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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    And Trump isn't a extremist? He has turned our domestic and foreign policies on it's head. Allies are know competitors, and Putin is a worthwhile. Most american label him a racist. We voted in a white dude, who use to sneak into women dressingroom for a cheap thrill. This don't sound like a middle of the road safe vote to me.
    Trump is absolutely an extremist. But the answer to insanity is not to counter it with insanity. That is some Suicide Squad ****

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    I agree here wholeheartedly... As far left as I am in my views, I actually want a president who is left, but not so far left that they can't effectively govern. I would like to get back to the days when the president worked through congress... honeslty the last time it worked the way it was supposed to was clinton with the GOP congress... I'm not saying I liked the policies they produced together, but that is how it's supposed to work.
    we can have our personal views, but also need to understand how it works. Compromise and working together are the only way things get done without overreaction and fighting. You are exactly right, all 3 branches working together with a political balance among them (not all 3 one party) is the most beneficial way.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    link?

    And a question... could a 28 year old have changed their mind about things post bernie? Did you have the exact same beliefs at 22 that you had at 28? I was a ****ing libertarian at 22.
    there are plenty of links to her views on adam smith...

    anyway... views obviously change over long periods of time but we are talking about a wholesale change in thinking to fit the latest trend... she is an opportunist which is her right but seeing her as anything other than a novice only makes one look naÔve...



    Honestly, her win had less to do with her message than the complacency of her opponent... I am sure if he ran as an independent he would squash her.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinylman View Post
    there are plenty of links to her views on adam smith...

    anyway... views obviously change over long periods of time but we are talking about a wholesale change in thinking to fit the latest trend... she is an opportunist which is her right but seeing her as anything other than a novice only makes one look naÔve...



    Honestly, her win had less to do with her message than the complacency of her opponent... I am sure if he ran as an independent he would squash her.
    pretty much how we ended up Trumped

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    Trump is absolutely an extremist. But the answer to insanity is not to counter it with insanity. That is some Suicide Squad ****
    Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. That is what voting for these two party is like for me. Over forty-some years we have watched these two parties drive us off every cliff they could find (NAFTA, repealing banking regulations, Iraq invasions, banking meltdown) and for some odd reason, I going to think they will stop their insanity? I think you fear the unknown or the boogie man these two parties had made the socialist into.
    Last edited by WES445; 08-10-2018 at 10:31 AM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    pretty much how we ended up Trumped
    LOL, agree

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    pretty much how we ended up Trumped
    true... that and a horrible candidate....

    A Vanilla Dem wins last time by a landslide

  8. #38
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    I think it's laughable were calling her an extremist.

    What's extreme is a country that spends more on defense than the next 10 highest countries combined. A country where everyone is so totally fine with that but will attack any proposed funding that helps actual Americans out as "free handouts" and extremism. What's extreme is a country where the top 1/10th of the 1% owns as much wealth as the bottom 90%.


    We only go the "BuT hOw CaN wE pAy FoR iT" route when if progressive agendas. Never when the right wants to spend more on defense, or ratchet up a useless war on drugs, or send everyone in the world to jail, or constant corporate welfare and incredibly pointless tax cuts for the rich.

    It's sad. That's what it is. Let's just settle for less when we could easily have more. Sounds great!


    Healthcare is a right most every other developed country but here. Here it's "extreme". **** that.
    Housing as a human right is extreme?
    An economy of peace, not an economy of war is extreme? Spending trillions on wars when we could instead be spending trillions to make this country better is extreme?
    Sensible gun control is extreme?
    Criminal justice reform is extreme?
    Caring about Puerto Rico is extreme?
    Mobilizing against climate change is extreme?
    Clean campaign finance is extreme?
    Affordable/free higher ed and trade school for all is extreme?


    Nah, let's instead keep wages stagnant like they've been for decades all the while continuing to funnel wealth to the top, wage endless wars, lock everyone up and do so all the while convincing people we couldn't possibly spend money on things that are actually good.
    Hello there! Welcome to ManRam v8.00.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. That is what voting for these two party is like for me. Over forty-some years we have watched these two parties drive us off every cliff they could find (NAFTA, repealing banking regulations, Iraq invasions, banking meltdown) and for some odd reason, I going to think they will stop their insanity? I think you fear the unknown or the boogie man these two parties had made the socialist into.
    fair point. I don't think she stands a chance at rising to the highest office, and a part of that is the 2 parties in her way.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    I think it's laughable were calling her an extremist.

    What's extreme is a country that spends more on defense than the next 10 highest countries combined. A country where everyone is so totally fine with that but will attack any proposed funding that helps actual Americans out as "free handouts" and extremism. What's extreme is a country where the top 1/10th of the 1% owns as much wealth as the bottom 90%.


