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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    didn't you vote for Trump?
    Yes I did.

    Didn't you vote for Hillary?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    So to me here's the thing:
    Dems and the Left want to argue for all of that at once....and that's what's extreme.

    Get on the same page, change one thing, and let it become a cascade.

    For example:
    Criminal Justice Reform - For one election cycle pick up this agenda. Clean up the system. Become stricter with private prisons that they must maintain a certain level of living. No more minimum sentences on certain crimes. I have long argued don't put the user in jail. Assign a social worker, put them in a short term rehab program, and use them to find the dealers. Its more important to get the people distributing off the streets than the people using.

    Then when you are spending less money on imprisoning people, you have more funds available to spend on gun control and fighting the NRA.

    As for the education, I think it is a bit extreme to go with that, but what we need is more programs like we have for teachers where they have loan forgiveness. What about things like that for people that work in public service that got a college degree? Like I worked for 5 years for local government as a city planner. Why don't I get any forgiveness.

    Anyways, take on one issue at a time, not all of them and then you don't seem extreme.
    Look, I don't think anyone on the left is delusional enough to think that anything is going to happen suddenly or that you can snap your fingers and reshape the entire US economy over night. Of course that's not happening. Whatever it is that any progressive candidate wants is going to take a ton of time and effort to achieve. But you get there quicker by electing progressives and not worrying about "working with moderates" or whatever. Because that gets people talking about it. That puts pressure on moderate Dems to support their colleagues who support more popular progressive policy. It normalizes things. If Bernie was president maybe nothing significant has changed by now, but you damn well know progress is being made.

    Give me a dreamer who's passionate and willing to fight over someone who likes the status quo and loves working across the aisle. Over time you might end up with a better government and a better country.

    Rome wasn't built in a day. And if anyone says it's not worth voting for a candidate because it's unreasonable to assume they can build Rome in a day, well, that's garbage. And they probably just don't support the cause.
    Hello there! Welcome to ManRam v8.00.
    Patch notes: This version is nice, funny, cool & good™ now

  3. #63
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    Jun 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    extremist in the sense that she wants real change. That is tough to get past 2 branches of govt, and the people. She also hasn't been worn down by politics yet, so the vibrant woman you see now without a clue to help fund her ideas will be a different person in a few years likely. It's easy to say, "slash military". It's another thing to get that done.
    That doesn't mean we should just stop saying it. Say it enough and maybe we'll have enough in power to actually do it.

    Not saying it, on the other hand, pretty much ensures it doesn't
    Yankees Farm System

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    true... she isn't an extremist... she is simply a pretty face with no depth to her "beliefs"
    Hey Brewers, if your curious why AOC said what she said to Ben Shapiro, here you go buddy!
    Hello there! Welcome to ManRam v8.00.
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  5. #65
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    Jun 2012
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    11,567
    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    So to me here's the thing:
    Dems and the Left want to argue for all of that at once....and that's what's extreme.

    Get on the same page, change one thing, and let it become a cascade.

    For example:
    Criminal Justice Reform - For one election cycle pick up this agenda. Clean up the system. Become stricter with private prisons that they must maintain a certain level of living. No more minimum sentences on certain crimes. I have long argued don't put the user in jail. Assign a social worker, put them in a short term rehab program, and use them to find the dealers. Its more important to get the people distributing off the streets than the people using.

    Then when you are spending less money on imprisoning people, you have more funds available to spend on gun control and fighting the NRA.

    As for the education, I think it is a bit extreme to go with that, but what we need is more programs like we have for teachers where they have loan forgiveness. What about things like that for people that work in public service that got a college degree? Like I worked for 5 years for local government as a city planner. Why don't I get any forgiveness.

    Anyways, take on one issue at a time, not all of them and then you don't seem extreme.
    Take on what you can given your district. You can afford to push for all of those in the right areas. Others you may need to relent on some of those so that you can still push forward with some of the more important ones.
    Yankees Farm System

  6. #66
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    Jun 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    I pretty much agree with everything you say except loan forgiveness.

    If you give loan forgiveness to anyone let me know where I go for a refund on the amount of dough I spent putting my kids through college.

    No special deals for loan forgiveness just because someone takes on a job with local or federal government. Who benefits society more…a parks department employee, a bus driver or a doctor. Obviously the doctor but you're looking for loan forgiveness for the other two. Ridiculous.

