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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Somewhere within the transmutation of Yin and Yang
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    Off Season Thread. Rip off the bandaids boys. It's over

    A disappointing albeit, not shocking end to the season.

    My immediate thoughts and reactions-

    This team doesn't have enough contact hitters. They are really playing station to station ball and I find that boring and annoying. I think the key to this was the unfortunate addition of Stanton, yes, unfortunate.
    I didn't like the signing from the start. We would have been much better suited with a lefty hitter who could hit. I know Stanton's numbers and that he checks all the boxes but he is crap at situational hitting and crap at simply moving runners. I know that's not his style but when you have Judge and Sanchez in the lineup, Stanton's shortcomings are more visible and more dangerous, not to mention that he was god awful in high leverage situations, in other words, he choked.


    Sanchez should not be given the starting job next year. He gave up in game 3 and he is also a guy with zero intelligence at the plate when it comes to situational hitting. He is supposed to be the best pure hitter? He will have to prove that.
    As a catcher? When you look at how many runs the Sox catchers saved vs how many Sanchez set up behind the plate, it says it all. I think we bought the cooled regarding his abilities as a catcher. He has a cannon for an arm but is lack of leadership hurts him at the position. We are better suited with him at DH and having a defensively stout catcher behind the plate. But we can't DH him because Stanton is the DH. And we can't play Stanton in LF or CF because he's not that good and he will get injured.

    I think one of Stanton or Sanchez needs to go. I would much rather keep Sanchez. We can't have 3 righty power bats that all K at an absurd rate, especially the two mentioned, because of their "fence only" mentality.


    Sevy is a number 2 starter at best. He's not an ace. He's not even close. Unless he was injured and that story is true, he was crap for the entire second half. We were happy with 4 innings against the As? BS He didn't pitch well. He got lucky. An Ace would have gone into the 6th or 7th.


    Let CC walk. It's time.


    Boone? Cora showed why spending time on a major league bench before being handed a managing job is important. He looked like he had a plan. Boone looked lost and desperate. I also wonder if the team actually trust or respect Boone as the manager. The lack of talk about that idea is interesting. It could mean they love him or it could mean they have been asked to keep quiet or in the spirit of why he was hired, it could mean the players don't want to say anything negative because it might hurt his feelings.

    Luke was a pleasant surprise. He hits the ball all over the field and he works the count. That last at bat was great. He's a keeper. We don't know if he will be consistent but he looks very good.

    If CC goes, try to keep Happ. Let him be the number 4.
    There are no real Aces that I can see in FA but lets try to get a couple of frontline starters to fill in the gaps. Sheffield looked awful, we don't know how Monty will heal and Adams didn't look great. I hope they all come back with a vengeance but in case they don't, get some security.

    Keep Slappy. If he's amenable to a much reduced role, he's a great guy to have off the bench. Go into next season with Judge, Frazier and Hicks as your OF. (Unless you move Stanton and sign Harper.)

    The infield is solid. Andujar should improve defensively, as should Voit. Hopefully Bird turns it around and gets back to what we thought he would be.

    Sign Daniel Murphy.

    Let Britton walk and keep the rest of the pen.

    And the more positive note, this team wasn't even supposed to be here this year. 2019 and beyond is when they should really make noise. This was just a gift.



    Waiting for Spring training.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Creepyville, USA
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    37,142
    They have a lot of work to do and a lot of money to spend.

    We need an Olerud type 1b. High average hitter who can field. Enough of these slugger types. Trade Voit while he has value cause he stinks too. Or train Miggy there. Then sign Machado.

    LF is important. Need a true all around player there. Slappy can be let go if Clint stays.

    Unload the farm for Max or Degrom. Sign Corbin. Bye Fatty. Bye Sonny.

    Resign Britton or Drob but one of em cheap. Maybe even Familia. Load up the pen because that’s the way the game is headed.

    Done.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    8,254
    Clown, well said and on point. I agree we need more situational hitting. We also need contact guys. Nice to lead the league in HR's a lot nicer playing for another WS ring! Our over reliance on the long ball became painfully obvious. A front end arm is a must, as noted the kids didn't impress in their auditions.

    BP was solid. Should remain intact with minor tinkering (DRob).

