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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    I already explained.

    But if you think teams are just using Fangraphs to evaluate their team, opponents, minor leagues, draftees etc. then you are fooling yourself.

    I worked on a team that creates simulations, we used analytics to evaluate the users After Action Review (AAR) to help instruct/teach them to do properly in real life.
    Never said that. Not sure why you would try to bait me with a lie like that.

    Data comes from multiple sources, some of it is the raw numbers available to everyone -- for example it seems apparent that MLB teams subscribe to baseball-reference based on a tweet it sent to MLB team subscribers. Raw data is also available from MiLB. Some data is specialized and enhanced by technology, like PitchFx and StatCast. The rest likely comes from data entry at the scout level directly or off of video tape. Every Sand Gnats game I went to, the Mets always had someone with a digital video camera recording every pitch and AB. What do you think they did with the video? Someone probably analyzed it.

    What does matter and what is unique is how the data is analyzed. For example, I would like to know the rankings of the top 20 PCL batters against the top 20 PCL pitching leaders in stats A, B, and/or C because inflated numbers against the LARGE backside of AAA pitching will not help me evaluate if a player might be ready for MLB pitching. That's not difficult to compile if your database is set up to filter the specific data sets. It doesn't take 20 people to do that because the majority of work is on the front end-- creating the database structure and then data-entry which seems as though most of it could be imported directly from external sources and without intensive manual labor. However, some internal data would also likely be available since the team likely employs someone at each minor league level that enters game-day observations either directly or from digital video.

    How do you think the Mets made the Familia deal? It would not surprise me if it was analytics driven. They seemed to specifically focus on two areas of weakness within the organization, RP and depth at 3B. They scrubbed opponents rosters for a combination of two players that met their criteria and proposed the deal. Their analytics may well have determined that despite any opinions otherwise, this was the appropriate combination of players they wanted to add to the organization.

    I'm all for the Mets expanding their analytics department, but I'm not going to sit here and agree that 20 > 5 with 5 being the sweet spot Adam Fischer referred to.
    Last edited by Dugmet; 10-11-2018 at 05:41 PM.

    The Greatest.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJNetsIsles View Post
    I came in to PSD as a bit of a loose cannon without really knowing the rules of the forum. I got banned and interacted a lot and I still am loose, seeing as how I said F**ck everything, just 2 pages back. Iíll probably get banned again!

    But, Iíve tried to learn from all of you guys every day I post and that keeps me going. This is a great forum at its core. I think we can all be better GMs than whoever the Mets hire! Clay, Dug, FoC, etc.

    Iím always willing to learn. Iím never going to be perfect. I make mistakes and will always be the hardest worker to try and correct my wrongs.

    I think with our combined efforts we can change the Mets fortunes.
    I shall not seek and I will not accept an offer to be the Mets GM. FoC knows his limitations.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    Never said that. Not sure why you would try to bait me with a lie like that.

    Data comes from multiple sources, some of it is the raw numbers available to everyone -- for example it seems apparent that MLB teams subscribe to baseball-reference based on a tweet it sent to MLB team subscribers. Raw data is also available from MiLB. Some data is specialized and enhanced by technology, like PitchFx and StatCast. The rest likely comes from data entry at the scout level directly or off of video tape. Every Sand Gnats game I went to, the Mets always had someone with a digital video camera recording every pitch and AB. What do you think they did with the video? Someone probably analyzed it.

    What does matter and what is unique is how the data is analyzed. For example, I would like to know the rankings of the top 20 PCL batters against the top 20 PCL pitching leaders in stats A, B, and/or C because inflated numbers against the LARGE backside of AAA pitching will not help me evaluate if a player might be ready for MLB pitching. That's not difficult to compile if your database is set up to filter the specific data sets. It doesn't take 20 people to do that because the majority of work is on the front end-- creating the database structure and then data-entry which seems as though most of it could be imported directly from external sources and without intensive manual labor. However, some internal data would also likely be available since the team likely employs someone at each minor league level that enters game-day observations either directly or from digital video.

    How do you think the Mets made the Familia deal? It would not surprise me if it was analytics driven. They seemed to specifically focus on two areas of weakness within the organization, RP and depth at 3B. They scrubbed opponents rosters for a combination of two players that met their criteria and proposed the deal. Their analytics may well have determined that despite any opinions otherwise, this was the appropriate combination of players they wanted to add to the organization.

    I'm all for the Mets expanding their analytics department, but I'm not going to sit here and agree that 20 > 5 with 5 being the sweet spot Adam Fischer referred to.
    My intention was not to bait you.
    I apologize if you took it that way.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    My intention was not to bait you.
    I apologize if you took it that way.
    Intentions don't matter. We both know that.

    https://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sh...7#post32553827

    The Greatest.

  5. #50
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    Houston Astros are now using analytics to make players better besides finding hidden talent.
    Specifically pitchers.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    W

    Defense for one. Did u notice how little this team valued defense during Alderson's tenure?
    At the end of the day, we know how this works ... the value of a positional player is based on runs created and runs saved -- or in some cases runs allowed.

    In this era where strikeouts are on the rise (Mets pitching staff has been top-ten in Ks for 5 seasons) and where players are positioned in the field based on hitting analytics, defense may not need to be at the top of the list. Other factors may matter more to determine a players net effect on runs.

