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  1. #5761
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Yeah I think she's a good politician because she tweets. Smart point
    Why do you think she is?

  2. #5762
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    I mean i know yall like to ignore every achievement Pelosi has made and blow everything AOC has done up... So what makes her a good politician

  3. #5763
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    I mean i know yall like to ignore every achievement Pelosi has made and blow everything AOC has done up... So what makes her a good politician
    Do you deny that the left has a much more prominent voice than say 5 years ago? Do you deny that policies like the GND, m4a, student loan forgiveness, and leftist economic policies as a whole have not gained a massive amount of traction on the left in recent years?

    No. You can't.

    Ok. So then tell me why you think that's the case. Why the massive shift in public opinion on these issues? I mean, the right always acknowledges how leftist politics are becoming more mainstream except when anyone is talking about the women that support and promote those policies.

    So if not for the advocacy of Sanders and The Squad, what do you attribute the normalization and rising popularity of true progressive/leftist/socialist policy?

    She is in no way like Trump but we'll go with this anyways. I hate Trump's politics. I think they are both detrimental and cruel. But I can't deny his impact on the political climate. Just like you can't deny the impact of the modern leftists.

    As I said in the other thread, leftists have no political power. "Big Medicare For All" is not a thing. "Big Green Energy" can't compete with the othet lobbies. There's no money backing eliminating college debt. There's no real anti-war movement and certainly few things funding it. So how does the left make inroads? Promoting popular policy. Advocating. Showing how things can be better. They have to win in the court if public opinion and, for the last time, you can not deny the results.

    We're almost at 6000 posts. Crazy how much time people waste talking about a failed congresswoman.....

    Why are Omar and AOC the only two people it seems like anyone wants to talk about here. Surely because they're irrelevant.

    This feels like an argument no one ever tries to make about anyone else but these two. Strange....
    Last edited by ManRam; 11-30-2020 at 10:00 PM.
    HELLO

  4. #5764
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    I mean i know yall like to ignore every achievement Pelosi has made and blow everything AOC has done up... So what makes her a good politician
    Name em.
    HELLO

  5. #5765
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Name em.
    On second thought, don't. Multiple people can accomplish things. Especially if they're trying to accomplish different things. I guess I'm not sure what the relevancy here is. I'm not arguing anything about Pelosi. Irrelevant to AOC's effectiveness.
    HELLO

  6. #5766
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Do you deny that the left has a much more prominent voice than say 5 years ago? Do you deny that policies like the GND, m4a, student loan forgiveness, and leftist economic policies as a whole have not gained a massive amount of traction on the left in recent years?

    No. You can't.

    Ok. So then tell me why you think that's the case. Why the massive shift in public opinion on these issues? I mean, the right always acknowledges how leftist politics are becoming more mainstream except when anyone is talking about the women that support and promote those policies.

    So if not for the advocacy of Sanders and The Squad, what do you attribute the normalization and rising popularity of true progressive/leftist/socialist policy?

    She is in no way like Trump but we'll go with this anyways. I hate Trump's politics. I think they are both detrimental and cruel. But I can't deny his impact on the political climate. Just like you can't deny the impact of the modern leftists.

    As I said in the other thread, leftists have no political power. "Big Medicare For All" is not a thing. "Big Green Energy" can't compete with the othet lobbies. There's no money backing eliminating college debt. There's no real anti-war movement and certainly few things funding it. So how does the left make inroads? Promoting popular policy. Advocating. Showing how things can be better. They have to win in the court if public opinion and, for the last time, you can not deny the results.

    We're almost at 6000 posts. Crazy how much time people waste talking about a failed congresswoman.....

    Why are Omar and AOC the only two people it seems like anyone wants to talk about here. Surely because they're irrelevant.

    This feels like an argument no one ever tries to make about anyone else but these two. Strange....
    Assuming by "the left" you mean the furthest left sure. I consider the left anything left of center, but that's besides the point.

    That's all fantastic. I'm so glad she is gaining "awareness". It's honestly adorable. The problem is that the real person who has spent decades in congress and pushed these things into the forefront is not named Alexandria but instead Bernie. So that whole point is moot.