    What we absolutely don't need is another HR bat that K's too often, we already have enough. As mentioned this team needs to play a bit more fundamental BB.
    “Farts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” — Aldous Huxley
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Albert Einstein
    “Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.”---- James Baldwin



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    NYC
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    23,334
    my fave part of the year.

    did we sign harper and machado yet?

    heres who i would target:
    machado
    harper
    Ryu
    trade andujar and specs for a top of the rotation pitcher if available
    resign happ , drob and sabathia
    either replace boone or get a bench coach with manager experience
    replace rothchild with cone
    get an upgrade at backup catcher

    winner winner chicken dinner

  5. #5
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    Nov 2009
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    Bronx NY
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    2,546
    wish we had contact hitters like houston. Cya next season.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Clearwater, Fl
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    13,203
    Quote Originally Posted by infernoscurse View Post
    my fave part of the year.

    did we sign harper and machado yet?

    heres who i would target:
    machado
    harper
    Ryu
    trade andujar and specs for a top of the rotation pitcher if available
    resign happ , drob and sabathia
    either replace boone or get a bench coach with manager experience
    replace rothchild with cone
    get an upgrade at backup catcher

    winner winner chicken dinner

    So Cone is going to be better than Larry? Nonsense....Larry is fine...

    Always remember, Larry can’t shine a turd...

    Boone is staying, what is Cashman going do now, fire him? George is long gone!
    Last edited by rrzubnyy; 10-10-2018 at 09:27 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    The Barren, Desolate Wastes of Angband
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    5,099
    My own two cents:


    1) Re-sign Happ and Sign Corbin. Pitching needs a massive overhaul. It seems like every October game we are walking on eggshells because we don't have a Sale type who can just challenge and overpower hitters at whim and will. WWAAYY too much nibbling and fear, reactionary pitching.

    2) Unload the farm for Max or deGrom. Sheffield performed exactly to as scouted, despite some posters' very best attempts to spin deflection by questioning the professional acumen of the guys who are actually trained and put in years of hard diligence to observe and report.

    This would look something like this:

    Severino or Andujar
    Fraizer
    Sheffield or Florial
    Bird
    Gray
    Voit or Andujar

    Do not allow for a combo of Andujar, Voit and Severino and Voit not included on anything not named Max.

    3) Re-sign McCutchen and either cut Gardy loose or relegate him to a permanent spell status. No longer will (should) this team function on the 'advanced metrics' of Brett Gardner.

    4) Sever ties with CC, Gardner (see #4), Bird, Gray, and Britton. Those ships have sailed.

    5) Sign Machado. Brian was able to straw man deflect off of not pursuing Machado at the deadline because of his usual tripe about not trading talent (no matter how inexperienced and unproven) and paying salary under the low-hanging cloak of Machado's impending FA rendering him a glorified rental. We need a high contact, production-priority hitter to counterbalance the meat sack mentality we have embraced since the acquisition of Giambi.

    6) Repurpose Brian's role in this organization going forward. He is an excellent operations man, and has demonstrated an extremely high aptitude for keeping the egofests out of the media glare but he should absolutely be stripped of any and all baseball decision making powers. The same goes for our supposedly 'famed analytics department.' These the guys that decided to start CC as opposed to Happ because the matchups looked better? The guys who benched McCutchen for 0-7 Brett becuase the matchups looked better?? The guys who took our potential rookie of the year out of the most important game of his career and our season because the matchups looked better?? Enough of that noise.

    7) In response to #6, conclude your business relationship with Mr. Boone and bring on either Pena or Showalter to shepherd this young, but immensely potent collection of talent past the flatline plateau we are shaking off right now. Showalter, in particular, would be an old-school, 'I'm not going to be receiving field instructions from Jean Afterman,' type of guy. Can balance the metrics against old-world baseball knowledge and acumen and is enough of a hard-head to get some of our, shall we say, more mentally lazy players in shape and in line.

    This is just me spit-balling initial hopes but I personally don't think Hal has the gumption to execute even 2 of these and all 7 are extremely necessary.


    Any Questions?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Somewhere within the transmutation of Yin and Yang
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    Clown, well said and on point. I agree we need more situational hitting. We also need contact guys. Nice to lead the league in HR's a lot nicer playing for another WS ring! Our over reliance on the long ball became painfully obvious. A front end arm is a must, as noted the kids didn't impress in their auditions.

    BP was solid. Should remain intact with minor tinkering (DRob).


    What we absolutely don't need is another HR bat that K's too often, we already have enough. As mentioned this team needs to play a bit more fundamental BB.
    I know I've been dragging out this point but I am sure that if we had Murphy instead of Stanton, the results of the season would have been different.

    We really need guys who can but the bat on the ball. Murderer's row is a lineup that people presume to have hit tons of HR but it wasn't. Ruth and Gehrig did but the rest of the team had ridiculous averages and OBPs.
    Cashman is too caught up in analytics and not enough in what makes a good team enjoyable to watch.

