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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    12,108

    Which young tandem is better in 18-19...Tatum/Brown or Kuzma/Ingram

    Who ya got?
    D. Rob gives Hakeem 40/16/7/4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_RP3SvZ4O8
    D. Rob gives Alonzo 52/14/7
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-NRWNX7Z7Y
    D. Rob gives the Pistons 34/10/10/10
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpT0QdUDIY
    D. Rob gives the Clippers 71/14
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck4KXAydlkE
    D. Rob gives Shaq 36/13/7/6
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XivZd3mRVw
    D. Rob gives Ewing 45/16
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Ddm9WVzjA
    IF YOU DON"T KNOW, NOW YOU KNOW

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    MASS
    Posts
    54,447
    tatum /brown. and I really didnt have to think about it. Tatum was super efficient, Brown is a great piece, both can play defense.

    Ingram is to nice. Like seriously too nice. He can take over a game but doesnt have that killer instinct to do it consistently. You give Ingram Kuzma's mindset, Ingram could be a top 20 player in the league, seriously. I love Kuz but hes got ways to go as a defender and has to get a little more efficient. Should be better with Bron.

    Tatum and Brown easy


    First Sim League Title!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    24,265
    Tatum Brown obvious.

    Boston is legit filthy, I'm expecting then to be right there with the Rox this year, if not better built for playoffs
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Rogers Centre
    Posts
    18,375
    Tatum/Brown and it isnít even close.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    15,669
    Both are good but itís easily Tatum and Brown and I think brown is starting to be underrated.

    ON3 LAST DANC3

    Quote Originally Posted by buckalis View Post
    Beal to the Bucks will happen at Feb. the 7th and not before... Jason Smith can't be traded along with another player until that date...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    28,697
    Tatum and Brown.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    23,901
    Tatum/Brown. They are better at pretty much every part of the game. It may not end that way, all 4 have a lot of room to grow.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    466
    Code:
    Code:
                                                                                                                                              
    Rk           Player  Season Age  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P% eFG%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
    1      Jaylen Brown 2017-18  21 70 70 30.7 5.3 11.5 .465 1.7 4.4 .395 3.6  7.1 .507 .540 2.1 3.3 .644 0.9 4.0 4.9 1.6 1.0 0.4 1.8 2.6 14.5
    2    Brandon Ingram 2017-18  20 59 59 33.5 6.1 12.9 .470 0.7 1.8 .390 5.4 11.1 .483 .497 3.3 4.8 .681 1.0 4.4 5.3 3.9 0.8 0.7 2.5 2.8 16.1
    3        Kyle Kuzma 2017-18  22 77 37 31.2 6.1 13.5 .450 2.1 5.6 .366 4.0  7.9 .511 .527 1.9 2.7 .707 1.1 5.1 6.3 1.8 0.6 0.4 1.8 2.1 16.1
    4      Jayson Tatum 2017-18  19 80 80 30.5 5.0 10.4 .475 1.3 3.0 .434 3.7  7.4 .492 .538 2.7 3.2 .826 0.6 4.4 5.0 1.6 1.0 0.7 1.4 2.1 13.9
    Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table Generated 9/11/2018.
    Looking at the per game stats they are very close, and it seems like you can argue both sides. However advanced stats provide a more in-depth view:

    Code:
    Code:
                                                                                                                                                
    Rk           Player  Season Age  G   MP  PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV%  USG% OWS DWS  WS   WS/48 OBPM DBPM  BPM VORP
    1      Jaylen Brown 2017-18  21 70 2152 13.6 .562 .381 .290  3.4 14.0  8.8  8.5  1.6  1.0 12.0  21.4 1.2 3.2 4.5    .100 -0.6  0.4 -0.2  1.0
    2    Brandon Ingram 2017-18  20 59 1975 13.8 .536 .138 .371  3.1 13.8  8.5 17.7  1.1  1.8 14.4  22.2 1.0 1.8 2.8    .068 -1.6  0.3 -1.3  0.4
    3        Kyle Kuzma 2017-18  22 77 2401 14.2 .549 .418 .200  3.9 17.4 10.7  9.1  1.0  1.1 11.0  22.5 1.5 2.3 3.8    .077 -0.3 -1.0 -1.3  0.4
    4      Jayson Tatum 2017-18  19 80 2438 15.3 .586 .290 .309  2.3 15.6  9.0  8.3  1.7  2.0 10.7  19.5 3.0 4.0 7.1    .139 -0.5  1.5  1.0  1.8
    Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table Generated 9/11/2018.
    As expected Tatum and Brown provide a more efficient duo, and defensively are better as a pair (due to Kuzma's lacking on that end of the floor). I think saying that the Boston duo is far better or that "its not even close" is a little far fetched. They are better overall, but not by much.