    And can you tell me what's the point of pushing things that will NEVER pass? Honestly. Especially when the DemSocs seem to do anything and everything to undermine everyone who isn't one of them.... Which is 6 ****in people in congress BTW lol.

    The thing is, the right will say whatever till the policies start getting pushed. Then guess what happens? A tidal wave of misinformation and propaganda. Look what happened in the 20 seconds that the GND was in the media because AOC decided to push that ****. People thought cars were going to be outlawed by 2020. 0 votes in the senate. ****ING 0. Granted many people decided to just say "present" because the GOP pushed the vote so they could throw it out instantly.

    So what's the point of that ManRam? Please tell me. Where was the big outcry from the people to push the all loved GND? Why did AOC make some big deal for Nancy to push a bill that everyone knew had a 0% chance at actually passing?

    I keep hearing all this "everyone wants our policies" BS then the GND gets sent to the senate, and gets hammered. I didn't hear the giant roar of disapproval from I'm sure the 90% of people that want it, according to some poll that doesn't matter. It was Pelosi's fault for not backing it right? Protesters even showed up. Then boom... What happens. Reality hits the Dem socks right in the demcock. The GOP do not care what you or the people want. They will say whatever in order to smash it into ****in pieces.

    You guys have 6 seats in all of congress. One in the senate. Bernie. The only one that seems to be immune from any criticism. THen you got 5 people... 4 of which are in seats that have been held by Dems for over 70 YEARS! Yet you guys act like you're taking over the god damn planet.

    And cut the crap of this "no money" backing them. She's backed by a ton of people. She brings in a ton of money. And BTW that's a good thing. There's nothing wrong with that. It's the reality of politics, and it's not going to change without a huge shift in political power.

    When I see AOC I see a millennial who is way to interested in what people she likes think of her, and thinks words mean more than actions. Lincoln lied a lot to get **** done. He conned a lot of people. He didn't attack slave owners. He didn't call people immoral for owning slaves. He distanced himself from abolitionists. Because he knew the rhetoric was divisive and ineffective.

  7. #5767
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Assuming by "the left" you mean the furthest left sure. I consider the left anything left of center, but that's besides the point.

    That's all fantastic. I'm so glad she is gaining "awareness". It's honestly adorable. The problem is that the real person who has spent decades in congress and pushed these things into the forefront is not named Alexandria but instead Bernie. So that whole point is moot.

    And can you tell me what's the point of pushing things that will NEVER pass? Honestly. Especially when the DemSocs seem to do anything and everything to undermine everyone who isn't one of them.... Which is 6 ****in people in congress BTW lol.

    The thing is, the right will say whatever till the policies start getting pushed. Then guess what happens? A tidal wave of misinformation and propaganda. Look what happened in the 20 seconds that the GND was in the media because AOC decided to push that ****. People thought cars were going to be outlawed by 2020. 0 votes in the senate. ****ING 0. Granted many people decided to just say "present" because the GOP pushed the vote so they could throw it out instantly.

    So what's the point of that ManRam? Please tell me. Where was the big outcry from the people to push the all loved GND? Why did AOC make some big deal for Nancy to push a bill that everyone knew had a 0% chance at actually passing?

    I keep hearing all this "everyone wants our policies" BS then the GND gets sent to the senate, and gets hammered. I didn't hear the giant roar of disapproval from I'm sure the 90% of people that want it, according to some poll that doesn't matter. It was Pelosi's fault for not backing it right? Protesters even showed up. Then boom... What happens. Reality hits the Dem socks right in the demcock. The GOP do not care what you or the people want. They will say whatever in order to smash it into ****in pieces.

    You guys have 6 seats in all of congress. One in the senate. Bernie. The only one that seems to be immune from any criticism. THen you got 5 people... 4 of which are in seats that have been held by Dems for over 70 YEARS! Yet you guys act like you're taking over the god damn planet.

    And cut the crap of this "no money" backing them. She's backed by a ton of people. She brings in a ton of money. And BTW that's a good thing. There's nothing wrong with that. It's the reality of politics, and it's not going to change without a huge shift in political power.

    When I see AOC I see a millennial who is way to interested in what people she likes think of her, and thinks words mean more than actions. Lincoln lied a lot to get **** done. He conned a lot of people. He didn't attack slave owners. He didn't call people immoral for owning slaves. He distanced himself from abolitionists. Because he knew the rhetoric was divisive and ineffective.
    Maybe itís consistent principles? Maybe he believes those things are the best policies?