    We only go the "BuT hOw CaN wE pAy FoR iT" route when if progressive agendas. Never when the right wants to spend more on defense, or ratchet up a useless war on drugs, or send everyone in the world to jail, or constant corporate welfare and incredibly pointless tax cuts for the rich.

    It's sad. That's what it is. Let's just settle for less when we could easily have more. Sounds great!


    Healthcare is a right most every other developed country but here. Here it's "extreme". **** that.
    Housing as a human right is extreme?
    An economy of peace, not an economy of war is extreme? Spending trillions on wars when we could instead be spending trillions to make this country better is extreme?
    Sensible gun control is extreme?
    Criminal justice reform is extreme?
    Caring about Puerto Rico is extreme?
    Mobilizing against climate change is extreme?
    Clean campaign finance is extreme?
    Affordable/free higher ed and trade school for all is extreme?


    Nah, let's instead keep wages stagnant like they've been for decades all the while continuing to funnel wealth to the top, wage endless wars, lock everyone up and do so all the while convincing people we couldn't possibly spend money on things that are actually good.
    extremist in the sense that she wants real change. That is tough to get past 2 branches of govt, and the people. She also hasn't been worn down by politics yet, so the vibrant woman you see now without a clue to help fund her ideas will be a different person in a few years likely. It's easy to say, "slash military". It's another thing to get that done.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    I think it's laughable were calling her an extremist.

    What's extreme is a country that spends more on defense than the next 10 highest countries combined. A country where everyone is so totally fine with that but will attack any proposed funding that helps actual Americans out as "free handouts" and extremism. What's extreme is a country where the top 1/10th of the 1% owns as much wealth as the bottom 90%.


    We only go the "BuT hOw CaN wE pAy FoR iT" route when if progressive agendas. Never when the right wants to spend more on defense, or ratchet up a useless war on drugs, or send everyone in the world to jail, or constant corporate welfare and incredibly pointless tax cuts for the rich.

    It's sad. That's what it is. Let's just settle for less when we could easily have more. Sounds great!


    Healthcare is a right most every other developed country but here. Here it's "extreme". **** that.
    Housing as a human right is extreme?
    An economy of peace, not an economy of war is extreme? Spending trillions on wars when we could instead be spending trillions to make this country better is extreme?
    Sensible gun control is extreme?
    Criminal justice reform is extreme?
    Caring about Puerto Rico is extreme?
    Mobilizing against climate change is extreme?
    Clean campaign finance is extreme?
    Affordable/free higher ed and trade school for all is extreme?


    Nah, let's instead keep wages stagnant like they've been for decades all the while continuing to funnel wealth to the top, wage endless wars, lock everyone up and do so all the while convincing people we couldn't possibly spend money on things that are actually good.
    true... she isn't an extremist... she is simply a pretty face with no depth to her "beliefs"

  12. #42
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    you can include most politicians on that minus the pretty face

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Healthcare is a right most every other developed country but here. Here it's "extreme". **** that.
    Housing as a human right is extreme?
    An economy of peace, not an economy of war is extreme? Spending trillions on wars when we could instead be spending trillions to make this country better is extreme?
    Sensible gun control is extreme?
    Criminal justice reform is extreme?
    Caring about Puerto Rico is extreme?
    Mobilizing against climate change is extreme?
    Clean campaign finance is extreme?
    Affordable/free higher ed and trade school for all is extreme?
    So to me here's the thing:
    Dems and the Left want to argue for all of that at once....and that's what's extreme.

    Get on the same page, change one thing, and let it become a cascade.

    For example:
    Criminal Justice Reform - For one election cycle pick up this agenda. Clean up the system. Become stricter with private prisons that they must maintain a certain level of living. No more minimum sentences on certain crimes. I have long argued don't put the user in jail. Assign a social worker, put them in a short term rehab program, and use them to find the dealers. Its more important to get the people distributing off the streets than the people using.

    Then when you are spending less money on imprisoning people, you have more funds available to spend on gun control and fighting the NRA.

    As for the education, I think it is a bit extreme to go with that, but what we need is more programs like we have for teachers where they have loan forgiveness. What about things like that for people that work in public service that got a college degree? Like I worked for 5 years for local government as a city planner. Why don't I get any forgiveness.

    Anyways, take on one issue at a time, not all of them and then you don't seem extreme.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    you can include most politicians on that minus the pretty face
    So you are saying her only differentiating attribute is her pretty face...


    fair enough

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    fair point. I don't think she stands a chance at rising to the highest office, and a part of that is the 2 parties in her way.
    She doesn't need to. If more like her enter Congress, just maybe, maybe the other political party will do things to win back the American people so they can keep their jobs.

    I not saying she and others like her will change the world, but let's use them as a counter-balance to the big business politic that these two parties have been doing for the past few decades. We got to do something to shake up this political system. These politicans are getting so comfortable running things, they don't think twice about telling lies to us.
    Last edited by WES445; 08-10-2018 at 11:10 AM.

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