Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[Scoots]

So if someone wrongs you... all they have to do is hold it up in court till you die. Because then there is no way they could be help responsible.

Like if I kill you negligently... Your estate shouldn't get anything because it's you I harmed.

Change it up a little. If your great uncle harmed your neighbor's great aunt should you be held responsible and have to pay your neighbor for it?

[ewing]

So much white guilt

[mngopher35]

Sorry, I didn't find it. I just saw it on TV, don't remember what channel either. But I guess the fact that I don't see it means it didn't get picked up on.

Ya I don't think she said anything too crazy about that... yet, it would be all over/easy to find given the attention on her.

It's like Flips said though part of her impact is she is giving cover for moderates to move more etc. too and the topics get out there which haven't as much before (Sanders does similar which is why they are often linked). I think this one might step into the identity politics side though a bit but with actual legitimacy behind it just the wrong way to focus imo probably type thing. There is a way to try and help everyone in need with poor communities (those who need it most now get attention now) etc. instead of reparations based on race for things in the past to me (along with justice reform and other measures too that have impacted some communities more than others). I don't deny a lot of government actions hurt African Americans and their communities/these things happened so a discussion about the effects and that aspect being brought up isn't so bad to me at all, I just would take a different approach on the issue as a whole.

[Crovash]

What the **** else would the reparations before?

Once again. Tell me where I supported reparations or mentioned slavery.

You can’t because I did not.

[B]And most of the BENEFITS that people immigrated here to receive (at least in terms of welfare and all that) didn't come into existence until the great depression and Roosevelt's New Deal. By which point most European immigration was tapering off and those immigrants were being replaced by Asian and Latino immigrants.

The main reason people immigrated here was for job opportunities that were in the north and freedom from persecution in their home countries.

There you go again: somehow you have decided that I meant welfare benefits.

Not so. I am thinking much more of the beloved Constitution (composed well before FDR).

Virtually all benefits for all Americans proceed from the establishment of the rule of law (and in particular the rule of property law) as framed in the Constitution. Anyone — and I don’t give a ratsass when they came to this country — who commands US citizenship partakes of those benefits.

[flips333]

Change it up a little. If your great uncle harmed your neighbor's great aunt should you be held responsible and have to pay your neighbor for it?

I have already explained that for me it's not personal but institutional responsibility. It's not about holding people responsible it's about holding institutions responsible.

It's not about punishing a person... it's about punishing an institution. If somebody did nothing wrong at one of these banks that did all sorts of ****ed up **** wrong circa 2007... even if they were hired after, if that bank is punished (The institution) it might hurt an individual who did nothing wrong. But it's about institutional responsibility not personal responsibility.

I have no ****ing clue what to do about this ****. I'm guessing trying to stamp out institutionalized racism would be the best way to go... but most of the folks who need to hear that don't believe it.

In my mind the USA is still the USA, and it is that institution that committed the wrong.

PS... I think if you inherited wealth because of that wrong, depending on circumstances, you might still be required to pay some of it to said neighbor's estate. It's not punishing you but it's taking money you shouldn't have had in the first place.

[flips333]

Ya I don't think she said anything too crazy about that... yet, it would be all over/easy to find given the attention on her.

It's like Flips said though part of her impact is she is giving cover for moderates to move more etc. too and the topics get out there which haven't as much before (Sanders does similar which is why they are often linked). I think this one might step into the identity politics side though a bit but with actual legitimacy behind it just the wrong way to focus imo probably type thing. There is a way to try and help everyone in need with poor communities (those who need it most now get attention now) etc. instead of reparations based on race for things in the past to me (along with justice reform and other measures too that have impacted some communities more than others). I don't deny a lot of government actions hurt African Americans and their communities/these things happened so a discussion about the effects and that aspect being brought up isn't so bad to me at all, I just would take a different approach on the issue as a whole.

Or just forcing them left.

[Scoots]

Ya I don't think she said anything too crazy about that... yet, it would be all over/easy to find given the attention on her.

It's like Flips said though part of her impact is she is giving cover for moderates to move more etc. too and the topics get out there which haven't as much before (Sanders does similar which is why they are often linked). I think this one might step into the identity politics side though a bit but with actual legitimacy behind it just the wrong way to focus imo probably type thing. There is a way to try and help everyone in need with poor communities (those who need it most now get attention now) etc. instead of reparations based on race for things in the past to me (along with justice reform and other measures too that have impacted some communities more than others). I don't deny a lot of government actions hurt African Americans and their communities/these things happened so a discussion about the effects and that aspect being brought up isn't so bad to me at all, I just would take a different approach on the issue as a whole.

