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  1. #5251
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    I disagree completely with Walter. I think Tulsi's platform is mostly undeniably progressive.

    If we're just looking at policy wants she's as Sanders-adjacent as it gets, I'd argue. She hits most every of the progressive platform benchmarks but she also takes the extra step you'd never see most of the rest do (was at Standing Rock, her vocal criticism over US intervention in Latin America, etc.)

    From meeting al-Assad to how she has talked about Putin to how she goes on Fox and is often critical of Democrats to her fighting in the Iraq war to how she has talked about "radical Islam", and so on...I think some of that is counter to progressive ideals, and others not so much. But either way most are sour on her for whatever reasons. But after Sanders and Warren, she's the most progressive to me. And in many instances she's definitely to the left of Warren.

    Foreign policy is definitely her draw. She wanted an entire debate about it and frankly she's right. If she had achieved that her running would've been worth it entirely.
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  2. #5252
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Anyone complaining about Joe Biden calling someone who attacks his son with unfounded and unsubstantiated facts and supports Donald Trump is a god damned liar and hypocrite of the highest order. Glad no one here is doing something so ignorant.
    Are you talking about the old guy who asked Biden a simple question?

  3. #5253
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  4. #5254
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    I disagree completely with Walter. I think Tulsi's platform is mostly undeniably progressive.

    If we're just looking at policy wants she's as Sanders-adjacent as it gets, I'd argue. She hits most every of the progressive platform benchmarks but she also takes the extra step you'd never see most of the rest do (was at Standing Rock, her vocal criticism over US intervention in Latin America, etc.)

    From meeting al-Assad to how she has talked about Putin to how she goes on Fox and is often critical of Democrats to her fighting in the Iraq war to how she has talked about "radical Islam", and so on...I think some of that is counter to progressive ideals, and others not so much. But either way most are sour on her for whatever reasons. But after Sanders and Warren, she's the most progressive to me. And in many instances she's definitely to the left of Warren.

    Foreign policy is definitely her draw. She wanted an entire debate about it and frankly she's right. If she had achieved that her running would've been worth it entirely.
    Her views on abortion and gay marriage are the worst of any Dem running, and her s**t with Assad makes her a joke. The vast majority of her support comes from conservative circles. Sanders, Yang, and Warren are the only progressives running.
    "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.”

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  5. #5255
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlakeyFool View Post
    Are you talking about the old guy who asked Biden a simple question?
    The old guy who asked a question based on Trumpland info, yea.
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  6. #5256
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlakeyFool View Post
    Are you talking about the old guy who asked Biden a simple question?
    The guy admitted that it's just what he hears on TV. How hard would've it been for Biden just to run with that and then clearly explain the facts as he sees it. Instead he snapped. He called the guy a liar, hints that he's fat, challenges him to a feat of strength, challenges him to an IQ test and then roasts his age.

    I don't think it was the worst thing but I think it's yet another example that paints a clear picture of a guy who'd get absolutely mopped by Trump on a debate stage.

    I am a Sanders partisan and I'm fine admitting it. I did honestly think for a while that he was one of two people that could be Trump -- the other being Biden. But once the debates came and Joe actually had to be visible it became clear that he might be a disaster waiting to happen. The quicker we stop pretending otherwise the better.

    This isn't the Biden that cooked Paul Ryan on the debate stage years ago. This guy is erratic and bizarre, but not even in that harmlessly goofy way we might have thought of him in the past. That guy was sharp. That guy was diplomatic. This guy isn't. He's often confused and unpredictable, stumbling over simple points and facts. He often comes off as cruel, or creepy, and sometimes unwell. This specific instance isn't anything damning or disqualifying, but it's just more evidence that paints this clear picture.

    If we're looking for a candidate who represents a return to normalcy, respectability and sanity...well, we can do better.

    Trump is going to say Biden is a crazy old lunatic who isn't fit for office. That will be a huge part of his campaign. And for all his countless faults as a human, Trump's still quick-witted. Mix that with his sociopathic shamelessness and he's going to hammer Joe. Joe doesn't have that quickness. It worries me.
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  7. #5257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_White View Post
    Her views on abortion and gay marriage are the worst of any Dem running, and her s**t with Assad makes her a joke. The vast majority of her support comes from conservative circles. Sanders, Yang, and Warren are the only progressives running.
    I don't know about her stand on abortion, but her views have changed on gay marriage. Her s++t on Assad is blown way out of content. They don't mention she met all fractions during her Syria trip.

