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  1. #4891
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    On the Bolivia front, as a Bolivian, there is little US influence there. Bolivia approaches politics more like sport than any country in the world. People in his own party called for Morales to not run for re-election and for him to step down. IIRC every president of Bolivia has resigned from office since 1997. Politics there is always crazy. So crazy supposedly there was a board game called "Junta" created to celebrate the insanity.

  2. #4892
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    On the Bolivia front, as a Bolivian, there is little US influence there. Bolivia approaches politics more like sport than any country in the world. People in his own party called for Morales to not run for re-election and for him to step down. IIRC every president of Bolivia has resigned from office since 1997. Politics there is always crazy. So crazy supposedly there was a board game called "Junta" created to celebrate the insanity.
    I'm not going to dive much deeper because none of us are experts. I just think Sanders, when he speaks on these issues, says the right things. He shows solidarity with the right people, he doesn't play ignorant when it comes to our history in the region and he is more vehemently outspoken against the right-wing leadership that we seem to always support. It's just another small example of the clear difference between the two, and that was my only point.

    We've helped or attempted to overthrow (to varying degrees) every leftist/left-of-center government in the region for as long as anyone here can remember. How about we don't? And there's one person I trust more than the rest to overhaul our foreign policy in central and south america. It ain't Warren, because she never talks about it. That's all I'm trying to convey now.

    Though, I definitely think it was a coup. Rather, it was a coup.
    Hello there! Welcome to ManRam v8.00.
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  3. #4893
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    My buddy from college was in the Young Republicans group. Went on to work for Pataki, then the McCain campaign. Reluctantly Voted Trump in 2016 because he hated Hillary.

    He just told me that he and his whole young republican alumni group are changing their party affiliation so they can vote for Bloomberg in the primary. ďHeís the only one on either side who knows how to save our economic future.Ē They are also pushing an RNC petition to open the primary. Heís a big Romney supporter.

    None of this really matters for political implications, but itís another sign of how crazy our political climate is now. Thinking of how clear cut the 04 and 08 elections were compared to now....so crazy

  4. #4894
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    I love Willard!

    Prior to 11/1/19: if you were on my ignore list, I was sticking to ignoring you thanks to great advise.
    From 11/1/19 on: I will no longer be responding to comments back to people on my ignore list.
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    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!


  5. #4895
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    I'm not going to dive much deeper because none of us are experts. I just think Sanders, when he speaks on these issues, says the right things. He shows solidarity with the right people, he doesn't play ignorant when it comes to our history in the region and he is more vehemently outspoken against the right-wing leadership that we seem to always support. It's just another small example of the clear difference between the two, and that was my only point.

    We've helped or attempted to overthrow (to varying degrees) every leftist/left-of-center government in the region for as long as anyone here can remember. How about we don't? And there's one person I trust more than the rest to overhaul our foreign policy in central and south america. It ain't Warren, because she never talks about it. That's all I'm trying to convey now.

    Though, I definitely think it was a coup. Rather, it was a coup.
    Sanders was my pick in 2016 just because our choices were so bad. Now, he's to far gone socialist for me compared to other candidates. I'm going to vote Yang in the primary ... which I know will be a "wasted" vote.

    It's impossible to tell what is and isn't a coup in Bolivia, but basically everyone in Morales' party resigned so it follows that someone not in his (left) party is the one that takes over. How long it lasts and how fast they setup a new election will be telling.

    FWIW, Morales' party sponsored a referendum to allow him to run for President again in 2016 and lost, he ran anyhow, and there were protests in the streets about him doing that. It's not exactly one sided.

    Morales was president during a time when blatant corruption did decrease, but it's hard to tell if that was him or other factors. One thing is sure, whoever gets the job next will also have people protesting from day 1. It's Bolivia.

  6. #4896
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    My buddy from college was in the Young Republicans group. Went on to work for Pataki, then the McCain campaign. Reluctantly Voted Trump in 2016 because he hated Hillary.

