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  1. #8386
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    The special thing is that Bernie has essentially zero (I won't say zero because he COULD win 2/3 of the remaining delegates) of winning the nomination. He is wasting everyone's time and giving his supporters the dishonest impression that he is somehow going to walk away from the remaining races the nominee of the party.
    That kind of reminds me of Warren before Super Tuesday.


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  2. #8387
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerSL View Post
    I'm sorry, but how exactly does Bernie staying in the race "cause trouble"? Bernie represents a sizable chunk of the democratic electorate and is the face of the progressive movement, you can't expect him to just pack up and go home. His supporters care very much about his policy proposals and his platform, and they deserve to have their voices heard.

    What they do not deserve, is to be told to shut up and vote blue no matter who because the alternative is worse. Biden can't sit up there and say he would veto M4A if it passed both chambers of Congress or float Jamie Dimon/Mike Bloomberg for banking positions and expect Bernie's supporters to just fall in line. I understand very well that Biden has consolidated a majority of the democratic electorate, but the democratic electorate is extremely broad in race, class, gender, and in ideology. Biden said last night his goal was to unite the Democratic Party, I will hold him to that. If he wants to successfully unite the party, he needs the progressive movement and he cannot reasonably expect the progressive movement to get behind him when he wants to create the same failed system that got Trump elected in the first place, New Democratic Neoliberalism. He can go down the same road as Hillary and run as the centrist candidate (the most centrist candidate has lost the last 5 general elections) or throw the progressives a bone to unite the party. He would obviously be a better President than Trump, but that is an astonishingly low bar. It has to be more than just beating Trump, so it's up to him to earn the progressive vote. For everyone's sake I hope he does, but I'm waiting.
    Agree, we need to end neoliberalism as well as Trump. I don't see Biden giving up his support for neoliberalism judging by his wish list for cabinet members.

  3. #8388
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Not further dividing the party and giving Biden space to coalesce the party. Last time he dropped out in late July. That gave Hillary not very long to do the same. This would give Biden nearly four more month when the outcome is all but certain. Last time I ran the numbers and Bernie needed a rounding error less than 60% in order to clinch the nomination. That number has now risen to 67% of the remaining delegates while it is 50.5% for Biden. One of those is a reasonable number to obtain with the remaining races meanwhile the other is held by Sanders (hint hint).

    Of the remaining states, the largest delegate hauls are: Wisconsin (84), New York (274), Pennsylvania (186), Indiana (82), Georgia (105), Maryland (96), New Jersey (126), Ohio (136). Now tell me which of those states you see Bernie pulling off a win that holds Joe out of 15%, since that's what it's going to take to make up the required 2/3 of the remaining delegates to win.
    You are completely wrong. I want to say in advance that I voted for Hillary Clinton, but you are blaming Bernie for Hillary's loss in 2016 and her loss had absolutely nothing to do with him, she lost because she was an absolutely terrible candidate who was almost as corrupt as Trump said. You say him not dropping out in 2016 didn't give her time to unite the party, well explain to me how she ever tried to do that? Was it when she took over all operations at the DNC and announced the Hillary Victory Fund in August 2015 (almost 5 months before anyone voted)? Was it when she hired Debbie Wasserman Schultz to her campaign after Schultz resigned from the DNC in disgrace for rigging it for Hillary? Was it when Donna Brazile leaked her debate/town hall questions in advance? Was it when Super Delegates gave her "enough delegates to win the nomination" right before California and other states voted on June 2nd? I'm having a hard time remembering when she ever tried to unite the party.

    Bernie dropped out and endorsed Hillary two weeks before the convention. The convention was four months before the general. She had more than enough time to do things differently and he had time to do 39 rallies for her (more than 3 times the rallies she did for Obama in 2008). More of his supporters voted for her in 2016 than her supporters voted for Obama in 08. He did his job in getting his base to back her, she would have been President had she taken a few trips to Wisconsin, Michigan, or Pennsylvania or picked a VP that would have actually brought excitement to the ticket. She did none of those things and that's exactly what gave us Trump. Her ineptitude gave us Donald Trump.

    After last night, it's probable Bernie is not going to win. But he can play a big role in shaping the convention and the party platform by winning as many delegates as he can. He doesn't have to attack Joe Biden going forward, but instead push his policy proposals which have overwhelming support among Democratic voters. Joe Biden would do well to adopt more of them and him doing that would be a big olive branch to Bernie's base. Something he's going to need if he is to beat Trump in November. Hopefully Joe Biden and the rest of the democratic party do not make the same fatal errors that Hillary Clinton made in 2016. Trump really needs to get removed from office, but Biden needs to embrace the progressives not give them ultimatums like Hillary.
    Last edited by TylerSL; 03-18-2020 at 02:07 PM.