    Right now, for me, she is ticking off the establishment democrat like Clinton and being ignored by the main media. Those are positives to me.

  8. #5258
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    I disagree completely with Walter. I think Tulsi's platform is mostly undeniably progressive.

    If we're just looking at policy wants she's as Sanders-adjacent as it gets, I'd argue. She hits most every of the progressive platform benchmarks but she also takes the extra step you'd never see most of the rest do (was at Standing Rock, her vocal criticism over US intervention in Latin America, etc.)

    From meeting al-Assad to how she has talked about Putin to how she goes on Fox and is often critical of Democrats to her fighting in the Iraq war to how she has talked about "radical Islam", and so on...I think some of that is counter to progressive ideals, and others not so much. But either way most are sour on her for whatever reasons. But after Sanders and Warren, she's the most progressive to me. And in many instances she's definitely to the left of Warren.

    Foreign policy is definitely her draw. She wanted an entire debate about it and frankly she's right. If she had achieved that her running would've been worth it entirely.
    Agreed. And so does politico: https://www.politico.com/2020-electi...tulsi-gabbard/

  9. #5259
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrzubnyy View Post
    A push-up contest?

    Calling him fat?

    Calling him too old to vote?

    Really Joe?

    Folks, thst is the Dems best option?

    Hilarious!

    The Iowa voter asked a simple question.

    Why was his son giving THAT job even though he wasn’t qualified?
    And yet he polls ahead of Trump in most swing states and at one point in Texas. I think that speaks to just how bad of a president Trump is m, when he has a strong economy but people prefer sloppy Joe.


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  10. #5260
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    I don't know about her stand on abortion, but her views have changed on gay marriage. Her s++t on Assad is blown way out of content. They don't mention she met all fractions during her Syria trip.

    Right now, for me, she is ticking off the establishment democrat like Clinton and being ignored by the main media. Those are positives to me.
    ....but Russia!

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  11. #5261
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    I don't know about her stand on abortion, but her views have changed on gay marriage. Her s++t on Assad is blown way out of content. They don't mention she met all fractions during her Syria trip.
    No it wasn’t. Her trip to Syria was only to prop up Assad, She claims to be anti-war but then cozies up to war criminals and human rights abusers like Assad. I don’t know who all she “met” with apart from Assad but I do know she dismissed his entire opposition as “terrorists”. She also did an interview with Breitbart. Don’t trust her at all. She hasn’t opposed the recent anti abortion laws in Louisiana like other candidates have. She’s polling badly so I really have no interest in giving her any more of my attention.

    https://www.vice.com/amp/en_us/artic...mpression=true
    "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.”

    -JFK


  12. #5262
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    The guy admitted that it's just what he hears on TV. How hard would've it been for Biden just to run with that and then clearly explain the facts as he sees it. Instead he snapped. He called the guy a liar, hints that he's fat, challenges him to a feat of strength, challenges him to an IQ test and then roasts his age.

    I don't think it was the worst thing but I think it's yet another example that paints a clear picture of a guy who'd get absolutely mopped by Trump on a debate stage.

    I am a Sanders partisan and I'm fine admitting it. I did honestly think for a while that he was one of two people that could be Trump -- the other being Biden. But once the debates came and Joe actually had to be visible it became clear that he might be a disaster waiting to happen. The quicker we stop pretending otherwise the better.

    This isn't the Biden that cooked Paul Ryan on the debate stage years ago. This guy is erratic and bizarre, but not even in that harmlessly goofy way we might have thought of him in the past. That guy was sharp. That guy was diplomatic. This guy isn't. He's often confused and unpredictable, stumbling over simple points and facts. He often comes off as cruel, or creepy, and sometimes unwell. This specific instance isn't anything damning or disqualifying, but it's just more evidence that paints this clear picture.

    If we're looking for a candidate who represents a return to normalcy, respectability and sanity...well, we can do better.

    Trump is going to say Biden is a crazy old lunatic who isn't fit for office. That will be a huge part of his campaign. And for all his countless faults as a human, Trump's still quick-witted. Mix that with his sociopathic shamelessness and he's going to hammer Joe. Joe doesn't have that quickness. It worries me.
    Calling Biden a crazy old lunatic will just be seen as another example in a long line of projection coming from tRump. It won’t be taken seriously.
    "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.”

