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  1. #4906
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Most of the traditional republicans I know are wishing for an open primary and Romney to take over.


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    Gross
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  2. #4907
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomass View Post
    Gross
    Agreed.


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  3. #4908
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    Can you really guarantee equal opportunity? Do you really think that a child of a super wealthy family doesn’t have more opportunities than some kid raised by a single parent working a couple low wage jobs?
    Yes, people really have equal opportunities. There’s lots of differences between someone raised by super wealthy parents and someone raised by poor parents. While super wealthy kids may have an “easier” time going to college, kids who grew up poor have a stronger work ethic. The problem is the job market doesn’t favor work ethic as much as it use too. People use to be able to graduate high school, start working at a factory and make a decent living. Those jobs have all been either automated, enhanced with technology or outsourced overseas for cheaper labor. So unfortunately, work ethic needs to be focused elsewhere. The “road to success” has become a longer, although still achievable for people in poorer communities. That being said, opportunities in careers that use to demand a college education are becoming less in need of said education, specifically in IT and technological related fields. IMO, the playing field will become more leveled once we do away with the sham that are colleges. They are meaningless in the long run.







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  4. #4909
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Kinda. I mean from a traditional global perspective there’s nothing socialist about his proposals. In fact it’s right in line with New Deal era politics. If it were the 40’s he’d be a Roosevelt Democrat.

    I think it says a lot about how far to the right our politics are now after Reagan era economics and Clinton governing like a dem while being right of center. Some social moves to the left like marriage equality but that’s about it.
    I don’t think anyone could really point to one real socialist policy that Sanders advocates. This isn’t a shot at him. I give him credit for taking on the title that the right throws out without really knowing or caring what it means and shoving it back in their face. But he’s not a socialist or a communist.

  5. #4910
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Yes, people really have equal opportunities. There’s lots of differences between someone raised by super wealthy parents and someone raised by poor parents. While super wealthy kids may have an “easier” time going to college, kids who grew up poor have a stronger work ethic. The problem is the job market doesn’t favor work ethic as much as it use too. People use to be able to graduate high school, start working at a factory and make a decent living. Those jobs have all been either automated, enhanced with technology or outsourced overseas for cheaper labor. So unfortunately, work ethic needs to be focused elsewhere. The “road to success” has become a longer, although still achievable for people in poorer communities. That being said, opportunities in careers that use to demand a college education are becoming less in need of said education, specifically in IT and technological related fields. IMO, the playing field will become more leveled once we do away with the sham that are colleges. They are meaningless in the long run.
    So you claim that those born to the super rich and the poor have equal opportunity and then explain clearly why they don't lol.

    And color me unsurprised you look at college and think "waste of time".

  6. #4911
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomass View Post
    Gross
    But at least they don't prefer Trump.

  7. #4912
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I don’t think anyone could really point to one real socialist policy that Sanders advocates. This isn’t a shot at him. I give him credit for taking on the title that the right throws out without really knowing or caring what it means and shoving it back in their face. But he’s not a socialist or a communist.
    Today? Not much. But Bernie's past tells a different story. Like I said, I don't mind, there are just other candidates I prefer this time around.

  8. #4913
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    Yeah, the American brand of "Democratic Socialism" is not what most people think. Or what most conservative try to scare you into thinking. His brand of Democratic Socialism is very clearly laid out in many places. A lot of it is semantics, and we've had that thread before.

    Regardless, he's to the left of Warren and I think tangibly so. I don't think any side has anything to gain or lose by admitting that. I don't think Warren wants to be regarded as being as left as him.

    For me it's just about trust. I am an issues voter. Bernie has walked the walk for much longer than I've been alive. Warren has not. I really want the progressive platform to win in the public court of opinion and eventually in politics, and quite frankly I trust Sanders to be that advocate and champion a lot more than Warren. I do absolutely think he's "more progressive", but sometimes people do get a bit nit picky and sell Warren short. She's not a 1b for me, but she's a clear #2 and my #3 consists of a bunch of people I'd be depressed to vote for.

    So yeah, it's all about trust with me. I trust almost no one, but there's literally NO reason to think Sanders, if he won, wouldn't fight for the things he says. I can't say that about Warren with nearly as much confidence. I don't trust 98% of Democrats. So that's why I'm where I am.