    You have to have people shooting for the stars and arguing for whatís the best solution even if itís not the solution that can get passed today. Itís all about moving the Overton Window to the left, itís how the right has managed to demonize unions and glorify big business while making people believe the government is the problem.

  8. #5768
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    On second thought, don't. Multiple people can accomplish things. Especially if they're trying to accomplish different things. I guess I'm not sure what the relevancy here is. I'm not arguing anything about Pelosi. Irrelevant to AOC's effectiveness.
    I already listed a few, and you're the one that brought up Pelosi and Schumer. Ironically enough Schumer was one of the first people to endorse AOC. But I guess he aint woke enough for this new wave.

    So you're reasoning for her being a good politician is "raising awareness". Even though she really hasn't. She reinforced uber liberals opinions they already had.

    Sounds like a great goal for an activist. A terrible goal for a politician.

  9. #5769
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    Maybe itís consistent principles? Maybe he believes those things are the best policies?

    You have to have people shooting for the stars and arguing for whatís the best solution even if itís not the solution that can get passed today. Itís all about moving the Overton Window to the left, itís how the right has managed to demonize unions and glorify big business while making people believe the government is the problem.
    The Overton window is a garbage theory that has 0 evidence backing its effectiveness and was created by a nutjob Libertarian.

  10. #5770
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Assuming by "the left" you mean the furthest left sure. I consider the left anything left of center, but that's besides the point.

    That's all fantastic. I'm so glad she is gaining "awareness". It's honestly adorable. The problem is that the real person who has spent decades in congress and pushed these things into the forefront is not named Alexandria but instead Bernie. So that whole point is moot.

    And can you tell me what's the point of pushing things that will NEVER pass? Honestly. Especially when the DemSocs seem to do anything and everything to undermine everyone who isn't one of them.... Which is 6 ****in people in congress BTW lol.

    The thing is, the right will say whatever till the policies start getting pushed. Then guess what happens? A tidal wave of misinformation and propaganda. Look what happened in the 20 seconds that the GND was in the media because AOC decided to push that ****. People thought cars were going to be outlawed by 2020. 0 votes in the senate. ****ING 0. Granted many people decided to just say "present" because the GOP pushed the vote so they could throw it out instantly.

    So what's the point of that ManRam? Please tell me. Where was the big outcry from the people to push the all loved GND? Why did AOC make some big deal for Nancy to push a bill that everyone knew had a 0% chance at actually passing?

    I keep hearing all this "everyone wants our policies" BS then the GND gets sent to the senate, and gets hammered. I didn't hear the giant roar of disapproval from I'm sure the 90% of people that want it, according to some poll that doesn't matter. It was Pelosi's fault for not backing it right? Protesters even showed up. Then boom... What happens. Reality hits the Dem socks right in the demcock. The GOP do not care what you or the people want. They will say whatever in order to smash it into ****in pieces.

    You guys have 6 seats in all of congress. One in the senate. Bernie. The only one that seems to be immune from any criticism. THen you got 5 people... 4 of which are in seats that have been held by Dems for over 70 YEARS! Yet you guys act like you're taking over the god damn planet.

    And cut the crap of this "no money" backing them. She's backed by a ton of people. She brings in a ton of money. And BTW that's a good thing. There's nothing wrong with that. It's the reality of politics, and it's not going to change without a huge shift in political power.

    When I see AOC I see a millennial who is way to interested in what people she likes think of her, and thinks words mean more than actions. Lincoln lied a lot to get **** done. He conned a lot of people. He didn't attack slave owners. He didn't call people immoral for owning slaves. He distanced himself from abolitionists. Because he knew the rhetoric was divisive and ineffective.
    I remember when Lincoln came to my college campus. He really knew how to draw people together


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  11. #5771
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    I mean i know yall like to ignore every achievement Pelosi has made and blow everything AOC has done up... So what makes her a good politician
    Maybe if you selected Pelosiís first term only, you might have something to compare.

    But probably not because Pelosi has always been part of the insideer game (she was handpicked by her predecessor) and a willing player in both the party game and the swamp game; sheís always been in the democratic mainstream, and she has managed with lots of internal support.