    -JFK


  13. #5263
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    Let me provide a different bit of POV on the Biden situation step by step.

    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    The guy admitted that it's just what he hears on TV. How hard would've it been for Biden just to run with that and then clearly explain the facts as he sees it. Instead he snapped. He called the guy a liar, hints that he's fat, challenges him to a feat of strength, challenges him to an IQ test and then roasts his age.
    I don't know if you watched the whole clip, or just the FoxNews one but it was prompted by two things: 1. the man said he thinks Biden is too old to be President and 2. the man repeated republican talking points that are baseless about his son. So for part 1, Biden was responding about his age. Saying that he is in great shape, his intellect is there, etc.

    Now for part 2, the part that is pretty lost here is that this is his child. He has been continually taking abuse about his son, all of which have no factual evidence behind him. After a bit, he's defending his child. People were up in arms because a professor said Trumps sons name... Bidens son has been getting attacked constantly... for once again something that there is no legitimate evidence for.

    I don't think it was the worst thing but I think it's yet another example that paints a clear picture of a guy who'd get absolutely mopped by Trump on a debate stage.

    I am a Sanders partisan and I'm fine admitting it. I did honestly think for a while that he was one of two people that could be Trump -- the other being Biden. But once the debates came and Joe actually had to be visible it became clear that he might be a disaster waiting to happen. The quicker we stop pretending otherwise the better.
    Here's will I disagree a bit, Dems were often criticizing Biden because they didn't think he had the fire to be in Trump in a debate. This was the first time we saw some fire & passion from Biden.

    Trump is going to say Biden is a crazy old lunatic who isn't fit for office. That will be a huge part of his campaign. And for all his countless faults as a human, Trump's still quick-witted. Mix that with his sociopathic shamelessness and he's going to hammer Joe. Joe doesn't have that quickness. It worries me.
    Just need to hope Biden is prepared for these talking points. I think we can all agree that Biden is a smarter human being than Donald Trump. This is scary from a Dem perspective but quite frankly Biden is the one who is the most electable and has the best chance of winning against Trump. I'm sure we would all love to see Elizabeth Warren absolutely dominate Trump on the debate stage, I would pay to see it. But you have to realize when it comes to these Trump debates that the facts don't really matter, the substance of what they are saying (policy) doesn't matter.

  14. #5264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_White View Post
    Calling Biden a crazy old lunatic will just be seen as another example in a long line of projection coming from tRump. It won’t be taken seriously.
    By you, sure. But apparently not enough people saw his ranting and raving about Hillary as projection

    We'll see. None of us know for sure how it would play out and I definitely could be wrong. I'm trying to predict the future. Who knows? I just trust him on that stage debating and arguing with Trump much less than just about everyone else. I'll leave it at that.
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  15. #5265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_White View Post
    No it wasn’t. Her trip to Syria was only to prop up Assad, She claims to be anti-war but then cozies up to war criminals and human rights abusers like Assad. I don’t know who all she “met” with apart from Assad but I do know she dismissed his entire opposition as “terrorists”. She also did an interview with Breitbart. Don’t trust her at all. She hasn’t opposed the recent anti abortion laws in Louisiana like other candidates have. She’s polling badly so I really have no interest in giving her any more of my attention.

    https://www.vice.com/amp/en_us/artic...mpression=true
    On the abortion article, it says she has a 100 % percent rating from NARAL, Pro-Choice America and Planned Parenthood when she bows out of the democrat group hug SUBMITTING brief opposing the law. Did she really lose all her 100% rating missing out on something that just barked with no bite? A photo-op that says we can't do crap about it but we are pissed? I have seem enough of those types of democrat photo-ops over the decades, so I won't hold it against her for not joining in.

    All that "to prop up Assad" is just bs. Why would someone running for President, give service to our reserves on the battlefield and being a minority and a woman, who knows she has to walk a tighter line, open herself to failure by "propping up Assad?" Does she strike you as a stupid person or even a disloyal one who gives aid and comfort to our enemies? That is basically what you are saying.

    And no Her and Yang are holding up better than the moderates not name Joe or Pete in the polls.

    I am hoping that the next debate have Pete and Joe surround by progressives
    Last edited by WES445; 12-06-2019 at 08:14 PM.

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