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  1. #2026
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Maybe it maybe not. Either way, you should try to reach as many people as possible.


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    There are plenty of ways to reach out to new voters without giving Fox a bailout on their ad problems.

  2. #2027
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    There are plenty of ways to reach out to new voters without giving Fox a bailout on their ad problems.
    So democrats should not appear on fox and republicans should not appear on msnbc and we can all live in our own bubbles.


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  3. #2028
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    I’m starting to like this guy and hope he gets a spot on the debate stage:




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  4. #2029
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    So democrats should not appear on fox and republicans should not appear on msnbc and we can all live in our own bubbles.


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    Yep. I don't understand DB's stance on this.

    I hate CNN and MSNBC as much as the next conservative, but I'd be all for republican candidates going on their broadcasts to spread their message.
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  5. #2030
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Did you “I know you are but what am I” the thin skinned comment? This is the real danger with trump defenders. You call Trump corrupt and the response is “well so is everyone else”. Call him aggressive “so is the left”, etc. All to create an illusion that it’s somehow to the same degree.

    I honestly don’t know what’s left to debate. The blatant horribleness of this president couldn’t be more apparent. And it’s not partisanship. It’s common decency and respect that shouldn’t even have to be debated.

    If you like his politics then fine, it’s a matter of political beliefs. But this man is an embarrassment and a terrible leader. Pointing out flaws in W and Obama doesn’t make Trump any better and Trumps flaws are so monumentally worse than his predecessors.
    Good Grief Man. Firstly, nowhere in there did I say I "Like" his politics. I'm offering you perspective on how I believe Trump appeals to people and what's important to them. Your life experiences and perspectives are clearly different than mine. I do not think the average supporter "likes" him, they like the fact they feel like they are getting results for things they've wanted. From what I've seen I don't think the Left is able to separate the two.

    But in either case since you touched on it again......you originally brought up W and Obama as strong leaders as examples as to why Trump is a bad leader. So I ask why you laud them as strong leaders when you also admit you don't really support them as Presidents and that it may be more of a partisan issue because both of them were mocked by the other side for being weak leaders..........so now it's not fair to mention them?

    And I'm not playing the gotcha game on The Who's supposed to be the bigger person and not be mean. Do I care for Trump's personality and style? No. Do I wish he would have started out a couple years ago doing things differently from that perspective? Of course. But try to lean towards some objectivity here....why is it not OK to pose the point that the Left is so wrapped up in hating him that they have no ability to do the same? It seems OK for the left to run with the theme of "well he started it" so we are entitled to shut down and not do a thing and serves him right because he's mean. If the left really wants to make him look bad for that then their leadership should actually show some leadership and go on a public stage and rise above it....yet they don't. There is opportunity for both sides to the right thing and it doesn't happen. As flawed as people believe Trump is there are also deep flaws with the Schumers, Waters and Pelosi crowd for sure. That doesn't excuse Trump by bringing that up.....but it's also not just him.

  6. #2031
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    I’m starting to like this guy and hope he gets a spot on the debate stage:




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    I donated a few weeks ago. Getting on the stage would be absolutely wonderful. A more aggressive Bernie with nothing to lose. Unleash him!! I'm all for anyone standing up there and holding people accountable for their past actions.

    He's a little kooky at times (I believe he is/was a 9/11 truther etc.), and something has always felt off about the Gravel teens essentially learning about him because of a podcast they listened to, convincing him to run and then running his campaign. But I've listened to them on a few podcasts now and they're not terrible. And they have some bizarre chemistry, considering their 70 year age gap.
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  7. #2032
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Haha and right on queue, Trump was just in the Rose Garden saying he won’t work with Democrats.

    Gee what a strong leader.
    nothing changes what I have already said, how do you lead anyone that refuses to agree on anything. these Democrats are also not really wanting to work with Trump, which is why Pelosi came out and said what she did just hours before the meeting.

    the anti-Trump movement seems to be getting dumber

  8. #2033
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    nothing changes what I have already said, how do you lead anyone that refuses to agree on anything. these Democrats are also not really wanting to work with Trump, which is why Pelosi came out and said what she did just hours before the meeting.
    Wrong. They were ready to do infrastructure. The deal maker backed out.