    He just told me that he and his whole young republican alumni group are changing their party affiliation so they can vote for Bloomberg in the primary. ďHeís the only one on either side who knows how to save our economic future.Ē They are also pushing an RNC petition to open the primary. Heís a big Romney supporter.

    None of this really matters for political implications, but itís another sign of how crazy our political climate is now. Thinking of how clear cut the 04 and 08 elections were compared to now....so crazy
    I've also heard some people in colleges have flipped to the right, not because of Trump, but because of the constant message that people are evil from the left.

    It's a twisted time when the ideologies of liberalism and conservatism have been lost in hate and winning.

  7. #4897
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    On Bolivia found this interesting about public issues with Morales:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...-a-fourth-term

    One of the long term issues with South American politics is the incumbent wins, often by wide margins, and often against what the public seems to think should be the outcome. The US has offered to help referee fair elections and are, of course, always turned down. This has always seemed like a good place for the UN to step up, but they seems to always fail to do so.

  8. #4898
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Sanders was my pick in 2016 just because our choices were so bad. Now, he's to far gone socialist for me compared to other candidates. I'm going to vote Yang in the primary ... which I know will be a "wasted" vote.

    It's impossible to tell what is and isn't a coup in Bolivia, but basically everyone in Morales' party resigned so it follows that someone not in his (left) party is the one that takes over. How long it lasts and how fast they setup a new election will be telling.

    FWIW, Morales' party sponsored a referendum to allow him to run for President again in 2016 and lost, he ran anyhow, and there were protests in the streets about him doing that. It's not exactly one sided.

    Morales was president during a time when blatant corruption did decrease, but it's hard to tell if that was him or other factors. One thing is sure, whoever gets the job next will also have people protesting from day 1. It's Bolivia.
    Saying heís a socialist is always amusing. Because he, and pretty much the rest of the Democrats running, donít actually have much actual socialism in their platform.

  9. #4899
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    https://www.businessinsider.com/each...d-buttigieg-15

    So you're telling me that no one likes Marianne Williamson and Tulsi Gabbard with extra steps.

  10. #4900
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Heís a big Romney supporter
    Those actually exist? Romney, the draft dodger, who loves war as much as McCain?
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  11. #4901
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Saying heís a socialist is always amusing. Because he, and pretty much the rest of the Democrats running, donít actually have much actual socialism in their platform.
    Sanders was a hard core socialist decades ago, and I don't believe it's gone. Just him, not the others.

  12. #4902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Sanders was a hard core socialist decades ago, and I don't believe it's gone. Just him, not the others.
    Like the people on the other side who use it as an attack, I donít think he truly knows what a socialist is and doesnít advocate for a whole lot of socialism. Weíve all kind of just apparently agreed that government paid health care is socialism. But itís not. In no stretch of the word.

  13. #4903
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I've also heard some people in colleges have flipped to the right, not because of Trump, but because of the constant message that people are evil from the left.

    It's a twisted time when the ideologies of liberalism and conservatism have been lost in hate and winning.
    Yeah I read something similar a few months ago, think it was in NYT, about how all the censorship and safe space left is pushing more people to the center and right.

    But then you drift too far into Trump alt right whackadoo land and itís no better.

    Weíve got a crazy left, a crazy right and a corrupt middle. Viva la revolucion


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  14. #4904
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomass View Post
    Those actually exist? Romney, the draft dodger, who loves war as much as McCain?
    Most of the traditional republicans I know are wishing for an open primary and Romney to take over.


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  15. #4905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Sanders was a hard core socialist decades ago, and I don't believe it's gone. Just him, not the others.
    Kinda. I mean from a traditional global perspective thereís nothing socialist about his proposals. In fact itís right in line with New Deal era politics. If it were the 40ís heíd be a Roosevelt Democrat.

    I think it says a lot about how far to the right our politics are now after Reagan era economics and Clinton governing like a dem while being right of center. Some social moves to the left like marriage equality but thatís about it.

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