middle it would be different but he has downplayed it throughout, used it to divide and made it overly political in multiple ways instead of focusing on helping the country do what is needed to slow the spread and be as safe as possible for everyone without too much damage. Other countries definitely may have been more prepared if China had been more open about it but that isn't the main issue with Trump (except for those trying to not place blame on him because they like him of course).

  15. #14745
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    https://youtu.be/2zLfBRgeFFo

    Here is the interview. I didn’t hear anything damning or even an accusation. This guy is mad bc he feels he was painted as an instrument of Russian disinformation. He never says Joe took money for setting up a govt contract or did anything.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Sounds like a smoking gun to me.

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