    Is pelosi not allowed to be critical of the president? It's not like he calls people childish names and criticizes any one who disagrees with him.

  9. #2034
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    Yep. I don't understand DB's stance on this.

    I hate CNN and MSNBC as much as the next conservative, but I'd be all for republican candidates going on their broadcasts to spread their message.
    And I’d love to hear it. I’m a progressive but I still watch all debates and town halls, and there’s been plenty of GOP candidates in the past that I’ve opened up to after seeing them in that format.

    If we’re not talking between the bubbles then it truly is hopeless.


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  10. #2035
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    Yep. I don't understand DB's stance on this.

    I hate CNN and MSNBC as much as the next conservative, but I'd be all for republican candidates going on their broadcasts to spread their message.
    It's a waste of time. Looking back, what has he accomplished? He went on the network and answered some questions, which the other hosts on the network proceed to twist and distort to attack him. He could have gone on neutral ground and they could have done the same thing and then Fox wouldn't have gotten an ad boost to try to convince fleeing advertisers that they aren't so dangerous. The only group helped by Pete's actions is Fox News.
    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!


  11. #2036
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatch View Post
    Good Grief Man. Firstly, nowhere in there did I say I "Like" his politics. I'm offering you perspective on how I believe Trump appeals to people and what's important to them. Your life experiences and perspectives are clearly different than mine. I do not think the average supporter "likes" him, they like the fact they feel like they are getting results for things they've wanted. From what I've seen I don't think the Left is able to separate the two.

    But in either case since you touched on it again......you originally brought up W and Obama as strong leaders as examples as to why Trump is a bad leader. So I ask why you laud them as strong leaders when you also admit you don't really support them as Presidents and that it may be more of a partisan issue because both of them were mocked by the other side for being weak leaders..........so now it's not fair to mention them?

    And I'm not playing the gotcha game on The Who's supposed to be the bigger person and not be mean. Do I care for Trump's personality and style? No. Do I wish he would have started out a couple years ago doing things differently from that perspective? Of course. But try to lean towards some objectivity here....why is it not OK to pose the point that the Left is so wrapped up in hating him that they have no ability to do the same? It seems OK for the left to run with the theme of "well he started it" so we are entitled to shut down and not do a thing and serves him right because he's mean. If the left really wants to make him look bad for that then their leadership should actually show some leadership and go on a public stage and rise above it....yet they don't. There is opportunity for both sides to the right thing and it doesn't happen. As flawed as people believe Trump is there are also deep flaws with the Schumers, Waters and Pelosi crowd for sure. That doesn't excuse Trump by bringing that up.....but it's also not just him.
    Because you can be a good leader that I disagree with and don’t support. They committed acts that completely lost my support, but as a general leader I never felt unsafe or unsure under their presidencies. We currently have an unprofessional, unqualified and horrible leader that is far worse than his predecessors.

    There are plenty of blind haters on the left. I have no problem complimenting him when he does something I agree with (Meeting With Kim, some of his pardons, his focus on infrastructure improvements). It doesn’t change the disastrous lack of leadership and tact.

    I find it sad that our standards have been lowered even further than our usual politician disdain and that some people are willing to be open to a disgrace of a president like this guy.

  12. #2037
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    It's kinda funny you bring up athletes when this is what it is now, a sports game where one team needs to win. You need to beat the other side into submission now with this mentality. It really does fit with your whole description of Trump, he is fighting really hard for one of the teams in certain areas at least and they like it. Who cares if he attacks half the country while doing so his team is winning in their minds now due to him so he is good despite individually they can clearly see he is a pretty bad person you wouldn't want your kids mirroring or learning from etc.

    What you have been describing is the team game approach and just attacking sides and having different standards for one (in group) and the other is just going extreme (outgroup, see your comment on the left above). The strategy against Obama was block block block anything no compromise... Is it any surprise that continues and has now happened the other way with someone like Trump constantly attacking the dems and so on? The reasoning isn't one of the teams is bad it is that everyone is just screaming to get what they want at any expense even if it means electing someone they generally can see as a poor individual. Until we get back to electing actual leaders instead of the athletes who can win for our team by playing the best games against the other team it won't change... er I mean candidates and parties not athletes/teams sorry.