    Flat out, the Astros and Sox are way more fun to watch as teams.



    Waiting for Spring training.

  9. #9
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    Mar 2011
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    Somewhere within the transmutation of Yin and Yang
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauronthepower View Post
    My own two cents:


    1) Re-sign Happ and Sign Corbin. Pitching needs a massive overhaul. It seems like every October game we are walking on eggshells because we don't have a Sale type who can just challenge and overpower hitters at whim and will. WWAAYY too much nibbling and fear, reactionary pitching.

    2) Unload the farm for Max or deGrom. Sheffield performed exactly to as scouted, despite some posters' very best attempts to spin deflection by questioning the professional acumen of the guys who are actually trained and put in years of hard diligence to observe and report.

    This would look something like this:

    Severino or Andujar
    Fraizer
    Sheffield or Florial
    Bird
    Gray
    Voit or Andujar

    Do not allow for a combo of Andujar, Voit and Severino and Voit not included on anything not named Max.

    3) Re-sign McCutchen and either cut Gardy loose or relegate him to a permanent spell status. No longer will (should) this team function on the 'advanced metrics' of Brett Gardner.

    4) Sever ties with CC, Gardner (see #4), Bird, Gray, and Britton. Those ships have sailed.

    5) Sign Machado. Brian was able to straw man deflect off of not pursuing Machado at the deadline because of his usual tripe about not trading talent (no matter how inexperienced and unproven) and paying salary under the low-hanging cloak of Machado's impending FA rendering him a glorified rental. We need a high contact, production-priority hitter to counterbalance the meat sack mentality we have embraced since the acquisition of Giambi.

    6) Repurpose Brian's role in this organization going forward. He is an excellent operations man, and has demonstrated an extremely high aptitude for keeping the egofests out of the media glare but he should absolutely be stripped of any and all baseball decision making powers. The same goes for our supposedly 'famed analytics department.' These the guys that decided to start CC as opposed to Happ because the matchups looked better? The guys who benched McCutchen for 0-7 Brett becuase the matchups looked better?? The guys who took our potential rookie of the year out of the most important game of his career and our season because the matchups looked better?? Enough of that noise.

    7) In response to #6, conclude your business relationship with Mr. Boone and bring on either Pena or Showalter to shepherd this young, but immensely potent collection of talent past the flatline plateau we are shaking off right now. Showalter, in particular, would be an old-school, 'I'm not going to be receiving field instructions from Jean Afterman,' type of guy. Can balance the metrics against old-world baseball knowledge and acumen and is enough of a hard-head to get some of our, shall we say, more mentally lazy players in shape and in line.

    This is just me spit-balling initial hopes but I personally don't think Hal has the gumption to execute even 2 of these and all 7 are extremely necessary.
    I am all for all except #2. If we do as you suggest and sign Corbin and Happ
    Corbin-Tanaka-Sevy-Happ, is a very good front 4.

    People gave Jeter crap about the Stanton trade. I think in the end it will be Cashman who gets crucified. I would be fine changing his job description.

    I would also love to see a seasoned manager get ahold of this club. But Brian's ego is too big for that. I think we will be stuck with Boone for the foreseeable future and it could ruin this team.



    Waiting for Spring training.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,510
    i would sign machado and harper look to sign corbin.. trade for scherzer and the yanks are ready for battle next year it's that simple...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,573
    I really wish I wasn’t in this camp but we need the FO to sitdown and figureout who would be best at first going forward between Miggy, Voit and Bird (yeah, we need to move Miggy off third - either to first or left. His glove at third is that bad.)

    We need to figure out our staff going forward - Sevy will be fine and I expect him to be just as dominating and get stronger so he can sustain it throughout the year, Tanaka will be Tanaka, Montgomery isn’t going to be back until August at the earliest, we have young depth but we need one super 2 or Ace to go with Sevy and I really hope the team doesn’t break the bank for Corbin.

    I’m not worried about Sanchez going forward outside of his passed balls (does anyone in here know whether or not he showed real improvement there?).

    I’m moderately worried about Clint

    Hicks is the most underrated player in the league and a 5 tool star - it goes against Cashman orthodoxy but we need to lock him up through ‘21.

    Resign DRob

    I’m torn on Gardy. He’s not getting his number retire but he’s probably getting a plaque. Guy is also such a presence.

    Figure out the Ellsbury mess.

    Tell Sabathia he’s getting a plaque and/or his number retired and ask if he’d consider being and assistant pitching coach (his presence in the clubhouse and with the kids can’t be overstated).