Maybe, but she also gives the GOP some easy levers to use against all Dems. We'll see.

[Scoots]

I have already explained that for me it's not personal but institutional responsibility. It's not about holding people responsible it's about holding institutions responsible.

And if that responsibility takes the form of money that is taking money from my kids to give to people who were, I believe, not harmed.

[ewing]

I have already explained that for me it's not personal but institutional responsibility. It's not about holding people responsible it's about holding institutions responsible.



In my mind the USA is still the USA, and it is that institution that committed the wrong.

PS... I think if you inherited wealth because of that wrong, depending on circumstances, you might still be required to pay some of it to said neighbor's estate. It's not punishing you but it's taking money you shouldn't have had in the first place.

I think you might need an institution

[Hatch]

This is too old to be relevant anymore.........it’s being politicized to pander for votes.

I would rather see a candidate on the left explain how they are going to stimulate the economy and provide/keep jobs for the “underprivileged” rather than create a give away that we’ll spend 10 years and 2 trillion dollars figuring out how to “fairly” distribute anything. How about lets be less about redistribution and more about Opportunity. This country is based on opportunity.........let’s quit all the nonsense and be about that.......

[Scoots]

This is too old to be relevant anymore.........it’s being politicized to pander for votes.

I would rather see a candidate on the left explain how they are going to stimulate the economy and provide/keep jobs for the “underprivileged” rather than create a give away that we’ll spend 10 years and 2 trillion dollars figuring out how to “fairly” distribute anything. How about lets be less about redistribution and more about Opportunity. This country is based on opportunity.........let’s quit all the nonsense and be about that.......

Or "fix" black/poor communities/schools/families.

[SfgiantsJD3]

Or "fix" black/poor communities/schools/families.

The solution requires so much more than a check or payments over time. There needs to be more money for less children, there needs to be child care so education can happen, there needs to a method of getting a safe place to live where drugs or the NBA aren't the most viable avenues out of poverty. There needs to be a benefit for a family unit whether the unit is in a single house or members actively participating that cares for a child. The benefit should increase the more someone succeeds or tries.

There needs to be skills based training for jobs that doesn't require a college degree. There needs to be an incentive for fathers to stick around or live close and this will take 40-50 years to cycle through a few generations.
Whatever the solution it needs to be for people of color only (not white women, and all the other "minorities" that weren't equally disadvantaged).

I just happen to think the government will fail on implementation, too many heretofors and wherins and creation of "measurable" metrics .

Without education and stability however much money is transferred a large percentage will be "relieved" of the funds by ill intention-ed businesses and con artists or the get rich schemes sold every day and the cycle repeats

[ciaban2.0]

So if someone wrongs you... all they have to do is hold it up in court till you die. Because then there is no way they could be help responsible.

Like if I kill you negligently... Your estate shouldn't get anything because it's you I harmed.

Good luck holding it up in court that long.

But the people who wronged them wasn't the government, and it was slave owners.

And we're like 5-6 generations down at this point, there is no one alive today that has ever met someone who was wronged, and this point the closest we get is people saying they're great grandmother told them story's her Grandfather told her about slavery.

[fingerbang]

Her doing blackvoice was priceless.

[ciaban2.0]

Once again. Tell me where I supported reparations or mentioned slavery.

You can’t because I did not.



There you go again: somehow you have decided that I meant welfare benefits.

Not so. I am thinking much more of the beloved Constitution (composed well before FDR).

Virtually all benefits for all Americans proceed from the establishment of the rule of law (and in particular the rule of property law) as framed in the Constitution. Anyone — and I don’t give a ratsass when they came to this country — who commands US citizenship partakes of those benefits.

What else would the reparations be for?

So because we had the rule of law in this country and constitutional rights that everyone benefits from, (including black people) we need to collectively take responsibility for our past, that we didn't contribute to? So black people need to take responsibility for the negatives of our past and slavery too? Since they also enjoy the high standard of living and rule of law that we all enjoy today?
This is the world I was born into, the only world that I have responsibility for is the one I live in now, and maybe the one for the next generation. After that, we don't have much control, and before today we had ZERO control.

And what would taking responsibility look like exactly? Other than a big ole WHOOPSIE our-B we won't enslave people again...lesson learned.

So my Aunt who was born and raised in the Philipines, and recently gained US citizenship is somehow responsible for the past failures of the US government.