    The right had not been weak they have been willing to compromise with the left and vice versa. It doesn't make you stronger to attack others (especially via lying and without validity) it often actually exposes many weaknesses of said individuals as we see with Trump. That has all changed with this mentality though for sure (you can go into the 90's and see the cable news and even certain politicians clearly taking this team approach too and how it has been picking up steam since again think of the approach against Obama so it was showing pre Trump).

    If we elect people who want to help the country out the most as a whole instead of who wants to attack the other team/win for their team the most at all costs then maybe we won't get two sides fighting to constantly just to "win" and instead some sort of negotiation on how to actually improve things for everyone (which would be a real win for the country, not a partisan win for some until 4 years later when we swing back etc. rinse repeat).
    Unfortunately the unified, good for sides team approach works only in a vacuum today. The left and right have become so far apart that a true middle ground can hardly be visible over the horizon by either side. Social media is probably the worst thing to come to politics as we become a headline driven society bent on shock and awe for attention. Myself, I tend to separate the shock posts on both sides from what is actually going on. So admittedly I don't get all spun up on Trump's tweets and rhetoric just the same as I don't go full blown meltdown every time someone from the left says something colossally stupid. It's white noise on both sides and only serves to grab daily hits.

    Pointing out reasons why Trump has support for what he's doing isn't a blind admonition that he's a wonderful person or that we'd prefer he be more of a complete package in the ideal definition of a president. But in broad terms he's no different than most presidents. Perhaps others have had more congenial, bi partisan personalities.....but also had flaws in areas where Trump has been better. ( I know, I know....."where has this clown been better" right?)......but to be fair he's executed his campaign promises better than most.

    So yes, I can see where Trump certainly draws the ire and is a magnet for criticism of the personality of leadership. But at the same time I honestly don't feel this is a Trump Alone issue. I think the current pool of the Left's top crowd are painfully weak. I'm not hard core opposed to the Left I just think their current group of leaders is a disaster. I can be a lot more interested in someone outside of the career politician mold to step in and challenge. But again, as the gap widens further and further on agreement it's hard to imagine anything in the near future that isn't done by the Golden State method and stacking the deck.....just to keep it sports related for ya.

  13. #2038
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Powders View Post
    Wrong. They were ready to do infrastructure. The deal maker backed out.

    Is pelosi not allowed to be critical of the president? It's not like he calls people childish names and criticizes any one who disagrees with him.
    do you honestly believe Schumer and Pelosi were seriously interested in doing infrastructure? this is naive.

    if they really wanted to work with Trump then why did Pelosi just hours before come out with some stunt about a cover up. that is not what should be done before a meeting that should be bipartisan.

    if they really wanted to work with Trump then this article that I already posted would have never happened.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...infrastructure
    Democrats wary of handing Trump a win on infrastructure
    Democrats are growing skeptical about working with President Trump on an infrastructure deal, fearing it would help him score political points as he campaigns for reelection.
    the number 1 thing that Democrats care about over anything else is beating Trump, whether that is pushing for impeachment or the 2020 election.






    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    It's a waste of time. Looking back, what has he accomplished? He went on the network and answered some questions, which the other hosts on the network proceed to twist and distort to attack him. He could have gone on neutral ground and they could have done the same thing and then Fox wouldn't have gotten an ad boost to try to convince fleeing advertisers that they aren't so dangerous. The only group helped by Pete's actions is Fox News.

    this is not true. Fox News viewers (just like CNN/MSNBC viewers) are not just one sided. there are a lot of independent voters that will watch certain media. seeing how Fox News has continued to be #1 in ratings one would have to think there must be a good amount of independent or even anti Trump viewers.

    the anti-Trump movement seems to be getting dumber

  14. #2039
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    The more I watch the current state of political affairs play out, the more I am convinced that the United States has evolved into a one-party rule (maybe it always was that way, but I was not discerning enough to see it for what it is).

    As someone pointed out in the “Iran” thread, both parties are essentially culpable for America’s post-WWII imperialistic trajectory.

    True, and that got me to thinking.