    Obligatory consider Manny at third spiel.
    Last edited by DasBoot; 10-10-2018 at 09:42 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,510
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    A disappointing albeit, not shocking end to the season.

    My immediate thoughts and reactions-

    This team doesn't have enough contact hitters. They are really playing station to station ball and I find that boring and annoying. I think the key to this was the unfortunate addition of Stanton, yes, unfortunate.
    I didn't like the signing from the start. We would have been much better suited with a lefty hitter who could hit. I know Stanton's numbers and that he checks all the boxes but he is crap at situational hitting and crap at simply moving runners. I know that's not his style but when you have Judge and Sanchez in the lineup, Stanton's shortcomings are more visible and more dangerous, not to mention that he was god awful in high leverage situations, in other words, he choked.


    Sanchez should not be given the starting job next year. He gave up in game 3 and he is also a guy with zero intelligence at the plate when it comes to situational hitting. He is supposed to be the best pure hitter? He will have to prove that.
    As a catcher? When you look at how many runs the Sox catchers saved vs how many Sanchez set up behind the plate, it says it all. I think we bought the cooled regarding his abilities as a catcher. He has a cannon for an arm but is lack of leadership hurts him at the position. We are better suited with him at DH and having a defensively stout catcher behind the plate. But we can't DH him because Stanton is the DH. And we can't play Stanton in LF or CF because he's not that good and he will get injured.

    I think one of Stanton or Sanchez needs to go. I would much rather keep Sanchez. We can't have 3 righty power bats that all K at an absurd rate, especially the two mentioned, because of their "fence only" mentality.


    Sevy is a number 2 starter at best. He's not an ace. He's not even close. Unless he was injured and that story is true, he was crap for the entire second half. We were happy with 4 innings against the As? BS He didn't pitch well. He got lucky. An Ace would have gone into the 6th or 7th.


    Let CC walk. It's time.


    Boone? Cora showed why spending time on a major league bench before being handed a managing job is important. He looked like he had a plan. Boone looked lost and desperate. I also wonder if the team actually trust or respect Boone as the manager. The lack of talk about that idea is interesting. It could mean they love him or it could mean they have been asked to keep quiet or in the spirit of why he was hired, it could mean the players don't want to say anything negative because it might hurt his feelings.

    Luke was a pleasant surprise. He hits the ball all over the field and he works the count. That last at bat was great. He's a keeper. We don't know if he will be consistent but he looks very good.

    If CC goes, try to keep Happ. Let him be the number 4.
    There are no real Aces that I can see in FA but lets try to get a couple of frontline starters to fill in the gaps. Sheffield looked awful, we don't know how Monty will heal and Adams didn't look great. I hope they all come back with a vengeance but in case they don't, get some security.

    Keep Slappy. If he's amenable to a much reduced role, he's a great guy to have off the bench. Go into next season with Judge, Frazier and Hicks as your OF. (Unless you move Stanton and sign Harper.)

    The infield is solid. Andujar should improve defensively, as should Voit. Hopefully Bird turns it around and gets back to what we thought he would be.

    Sign Daniel Murphy.

    Let Britton walk and keep the rest of the pen.

    And the more positive note, this team wasn't even supposed to be here this year. 2019 and beyond is when they should really make noise. This was just a gift.
    you are 100% wrong about gary.. he redeemed himself in this series.. he showed the impact player he can be next year...

  13. #13
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    Nov 2008
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    NYC
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    i wont kill cashman on the stanton trade after only 1 year, he was there for the taking and we gave up nothing for the NL mvp, he was more of a overkill than a need but when judge went down he carried the team, i think with less oressure next year of trying to fit in he can do better and specially if we add say machado or harper of both, if we do sign harper he would absorb all the negativity placed on stanton IMO cause he has that mantra on him even though i love harper

  14. #14
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    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,573
    If the Nats were going to trade Scherzer they’d have done it at the deadline. Harper staying or leaving doesn’t have any bearing on his security with the team. The Nats have the pieces and money to compete in that division even without Harper.

  15. #15
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    Nov 2008
    Location
    NYC
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    23,334
    why everyone keeps talking about trading for max or degrom, i see no reason why they would trade them right now, DeGrom will win the NL cy young, if the mets didnt trade him with the mess year they had they wont do it now when they can build around him.

    same can be said for max


    what the yankees need to do is stop trading for stop gaps like the lynn and happ trade and just hoard players until an ace is available via trade and while i was all for not making trades in the past for halladay or lee , with this current core they should do those type of trades

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