  4. #8389
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Well she is actually. Not a great person. I really do not like her at all. But she’s been a great politician in DC.
    A great politician who has helped lose ~1000 dem seats country wide.

  5. #8390
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlakeyFool View Post
    A great politician who has helped lose ~1000 dem seats country wide.
    How do you attribute those loses to her? What metric are you using?
    Prior to 11/1/19: if you were on my ignore list, I was sticking to ignoring you thanks to great advise.
    From 11/1/19 on: I will no longer be responding to comments back to people on my ignore list.
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  6. #8391
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    How do you attribute those loses to her? What metric are you using?
    I guess you blame the voters who didn't support and voted for these democrats who was following her leadship?
    Last edited by WES445; 03-18-2020 at 03:03 PM.

  7. #8392
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    I guess you blame the voters who didn't support and voted for them?
    I didn't say I blamed anyone or even disagreed with Flakey. I am just asking how he came to the conclusion that she was to blame?
    Prior to 11/1/19: if you were on my ignore list, I was sticking to ignoring you thanks to great advise.
    From 11/1/19 on: I will no longer be responding to comments back to people on my ignore list.
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  8. #8393
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I didn't say I blamed anyone or even disagreed with Flakey. I am just asking how he came to the conclusion that she was to blame?
    I believe as he does, but I admit, that is due to blaming the leader for the team defeat. Fair or not, coaches and generals get blamed for failure, even if they couldn't control the environment surrounding that defeat. Let's just say the Democrats couldn't sell their agenda to the American people under her and the DNC leadership, as well as the republican, did at that time
    Last edited by WES445; 03-18-2020 at 03:56 PM.

  9. #8394
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    voters have the right to toss out members or a party from power if they have no faith in their ability to represent them. She being one of the party leaders gets the blame for setting the agenda that cause her party to lose the leadership of the house.
    Ok and I don't disagree with you there. BUT he said 1000 seats that got lost. Now I'm just an ordinary IT worker but there aren't 1000 seats in either chamber or combined between the House and Senate. So that means we're talking about far more than just the House. That's the gap that I'm trying to resolve.
    Prior to 11/1/19: if you were on my ignore list, I was sticking to ignoring you thanks to great advise.
    From 11/1/19 on: I will no longer be responding to comments back to people on my ignore list.
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  10. #8395
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Ok and I don't disagree with you there. BUT he said 1000 seats that got lost. Now I'm just an ordinary IT worker but there aren't 1000 seats in either chamber or combined between the House and Senate. So that means we're talking about far more than just the House. That's the gap that I'm trying to resolve.
    State seats, from governors down to legislators? Not that the blame for state results should be place on her alone, but I suppose there is some effect. And he did say “helped”.

  11. #8396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    State seats, from governors down to legislators? Not that the blame for state results should be place on her alone, but I suppose there is some effect. And he did say “helped”.
    You are right and DBroncos have room to complain about a generalized statement. I have a bad habit of working on a posted post.

    But I will extend that to the DNC and Democrat leadership as well as not being able to sell their agenda as well as the republicans at that time.

    I will not amend posted post in the future, at least I will try.

  12. #8397
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Ok and I don't disagree with you there. BUT he said 1000 seats that got lost. Now I'm just an ordinary IT worker but there aren't 1000 seats in either chamber or combined between the House and Senate. So that means we're talking about far more than just the House. That's the gap that I'm trying to resolve.
    Sorry, you are right to complain about a generalized statement, I hope the changes I made reflect my apologies.

  13. #8398
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Sorry, you are right to complain about a generalized statement, I hope the changes I made reflect my apologies.
    And like I said, removing my sarcasm; I don’t think it’s an unfair argument that is being made. Someone in the Democratic Party leadership does likely bear some blame. But I obviously would disagree to the extent.

  14. #8399
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    How do you attribute those loses to her? What metric are you using?
    Pelosi is 100% responsible for state legislative losses in Wisconsin and Michigan this past decade, duh.

  15. #8400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_White View Post
    Pelosi is 100% responsible for state legislative losses in Wisconsin and Michigan this past decade, duh.
    How so?
    Prior to 11/1/19: if you were on my ignore list, I was sticking to ignoring you thanks to great advise.
    From 11/1/19 on: I will no longer be responding to comments back to people on my ignore list.
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