    Since Ronald Reagan’s administration, neither party has truly distinguished itself as in any way visionary. Both parties are beholden to the same basic money interests. Whether the bailout is 850 million or 1 trillion — no big deal; it’s a bailout. Whether the highest marginal tax rate is 35 or 39, doesn’t matter; it’s inadequate. Neither party has made environmental stewardship a truly serious objective. Both parties bicker at each other over abortion, guns, immigration as if they are a dysfunctional family at a summer reunion (and that bickering gives us the illusion of difference) but at the end of the day, they are all family.

    Let’s face it, the Trump Administration is 180 degrees different in character from what a Clinton Administration would have been, but, sorry, there really would not have been a whole lot of substantive differences. It would have been business as usual (a Supreme Court debacle would have still happened, we’d probably be in an impeachment morass, and Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, and Kevin McCarthy would still be hurling pot shots to get media coverage).

    The current situation reminds me of the kind of fights that at one time each of the parties had within their parties (check out some of the old party conventions — crazy stuff).

    Now, it’s the same old, just played out on the national media stage.

  15. #2040
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatch View Post
    Unfortunately the unified, good for sides team approach works only in a vacuum today. The left and right have become so far apart that a true middle ground can hardly be visible over the horizon by either side. Social media is probably the worst thing to come to politics as we become a headline driven society bent on shock and awe for attention. Myself, I tend to separate the shock posts on both sides from what is actually going on. So admittedly I don't get all spun up on Trump's tweets and rhetoric just the same as I don't go full blown meltdown every time someone from the left says something colossally stupid. It's white noise on both sides and only serves to grab daily hits.

    Pointing out reasons why Trump has support for what he's doing isn't a blind admonition that he's a wonderful person or that we'd prefer he be more of a complete package in the ideal definition of a president. But in broad terms he's no different than most presidents. Perhaps others have had more congenial, bi partisan personalities.....but also had flaws in areas where Trump has been better. ( I know, I know....."where has this clown been better" right?)......but to be fair he's executed his campaign promises better than most.

    So yes, I can see where Trump certainly draws the ire and is a magnet for criticism of the personality of leadership. But at the same time I honestly don't feel this is a Trump Alone issue. I think the current pool of the Left's top crowd are painfully weak. I'm not hard core opposed to the Left I just think their current group of leaders is a disaster. I can be a lot more interested in someone outside of the career politician mold to step in and challenge. But again, as the gap widens further and further on agreement it's hard to imagine anything in the near future that isn't done by the Golden State method and stacking the deck.....just to keep it sports related for ya.
    That is the problem with the team game approach is one is a winner and the other a loser automatically. That approach is the problem lol. I agree much of it is white noise or whatever and just nonsense but the attacking stuff is actually bad as is lying. That is stuff people can obviously see as bad not just white noise team game people play that stuff around it now to try and hide. Ignoring bad things people do doesn't mean they aren't still true, it just is also over covered and you need to find out what's real/fake (which is part of the issue with lying so much in the first place definitely can't trust him).

    I disagree I think he is much different in how he handles himself as an individual compared to others. As mentioned he openly lies much more and we know lying is bad. He openly attacks and is divisive towards others and we know that is bad. There are tons of examples of Trump saying bad/ridiculous things to the point trying to equate him to others imo is a tribal/partisan move by many. Him passing his campaign is EXACTLY the tribal aspect one would focus on as the other side of the story. Well I know he is bad but he got what I wanted done... This is exactly what I am pointing to in the team game aspect. So long as this teams ideology wins who cares how horrible the people pushing it are.

    Trump is not alone and there are definitely other people who are bad leaders (large majority not to this extent as an individual). I don't think the crop on the left lies or attacks or is as poor individually in divisive and polarizing manners to nearly the same extent but I would love for you to provide the long list of examples if so and I will gladly respond to the comparison. You say it is a disaster but there are tons of examples all throughout the forum of Trump actually attacking/lying and being divisive so PLEASE provide the clear evidence and lets compare them individually (Sanders/Warren/Yang lemme know why these ones are nearly this level). I don't want a left/right partisan opinion I want examples of them attacking a religion as a whole. Lying on a regular basis to some extreme levels. Sharing propaganda videos on twitter about terrorism. Things they are doing as individuals to show they would be as bad/divisive/polarizing as leaders to this same extent.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 05-24-2019 at 04:58 PM.

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