    I think Ingram has the highest ceiling out of the 4, but I agree with the remark in regards to his attitude and mentality - not enough Mamba. Meanwhile, Tatum seems to have the needed mindset to become a dominant force in this league. Tatum still 19 and Ingram barely turned 21 recently, so yeah...lots of growing for those two. Scary.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    391
    Quote Originally Posted by JWorthy42 View Post
    Code:
    Code:
                                                                                                                                              
    Rk           Player  Season Age  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P  2PA  2P% eFG%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
    1      Jaylen Brown 2017-18  21 70 70 30.7 5.3 11.5 .465 1.7 4.4 .395 3.6  7.1 .507 .540 2.1 3.3 .644 0.9 4.0 4.9 1.6 1.0 0.4 1.8 2.6 14.5
    2    Brandon Ingram 2017-18  20 59 59 33.5 6.1 12.9 .470 0.7 1.8 .390 5.4 11.1 .483 .497 3.3 4.8 .681 1.0 4.4 5.3 3.9 0.8 0.7 2.5 2.8 16.1
    3        Kyle Kuzma 2017-18  22 77 37 31.2 6.1 13.5 .450 2.1 5.6 .366 4.0  7.9 .511 .527 1.9 2.7 .707 1.1 5.1 6.3 1.8 0.6 0.4 1.8 2.1 16.1
    4      Jayson Tatum 2017-18  19 80 80 30.5 5.0 10.4 .475 1.3 3.0 .434 3.7  7.4 .492 .538 2.7 3.2 .826 0.6 4.4 5.0 1.6 1.0 0.7 1.4 2.1 13.9
    Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table Generated 9/11/2018.
    Looking at the per game stats they are very close, and it seems like you can argue both sides. However advanced stats provide a more in-depth view:

    Code:
    Code:
                                                                                                                                                
    Rk           Player  Season Age  G   MP  PER  TS% 3PAr  FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV%  USG% OWS DWS  WS   WS/48 OBPM DBPM  BPM VORP
    1      Jaylen Brown 2017-18  21 70 2152 13.6 .562 .381 .290  3.4 14.0  8.8  8.5  1.6  1.0 12.0  21.4 1.2 3.2 4.5    .100 -0.6  0.4 -0.2  1.0
    2    Brandon Ingram 2017-18  20 59 1975 13.8 .536 .138 .371  3.1 13.8  8.5 17.7  1.1  1.8 14.4  22.2 1.0 1.8 2.8    .068 -1.6  0.3 -1.3  0.4
    3        Kyle Kuzma 2017-18  22 77 2401 14.2 .549 .418 .200  3.9 17.4 10.7  9.1  1.0  1.1 11.0  22.5 1.5 2.3 3.8    .077 -0.3 -1.0 -1.3  0.4
    4      Jayson Tatum 2017-18  19 80 2438 15.3 .586 .290 .309  2.3 15.6  9.0  8.3  1.7  2.0 10.7  19.5 3.0 4.0 7.1    .139 -0.5  1.5  1.0  1.8
    Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table Generated 9/11/2018.
    As expected Tatum and Brown provide a more efficient duo, and defensively are better as a pair (due to Kuzma's lacking on that end of the floor). I think saying that the Boston duo is far better or that "its not even close" is a little far fetched. They are better overall, but not by much.

    I think Ingram has the highest ceiling out of the 4, but I agree with the remark in regards to his attitude and mentality - not enough Mamba. Meanwhile, Tatum seems to have the needed mindset to become a dominant force in this league. Tatum still 19 and Ingram barely turned 21 recently, so yeah...lots of growing for those two. Scary.
    Tell ya this much, getting Kuzma @ 27 was THE steal of the draft last season. I'm sure Boston hopes they get even close to the same out of their 27th pick this season. I'll take Brown & Tatum comfortably; and I think Brown is the most underrated. He's likely the best defender of the four and last season was simply a complete 180 from his rookie year, in every way. One other thing is we've yet to see Ingram & Kuzma in the playoffs. You never know how that's gonna go first time around for young guys. Tatum & Brown were flat-out terrific in the 20 or so postseason games for Boston last year, around 18 PPG each.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,064
    I think OG and siakim, the bench mob to have a better year

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    18,358
    Kuzma is such a valuable piece, man. He is signed for at least three more years and will only be making $9-10 million in that span. He will be aged 25 in which he should be entering his prime. It fits right into the Lakers timeline because by then, LeBron probably opts out of his contract and Lakers decide to move on.

    Honestly, I think I'll take Kuzma and Ingram. Tatum and Brown were huge beneficaries playing under Brad Stevens and you just have to wonder how much better Kuzma and Ingram would have been if Brad was their coach. Not to mention that Ingram likely has the higher potential. It's very close and they're all young and talented but I just think Kuzma and Ingram haven't had a chance to play in a system where they have a set role. There was a stretch when Lonzo was injured and Ingram averaged 19/5/5 on 55% shooting for 12 games.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    23,901
    It's easier to put up "better" numbers on a losing team, so if their stats were equal it would still be Tatum/Brown.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    18,358
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    It's easier to put up "better" numbers on a losing team, so if their stats were equal it would still be Tatum/Brown.
    Take Tatum/Brown out and Kuzma/Ingram out of their respective team and there is no debate as to which team is better. So your "losing" team argument only works if you provide some context as to why they are losing or winning. Also, Tatum and Brown had a lot of opportunities to put up better numbers as well since they took Hayward's minutes and shot attempts so let's not make it seem as if they didn't get as much or better opportunities than Kuzma and Ingram. We all saw what happened to Crowder when he left Boston so there's evidence to support that Brad Steven's system is beneficial to every player on the roster.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sin City Raiders
    Posts
    40,449
    LAL young Core > Boston young core

    And itís not even close.

    Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, Hart is too much

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    391
    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    Take Tatum/Brown out and Kuzma/Ingram out of their respective team and there is no debate as to which team is better. So your "losing" team argument only works if you provide some context as to why they are losing or winning. Also, Tatum and Brown had a lot of opportunities to put up better numbers as well since they took Hayward's minutes and shot attempts so let's not make it seem as if they didn't get as much or better opportunities than Kuzma and Ingram. We all saw what happened to Crowder when he left Boston so there's evidence to support that Brad Steven's system is beneficial to every player on the roster.
    Who was taking the opportunities away from Kuzma and Ingram last season, Luol Deng?

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