    And regarding loan forgiveness…this is why conservatives are against plans like Whacky Bernie and the kid from the Bronx pushing for free college. As soon as they get that, they'll turn to loan forgiveness. And don't think that won't happen.
    There should be loan forgiveness, at least for the equivalent amount of tuition and books. Just as there should be free college. We shouldn't be driving people into insane debt that cripples them for decades just so they can be a functioning part of this society.
    Yankees Farm System

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Yes I did.

    Didn't you vote for Hillary?
    Nope, I don't vote for Republican-lite, which wall street democrats are. I just find it funny that you call her dumb, thus unworthy to hold a political office, even at a low level when you voted for Trump for high position. The dude glorifies stupidity.
    Last edited by WES445; 08-10-2018 at 11:44 AM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Hey Brewers, if your curious why AOC said what she said to Ben Shapiro, here you go buddy!

    Classic … it only took a page and a half...


    I am sure you are enamored with her deep understanding of the issues.

  9. #69
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    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is an idiot. free stuff for everybody!!

    she doesn't want to debate with Ben Shapiro or Candace Owens but can address Ben in a tweet.

    this is Ben's response..

    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Either care about all of it like a decent human being or shut the **** up and stop selective outrage based on whether it serves your political purposes.

    a person is smart. people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals.
    #TrumpDerangementSyndrome
    the anti-Trump movement seems to be getting dumber

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    There should be loan forgiveness, at least for the equivalent amount of tuition and books. Just as there should be free college. We shouldn't be driving people into insane debt that cripples them for decades just so they can be a functioning part of this society.
    so if someone has a "desire" to go to college it should be free?

  11. #71
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    Jul 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    There should be loan forgiveness, at least for the equivalent amount of tuition and books. Just as there should be free college. We shouldn't be driving people into insane debt that cripples them for decades just so they can be a functioning part of this society.
    I am not sure about loan forgiveness, college as currently constructed is not a right. I am all for making colleges more affordable, but that also means shifting them from a business, to more of a public entity. At that point, you could tier tuition costs to meet incoming affordability needs. Obviously private universities remain a business model, and they also get to select their accepted applicants, under guidance of the law obviously.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  12. #72
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    I think she should focus on repping her district, work on big picture after she has a voting record and experience and overall avoid the media and nonsense trolls.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #73
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    Mar 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    There should be loan forgiveness, at least for the equivalent amount of tuition and books. Just as there should be free college. We shouldn't be driving people into insane debt that cripples them for decades just so they can be a functioning part of this society.
    Come on now. Think it through a little.

    Other than air, nothing is free.

    Anything that is "public" is paid for by the public. That's you. Do you own a house? Do you pay sales tax? Do you have a legitimate job? Do you buy anything?

    Nothing is free.

    I'll go along with free college when…

    Professors are willing to work for minimum wage and are not protected by tenure. Because, you know, they're in it for the kids, the joy pf teaching. Not the money. Not gonna happen.

    Football and basketball coaches will work for a reasonable salary because "they just love of the sport." Not gonna happen. (Fun fact…in 40 of the 50 states, the highest paid "public" employee is a coach. Think about that.)

    Colleges stop coming up with reasons to build the next great research facility (that rarely produces anything.)

    Colleges come up with ways of getting the kids through in less time and the kids push to get through in that shorter time. It's rarely 4 years and the kids don't mind…they like prolonging the party.

    Colleges get reasonable with their expenses…why are books still so expensive if everything can be done electronically.

    Kids become reasonable with their expectations. There are tons of kids in college that have no business being there. Some would be better off in trade schools for a much shorter time and doing manual (GASP!!!) trade work. Parents should not be shocked if little Johnny wants to be a plumber instead of a lawyer.

    Bottom line,, freee college is just absurd.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    I think she should focus on repping her district, work on big picture after she has a voting record and experience and overall avoid the media and nonsense trolls.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    wow... well reasoned and thoughtful

    not surprised considering the source

  15. #75
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    Mar 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Nope, I don't vote for Republican-lite, which wall street democrats are. I just find it funny that you call her dumb, thus unworthy to hold a political office, even at a low level when you voted for Trump for high position. The dude glorifies stupidity.
    What a lot of people still don't get is…

    1 that Trump got a ton of votes because people hate Hillary and see her for what she is. Many trump voters (myself included) would have preferred another republican to win. Many of us would not vote for Trump in 2020 primaries if there are any. Hillary is just an awful candidate and a horrible person.

    2. almost any other Democrat would have beaten Trump. Whacky Bernie probably. Joe Biden probably would have beaten Trump by 10 points. (Just an observation…no proof, articles, graphs, charts.) I would think that this sticks in the craw of Democratic leadership…but, hey, they paved the way for Hillary every step of the way.

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