    That said, the Mets have certainly paid attention to defense. Lagares was signed to a long term deal. Murphy was let go in part because of the negative effect of his glove and replaced with Walker who had a significantly better glove + a productive bat. Flores at SS was backed up by Tejada - often. Nido was rushed to the MLB roster because of his glove, not his bat. Mets have drafted with defense in mind, Smith, Guillorme, even Nimmo, Cecchini, Kelenic, etc. All projected with the with the potential to play up the middle at least at an average level. Conforto was said to have a below average glove by some, but possibly Mets scouting staff saw more potential than what was written in the media. Nieuwenhuis and denDekker returned to the organization for a second look.
    Last edited by Dugmet; 10-12-2018 at 10:25 AM.

    The Greatest.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    At the end of the day, we know how this works ... the value of a positional player is based on runs created and runs saved -- or in some cases runs allowed.

    In this era where strikeouts are on the rise (Mets pitching staff has been top-ten in Ks for 5 seasons) and where players are positioned in the field based on hitting analytics, defense may not need to be at the top of the list. Other factors may matter more to determine a players net effect on runs.

    That said, the Mets have certainly paid attention to defense. Lagares was signed to a long term deal. Murphy was let go in part because of the negative effect of his glove and replaced with Walker who had a significantly better glove + a productive bat. Flores at SS was backed up by Tejada - often. Nido was rushed to the MLB roster because of his glove, not his bat. Mets have drafted with defense in mind, Smith, Guillorme, even Nimmo, Cecchini, Kelenic, etc. All projected with the with the potential to play up the middle at least at an average level. Conforto was said to have a below average glove by some, but possibly Mets scouting staff saw more potential than what was written in the media. Nieuwenhuis and denDekker returned to the organization for a second look.
    Defense not at the top of the list? I think that's an understatement when you look at Alderson's tenure here and the amount of players who were bad to awful defensively and were playing out of position. You can make that sacrifice if you bring in a player like JD Martinez but the Mets weren't. They had guys like Cuddyer, Cabrera, Flores, who were square pegs in round holes and at times were average offensively. The Mets clearly didn't prioritize defensive analytics or for that matter much else offensively, besides power and OBP. There are more examples of that as well.

    Don't let some of their drafts fool you either. Guys like Nimmo, Smith, Cecchini, Conforto, were envisioned as offensive first players and were still at times out of position defensively.

    Sure you can say the Mets had their own stats they focused on but they haven't been at the forefront of analytics at the level of evaluating talent, player development, etc.
    Last edited by metswon69; 10-13-2018 at 04:41 PM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Defense not at the top of the list? I think that's an understatement when you look at Alderson's tenure here and the amount of players who were bad to awful defensively and were playing out of position. You can make that sacrifice if you bring in a player like JD Martinez but the Mets weren't. They had guys like Cuddyer, Cabrera, Flores, who were square pegs in round holes and at times were average offensively. The Mets clearly didn't prioritize defensive analytics or for that matter much else offensively, besides power and OBP. There are more examples of that as well.

    Don't let some of their drafts fool you either. Guys like Nimmo, Smith, Cecchini, Conforto, were envisioned as offensive first players and were still at times out of position defensively.

    Sure you can say the Mets had their own stats they focused on but they haven't been at the forefront of analytics at the level of evaluating talent, player development, etc.
    Exactly. Everyone follows a form of an analytical model, but the Mets' version isn't sophisticated at all. Nothing compared to what some of the other, more successful teams are doing.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    I want you to be the Mets next GM.
    I'll take it

  10. #55
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    I don't know what the Mets analytical model is compared to other teams. I know the results aren't that impressive.

    Maybe start with that simple reality and then figure out why.

    Don't worry. He's got this.

  11. #56
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    So we're hearing a lot about something now that we first started hearing when Nelson Doubleday talked about selling his interests: Jeff Wilpon insists on playing an active role in the organization's decision making. Assuming that's the case, that all major decisions must go through him, why are we wasting time talking about the organization's philosophy about analytics and how many advanced analysts we have in the front office?

    With Jeff in charge, does it matter?

    Good owners hire smart baseball men and then hold them responsible for the results. Bad owners try to run the show themselves.

    Jeff and his dad, Fred, are bad owners.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears Ė but they seem kinda sensible...."

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    So we're hearing a lot about something now that we first started hearing when Nelson Doubleday talked about selling his interests: Jeff Wilpon insists on playing an active role in the organization's decision making. Assuming that's the case, that all major decisions must go through him, why are we wasting time talking about the organization's philosophy about analytics and how many advanced analysts we have in the front office?

    With Jeff in charge, does it matter?

    Good owners hire smart baseball men and then hold them responsible for the results. Bad owners try to run the show themselves.

    Jeff and his dad, Fred, are bad owners.
    I don't even care about the meddlesome owner narrative. George Steinbrenner was a meddlesome owner and won 7 WS titles. I know the story about Stick Michael and his influence on the team when George was banned from baseball in 1990 but George had a pulse with his team regardless of how many managers he went through. He knew what could help the Yankees win.

    Where this ownership sucks is they are meddlesome, cheap and not very knowledgeable about baseball. That's why the Mets have had only 3 playoff appearances since Fred took complete ownership in 2002.

    Before Dug excuses them, just think about other big market teams in that same time time frame. The Red Sox have won 3 WS titles since 2004, the Yankees are a perennial playoff team, the Dodgers have won the division 6 years in a row, The Giants won 3 WS titles in 6 years, etc.
    Last edited by metswon69; Yesterday at 05:18 PM.

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