    I also probably spoke a little too soon about the response to the recent Israel/Palestine debacle. Sanders' statement was a bit lackluster and Warren explicitly pointed out how many Palestinians were killed and acknowledged the humanitarian crisis Israel has caused. Sanders' "bothsides" it slightly more than she did. Every other candidate said the wrong things. Still, Sanders' has historically been more outspoken and has shown he more readily understands what's happening in Israel.
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  9. #4914
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    No apologies are necessary ManRam. I respect your support for Sanders and enjoy your vigorous defense of him. He’s a guy who is my second choice. So I don’t hate him by any stretch. My comment was more directed at those attacking Sanders rather than defending him.

  10. #4915
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    So you claim that those born to the super rich and the poor have equal opportunity and then explain clearly why they don't lol.

    And color me unsurprised you look at college and think "waste of time".
    There was a time when college was meaningful in that the materials necessary for a quality education were provided at these beacons of higher learning. But in the modern era, all the materials, even lectures from quality professors can be found on your google device. One of the main issues we have in our society is this view from the past that college is somehow necessary for an education. It’s not. It’s just a bunch of tired, tenured professors meandering about life and a bunch of stupid kids chomping up their garbage in between getting drunk.

  11. #4916
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I don’t think anyone could really point to one real socialist policy that Sanders advocates. This isn’t a shot at him. I give him credit for taking on the title that the right throws out without really knowing or caring what it means and shoving it back in their face. But he’s not a socialist or a communist.
    I mean he calls himself one. Globally speaking he takes very moderate policies but were a bit archaic and corporate friendly so they appear “far left”.


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  12. #4917
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    There was a time when college was meaningful in that the materials necessary for a quality education were provided at these beacons of higher learning. But in the modern era, all the materials, even lectures from quality professors can be found on your google device. One of the main issues we have in our society is this view from the past that college is somehow necessary for an education. It’s not. It’s just a bunch of tired, tenured professors meandering about life and a bunch of stupid kids chomping up their garbage in between getting drunk.
    I agree, theoretically one could learn everything taught in most college courses via the internet and other sources. But how many who don't go to college do this?

    Also, a report just came out that shows, despite you and other's vilification of college, that going to college is still the smart financial choice as you earn far more by going to college on average than if you do not. Since you seem so keen on fiscal matters and fiscal responsibility, it is odd that you have such a divergent view from the smart economic choice.

  13. #4918
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    "Socialism" is just a hard *** definition to pin down. It's a word that's used, broadly to describe one of two broad economic systems. You're going to have a range. You're going to have a variety of definitions. There's going to be a lot of people who think a lot of different things trying to fit under that umbrella. I think a lot of this is semantics.

    But his platform is clearly laid out. The DSA does a good job explaining what they view "Democratic Socialism" to be.

    Is it the best set of two words? I don't know. I like it, personally. It's emphasizing two important things. I don't think something like "social democrats" is more apt.

    And again, we also are operating on a slightly skewed political spectrum than most every other country you'd comfortably compare us to. We're shifted a bit to the right here. Our socialists aren't as "extreme" as most others who take ownership of that label. Our moderates are probably more conservative than most other equivalents.
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  14. #4919
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    I mean he calls himself one. Globally speaking he takes very moderate policies but were a bit archaic and corporate friendly so they appear “far left”.


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    That doesn’t mean he is one. He is one colloquially in so much as Republicans insist on using it as a scattershot insult to cover for their laziness in actually forming an argument against the Democrats and their political ideas.

  15. #4920
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I agree, theoretically one could learn everything taught in most college courses via the internet and other sources. But how many who don't go to college do this?

    Also, a report just came out that shows, despite you and other's vilification of college, that going to college is still the smart financial choice as you earn far more by going to college on average than if you do not. Since you seem so keen on fiscal matters and fiscal responsibility, it is odd that you have such a divergent view from the smart economic choice.
    There are some issues with those reports though. The main one to me is that it assumes wealth is your goal. I have a daughter who wants to be a middle school or high school educator and another who wants to work in the theater. Neither is going to be wealthy. One is going to have to go to college to be able to teach, the other, I've talked a bunch of people in her field and they say that being there and working hard is far more important to success than college.

    I don't agree that a degree should be needed to teach, but that's the reality now.

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