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  1. #5191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Meh. This is politics. If pretending you are religious gets votes, then, well, you do what you have to do (though in her case, I don’t think she is pretending).
    I agree. I also don't have an issue if someone is religious or not.

    The ways In which religion is pushed and the extent is what is wing focused on here. Trump, religious or not, has pushed religion in multiple ways I have laid out. Omar? I have seen her be proud of her religion but not necessarily push it at the country in the same ways.

    The issue isn't are you religious? Are you faking? The issue is pushing a religion over say constituents.


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  2. #5192
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Maybe not....but neither does a Christian separate that from their political stance.
    The QUESTION is....does that religious-imprinted political stance cause her...or any other elected official...to take stands, vote for bills, otherwise do the job they're elected to do...that is NOT in the best interest of constituents? Because if so, race, religion, creed...NONE of that should matter....right?
    None of that should matter…but I believe it does with Omar.

    I guess you don't. We can agree to disagree,

  3. #5193
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    I agree. I also don't have an issue if someone is religious or not.

    The ways In which religion is pushed and the extent is what is wing focused on here. Trump, religious or not, has pushed religion in multiple ways I have laid out. Omar? I have seen her be proud of her religion but not necessarily push it at the country in the same ways.

    The issue isn't are you religious? Are you faking? The issue is pushing a religion over say constituents.
    Hard to know who exactly is faking and to what degree.

    Certainly Trump is an opportunist, and nothing he has done or said leads me to believe his public religious persona is genuine, but I am not at all religious, much less christian, and so I admit I am not really in the best position to critique. That said, I am in a good position to treat most religious expression by professional politicians with a high degree of skepticism.

    One further note on Omar, which relates directly to the discussions here about Ocasio-Cortez as well. Members of the House (and to some degree the Senate though in a less targeted way) have a dual role: serving their specific constituents and serving the needs of the country as a whole.

    Of course one can claim that Omar’s criticism of Israel is putting her religion over the country. Nevertheless, I can make the argument that her religion is less influential than our need to examine our relationship with Israel.

  4. #5194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Or a logical realist.
    Nah, what flips said.

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  5. #5195
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Trump is in a category all his own. At this point it's the people that DO trust him that I don't trust.

    Listen, I'm not one of those lefties (odd to say given I'm left handed) that has been anti-Trump for years. I thought it a joke when he said he was running in 2016, literally laughed out loud when he won not sure how much of it I found humorous and how much was something else, but I've always liked the idea of seeing what a good businessman would do in the job vs a lawyer/career politician. But since he's shown he isn't one, I guess we'll still have to wait for that.

    But wherever I was on the Trump scale before March, his actions, comments, reactions since then have, for me, been anywhere from nauseating to downright deadly.
    This is basically how I've reacted to that clown's presidency as well.

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  6. #5196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    But if I dislike Omar…that makes me a racist.

    Double standard here?????
    Dense much?

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  7. #5197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    I don't think she can separate her political stance from being a Muslim. That's the difference in our thinking.
    We're well aware. You've only said this about twenty times now.

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  8. #5198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Hard to know who exactly is faking and to what degree.

    Certainly Trump is an opportunist, and nothing he has done or said leads me to believe his public religious persona is genuine, but I am not at all religious, much less christian, and so I admit I am not really in the best position to critique. That said, I am in a good position to treat most religious expression by professional politicians with a high degree of skepticism.

    One further note on Omar, which relates directly to the discussions here about Ocasio-Cortez as well. Members of the House (and to some degree the Senate though in a less targeted way) have a dual role: serving their specific constituents and serving the needs of the country as a whole.

    Of course one can claim that Omar’s criticism of Israel is putting her religion over the country. Nevertheless, I can make the argument that her religion is less influential than our need to examine our relationship with Israel.
    I think that would dovetail with the point I have been making about Omar.

    regarding Israel…I don't think she possesses the ability to "examine our relationship with Israel." In her mind, there is a deep seated hatred for Israel and that is that. She sees Israel as having stolen land from the Palestinians (Muslims) and that is all she knows.

