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  1. #7546
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Feel free but up to this point there hasn't been and you seemingly are missing obvious points/not fully aware of the data out there like costs in areas.
    Uh huh.

    I just wonder if it's worth my time to explain basic math to someone who can't just check this on his own and compare to his own investments.

    You can use your Google machine where this is very simply laid out ya know. It's not exactly huge investment theory.

    Investopedia probably even has this simply laid out for you.

  2. #7547
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    Do you guys think...

    stock!

    Real estate!

    Diversified!

    Lol

  3. #7548
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    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Uh huh.

    I just wonder if it's worth my time to explain basic math to someone who can't just check this on his own and compare to his own investments.

    You can use your Google machine where this is very simply laid out ya know. It's not exactly huge investment theory.

    Investopedia probably even has this simply laid out for you.
    Haha you are the only one so far who has seemed incapable of doing basic math as well. All you have is these absurd projections pretending I am not the one laying out info with actual data/articles backing up what I say and we have covered very simple math you refuse to account for.

    Houses are a solid investment for many, no matter what some random guy on the internet who can't back up what he says in any way tries to tell us. I have covered renting out as an example, we could also cover building it up to flip. There are many ways this can go while gaining value outside of just it building the value over time. Itís not necessarily the largest roi possible but it can be a solid investment all the same
    Last edited by mngopher35; 05-26-2021 at 10:47 PM.

  4. #7549
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Do you guys think...

    stock!

    Real estate!

    Diversified!

    Lol
    Lulz. You're the one saying that owning a home is bad investment. We're not the ones that's got some splainin to do.

    And for what it is worth...yes. Having your investments spread across multiple resources is the exact definition of diversified.
    Last edited by dbroncsinmo; 05-26-2021 at 11:16 PM.

  5. #7550
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    https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecoll...artment/%3famp

    Really love this line

    "But your primary residence isn't a real estate investment."

    Waka Waka.

    #Math
    Last edited by MRSpock; 05-27-2021 at 01:33 AM.

  6. #7551
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    Alright I am going to try this another way one time because reading back really the main issue is calling a house a **** investment type stuff and continuing to defend it. You implied to someone calling it a good investment that it meant they know nothing about investing. Then you mentioned doing math which has been repeated but without actually doing any work/showing anything. Our discussion has had a decent amount of this but not much responding to my points.

    Many people in here have already described many ways their houses have been investments or ways it can be in the end positively. It is not always a sure thing. No investment is going to be. Many people are capable of understanding the markets and finding value for housing similar to stock though (and many get lucky too of course). Making cheaper add ons that increase the value by much more than what it takes to put in is another way to add to the roi as well come selling time. The value of potentially saving on rent compared to average can also be there as well for many depending on where you live. If you plan to rent out your property that adds another element to the investment as well giving passive income, which you can choose to reinvest in stocks as I noted.

    Not all of this is going to work all the time and there are risks just like stock market has them. Overall I would agree that a large portion/majority in stocks is a good idea imo (especially if younger and going to let sit). I even like what you indicated as a safe choice both index fund wise and specific one. That doesn't mean houses/real estate can't be a solid investment as well at all though. Especially when you consider all of the value it brings as well like potentially not having to live in a cheap apartment with a lot of neighbors. So for many it might not even be much of an investment other than just hoping that market carries it but it also can be for many others as well it all depends on situation like I have mostly been saying.

    Do you disagree with any of this even Mr Spock? Your rhetoric makes it seem like you would but really you don't just flat out say it either you moreso focus on an index that would be better (which I don't disagree with, other than making it finite as for sure always is and not acknowledging examples where it might not be the case). So what would you disagree with if anything? I think this is all most have been saying, it can be a solid investment for many people.

  7. #7552
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Alright I am going to try this another way one time because reading back really the main issue is calling a house a **** investment type stuff and continuing to defend it. You implied to someone calling it a good investment that it meant they know nothing about investing. Then you mentioned doing math which has been repeated but without actually doing any work/showing anything. Our discussion has had a decent amount of this but not much responding to my points.

    Many people in here have already described many ways their houses have been investments or ways it can be in the end positively. It is not always a sure thing. No investment is going to be. Many people are capable of understanding the markets and finding value for housing similar to stock though (and many get lucky too of course). Making cheaper add ons that increase the value by much more than what it takes to put in is another way to add to the roi as well come selling time. The value of potentially saving on rent compared to average can also be there as well for many depending on where you live. If you plan to rent out your property that adds another element to the investment as well giving passive income, which you can choose to reinvest in stocks as I noted.

    Not all of this is going to work all the time and there are risks just like stock market has them. Overall I would agree that a large portion/majority in stocks is a good idea imo (especially if younger and going to let sit). I even like what you indicated as a safe choice both index fund wise and specific one. That doesn't mean houses/real estate can't be a solid investment as well at all though. Especially when you consider all of the value it brings as well like potentially not having to live in a cheap apartment with a lot of neighbors. So for many it might not even be much of an investment other than just hoping that market carries it but it also can be for many others as well it all depends on situation like I have mostly been saying.

    Do you disagree with any of this even Mr Spock? Your rhetoric makes it seem like you would but really you don't just flat out say it either you moreso focus on an index that would be better (which I don't disagree with, other than making it finite as for sure always is and not acknowledging examples where it might not be the case). So what would you disagree with if anything? I think this is all most have been saying, it can be a solid investment for many people.
    Sure. If you like owning a home or want to own a home then have at it. I said that at the beginning. Want to start a family and want a family home. More power to you. Or maybe you just like gardening and having more freedom.