    Ocasio-Cortez is by virtue her beliefs and vision, an outlier.

    By the way, I bet Ocasio-Cortez would have voted again the Iraq war too.

    And she would have voted against the Patriot Act (which Pelosi voted for).
    Last edited by Crovash; 12-01-2020 at 12:57 PM.

  12. #5772
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    Here's one of the things that gets me with this kid.

    She was a bartender elected to Congress. Very inspiring.

    Yet, with her background, and after only a few months in office, she headman's the Green New Deal with a price tag ranging from (depending on who you listen to) $20 to $90 trillion. A project that is probably more complex than landing someone on Mars.

    I just find that a bit hard to swallow. As do many others.

    SidebarÖÖDo any of you have any idea as to how much $20 to $90 trillion actually is??? I mean other than "it is a lot of money," do you realize just how much this is??? I wonder sometimes.

    http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html

    .

  13. #5773
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Here's one of the things that gets me with this kid.

    She was a bartender elected to Congress. Very inspiring.

    Yet, with her background, and after only a few months in office, she headman's the Green New Deal with a price tag ranging from (depending on who you listen to) $20 to $90 trillion. A project that is probably more complex than landing someone on Mars.

    I just find that a bit hard to swallow. As do many others.

    SidebarÖÖDo any of you have any idea as to how much $20 to $90 trillion actually is??? I mean other than "it is a lot of money," do you realize just how much this is??? I wonder sometimes.

    http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html

    .
    And that's great. I've said before that I was excited for her when she got elected. She's clearly a hard worker. A 29 year old American woman with Mexican heritage. She majored in economics, and I'm pretty sure she was successful in school. She got a lot of attention for her win, rightfully so. She had done it without help from any major new networks.

    Unfortunately you have to keep going after the election.

    The Green New Deal is the epitome of everything I can't stand about this new wave. And I'm so glad you guys keep bringing up. As a non-binding resolution it's the political equivalent of virtue signaling. It does not change anything, and it does not guarantee anything. It is meant to inspire debate on the topics it presents. It is 100% pure BS. The complexity well come when someone actually writes a freaking law. And not only that she flubbed it. Hard. Her team wasn't prepared for the rollout and it equivocated to a massive wave of misinformation perpetuated by the GOP.

    The whole thing felt like a giant theater act. The SocDems got mad at Pelosi for telling them its not realistic. Pelosi caved and went a long with the charade. McConnell giggled like a schoolgirl, and gleefully shut it down by calling an early vote. The one positive thing was AOC got a hard political lesson.

    The whole thing was an embarrassment. Great ideas have died before when rolled out improperly or gaining too much negative attention.

  14. #5774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Maybe if you selected Pelosiís first term only, you might have something to compare.

    But probably not because Pelosi has always been part of the insideer game (she was handpicked by her predecessor) and a willing player in both the party game and the swamp game; sheís always been in the democratic mainstream, and she has managed with lots of internal support.

    Ocasio-Cortez is by virtue her beliefs and vision, an outlier.

    By the way, I bet Ocasio-Cortez would have voted again the Iraq war too.

    And she would have voted against the Patriot Act (which Pelosi voted for).
    Yes the deep state. Queue the Twilight Zone theme. It's all that filthy corporate moneys she bathes in. Has nothing to do with her ability to leverage situations in the house.

    She would of been 12 years old. Don't know if her vote would of counted.

  15. #5775
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Yes the deep state. Queue the Twilight Zone theme. It's all that filthy corporate moneys she bathes in. Has nothing to do with her ability to leverage situations in the house.

    She would of been 12 years old. Don't know if her vote would of counted.
    Deep state? Twilight Zone?

    Nothing, absolutely nothing, I said indicates that I think Pelosi is part of a conspiracy, that she takes dirty money, or even that she is a wretched legislator or person. Thatís on you and what appears to be your customary assumptions about so-called progressives.

    Read: Pelosi plays the game of politics and she plays it well. And as a legislator, she does indeed get things done ó sometimes for better and sometimes for worse.

    Simple, straightforward, not hard to parse ó for most, anyway.
    Last edited by Crovash; 12-01-2020 at 02:32 PM.

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