    And, since she is from Somalia, why does she care what happens in Palestine????

  9. #5199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post

    regarding Israel…In her mind, there is a deep seated hatred for Israel and that is that. She sees Israel as having stolen land from the Palestinians (Muslims) and that is all she knows.
    And you are sure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    And, since she is from Somalia, why does she care what happens in Palestine????
    No comment.

  10. #5200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    I think that would dovetail with the point I have been making about Omar.

    regarding Israel…I don't think she possesses the ability to "examine our relationship with Israel." In her mind, there is a deep seated hatred for Israel and that is that. She sees Israel as having stolen land from the Palestinians (Muslims) and that is all she knows.

    And, since she is from Somalia, why does she care what happens in Palestine????
    So essentially a Muslim cannot advocate for any foreign issues that involve muslims? Because right now we seem to be unanimously doing that regarding China and their muslim internment camps, and Trump is doing it too and you obviously support everything Trump (other than his ability to be misunderstood by others, you most definitely oppose that, lol).

    But what if Omar now speaks out against the Chinese camps? She doesn't possess the ability to examine it fairly?

    Does Trump possess the ability to fairly examine issues with Germany or other European countries? Do we have to send in a non white guy to speak on our behalf with any issues regarding them?

    Or is that another check for the muslims only checklist?

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  11. #5201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    I think that would dovetail with the point I have been making about Omar.

    regarding Israel…I don't think she possesses the ability to "examine our relationship with Israel." In her mind, there is a deep seated hatred for Israel and that is that. She sees Israel as having stolen land from the Palestinians (Muslims) and that is all she knows.

    And, since she is from Somalia, why does she care what happens in Palestine????
    Again your belief that people are fundamentally selfish. One can care about people just cause they are people.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
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  12. #5202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Hard to know who exactly is faking and to what degree.

    Certainly Trump is an opportunist, and nothing he has done or said leads me to believe his public religious persona is genuine, but I am not at all religious, much less christian, and so I admit I am not really in the best position to critique. That said, I am in a good position to treat most religious expression by professional politicians with a high degree of skepticism.

    One further note on Omar, which relates directly to the discussions here about Ocasio-Cortez as well. Members of the House (and to some degree the Senate though in a less targeted way) have a dual role: serving their specific constituents and serving the needs of the country as a whole.

    Of course one can claim that Omar’s criticism of Israel is putting her religion over the country. Nevertheless, I can make the argument that her religion is less influential than our need to examine our relationship with Israel.
    Well what I am kinda saying is religious or not fake or not I don't overly care. It's either their individual choice or they are doing what most politicians do catering to some base.

    My family is Christian but I am not religious personally.

    You can claim any bias for certain identities. The issue is proving the individual is over the top in doing so and it is against constituents or country. I gave clear example of trump using force on constituents for a photo op. This is much different than someone having an opinion and being told it's because they are Muslim so we can't trust it.


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  13. #5203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    None of that should matter…but I believe it does with Omar.

    I guess you don't. We can agree to disagree,
    The issue is you can't explain why and have extreme double standards.

    You choose to believe this about Omar without any clear reasoning while refusing to address a white male "Christian" going more over the top in this extreme approach.


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  14. #5204
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    The issue is you can't explain why and have extreme double standards.

    You choose to believe this about Omar without any clear reasoning while refusing to address a white male "Christian" going more over the top in this extreme approach.


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    The real issue is that you do not read very well.

    I've said several times………she often brings up issues of being a Muslim, POC, woman. She brings it uo not me. Race card from the infinite deck.

    The same card that prevents investigations into her financing, marriage situation(s) etc. As soon as anything is brought up about this…race card.

    But we'll see.

  15. #5205
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    Again your belief that people are fundamentally selfish. One can care about people just cause they are people.
    Soooo:…why doesn't she carwe about situations in China, Africa, SE Asia etc.

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