    My argument is that you shouldn't do it because you find it a great investment financially. Because it isn't. Unless you REALLY plan on investing in real estate beyond that. Whether flipping or renting out 2nd 3rd and 4th houses.

  8. #7553
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecoll...artment/%3famp

    Really love this line

    "But your primary residence isn't a real estate investment."

    Waka Waka.

    #Math
    I have quite literally given an example of a primary residence also being used as a rental/for passive income so that is different than what he is talking about and ignored in the #math. This is a single example specifically noting it won't be thought of as an investment which doesn't overly apply to much I have mentioned...

    This is a singular example although I think it outlines a very common thing that happens in reality and many don't necessarily plan on thinking of it as an investment as noted either. Assuming it is an investment that will work without doing any actual work/research isn't a good idea and thinking of it differently than an investment entirely is certain to further the lack of return. Many also do account for it though and see it as an investment instead of just that. I do not even think you read through the entire article though lol. I will quote it below for you:

    I want to clarify something here: real estate can be a great investment. But your primary residence isn't a real estate investment. You're going in and buying this property with a completely different mindset, and a completely different purpose, than you would with investment real estate.

    That's not to say that you can't boost the return of homeownership. For example, you can house hack - which we've covered in-depth here: How To Get Started House Hacking. This is where you leverage areas of your home to earn revenue. For example, renting a bedroom, renting spare space in your garage or yard, or even renting your entire house if you're on vacation.

    However, these unconventional living situations aren't for everyone. But I think that's a common theme in this article. Unconventional - you can rent an be better off financially if you invest the difference. Or understanding that primary home ownership isn't a straightforward path to wealth.

    He points out many different things that I already have about how it can be more of an investment haha. You are still only looking at specific parts you want that fit your narrative and are ignoring the whole picture his point was more for people who only see it as a primary residence with a different type of mindset. I would agree if you are less concerned with it as an investment and not thinking about it like that you are less likely to get much of a return. If you are crunching the numbers and doing some research while willing to put in time/effort you are more likely to succeed with it as an investment (just like stocks often, many are misinformed which is why averages lower this is true of most investments you need to be putting in time/effort/research into how to make it work).
    Last edited by mngopher35; 05-27-2021 at 01:57 AM.

  9. #7554
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Sure. If you like owning a home or want to own a home then have at it. I said that at the beginning. Want to start a family and want a family home. More power to you. Or maybe you just like gardening and having more freedom.

    My argument is that you shouldn't do it because you find it a great investment financially. Because it isn't. Unless you REALLY plan on investing in real estate beyond that. Whether flipping or renting out 2nd 3rd and 4th houses.
    My examples have all been including that last part lol and you kept arguing against it and saying things like #math. The entire point has been if you think of it as an investment and use it as such it can be. For each situation it will be different.

    I have no idea why you were arguing so much

  10. #7555
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Both are good for investment and diversifying is the way to go IMO. Buy a house you can live in and it will gain value over time as you do so. Invest in the stock market with the rest of your available savings/investment $. Over time odds are both will gain value and if housing or stock market explode you will be ready to benefit either way.
    This is not agreeing with me.

    And no
    I'm saying buy more homes and rent them out. Not rent out part of the home you live in.

    If you still look at being a homeowner as investing in real estate then we don't agree.

    But I feel like you're kind of wiggling away from your original position. But whatever.

  11. #7556
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    This is not agreeing with me.

    And no
    I'm saying buy more homes and rent them out. Not rent out part of the home you live in.

    If you still look at being a homeowner as investing in real estate then we don't agree.

    But I feel like you're kind of wiggling away from your original position. But whatever.
    Lol not at all, what is the difference in the income if I am living there or if I am not? Whether or not I live at my house or not the rent I receive from it is still passive income and can still be used towards investing. Speaking of math...

  12. #7557
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    You can does not mean you will. The issue with stocks for many is the variability, it is much easier to lose on your investment. This can be person dependent and it might work for you but not everyone is capable of understanding the market and doing things correctly. If you rent and your initially stock investments are bad what do you have now? Not much. Most people end up making less than the average as it pertains to stock and many even end up losing. It is just riskier especially with human emotion/decision making involved.

    With a house you can end up with a mortgage/taxes similar to renting in the area (so monthly your expenses are similar), have a roommate paying you to live there each month (you now are gaining an extra say 700/month to invest in stocks anyways), and the investment will also be growing over time as well.

    It really depends what you are looking for at the end of the day. Either strategy can work but that's why I noted it is often best to diversify imo.
    Also you literally never responded to that post until now, only Brett did and I shared the data on housing averages for him to back up what I said at the time already. Our interaction started after that post with this which literally used the example of renting out so it has been from my first quote of you which you then responded to. You have just been going insane trying to argue against a reality many have lived for some odd reason. I have not changed my tune in our discussion this was the point from the start, I have always been noting to you if you see it as an investment it can be and that it will depend on what you are looking for.

  13. #7558
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    Last edited by Crovash; 05-27-2021 at 03:45 PM.

  14. #7559
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    Lulz. You're the one saying that owning a home is bad investment. We're not the ones that's got some splainin to do.

    And for what it is worth...yes. Having your investments spread across multiple resources is the exact definition of diversified.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umgUDUxHKfY&t=10s

  15. #7560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Exactly


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