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  1. #3016
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Sure, and the state of Africa is not slavery related either. It is more related to colonization and the carving up the continent in such a manner to have the best interest of Europe in mind, which more often than not coincided with the worst interest of Africa in mind.

    I'm not comparing them to Africans in Africa, I'm comparing them to Americans in America. Whenever I speak on this topic.
    And my point was about Africans in Africa. Had slavery never happened then the majority would still be in Africa and likely be worse off. The state of the descendants of slaves in the US is less about slavery and more about policies put in place after slavery was abolished.

    Sure, Africa as whole is a mess and some of it is the fault of Europeans, but that's a VERY complicated discussion.
    Last edited by Scoots; 04-06-2019 at 04:30 PM.

  2. #3017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    It's a shame the 40 acres promise was taken back. But I certainly wasn't alive during slavery, my children were not, their children were now. I think the time to pay for historical mistakes has to have an expiration, and that time is long past.
    I too am not for reparations, as such. But I do have a problem with the reasoning here.

    Those of us alive in this country today benefit greatly from the actions of our forebearers. I doubt we’d be all that interested in tossing those benefits out just because we weren’t alive at the time.

    But some of those actions were morally questionable (at best), and in some cases, the benefits we enjoy are linked to these actions.

    How we accept responsibility for those actions is open for debate, but I do think we have to accept some form of recognition for the negative, particularly if we continue to take advantage of the postive.

  3. #3018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    I too am not for reparations, as such. But I do have a problem with the reasoning here.

    Those of us alive in this country today benefit greatly from the actions of our forebearers. I doubt we’d be all that interested in tossing those benefits out just because we weren’t alive at the time.

    But some of those actions were morally questionable (at best), and in some cases, the benefits we enjoy are linked to these actions.

    How we accept responsibility for those actions is open for debate, but I do think we have to accept some form of recogntion for the negative if we continue to take advantage of the postive.
    My father came to the US as an immigrant in the 1950s. I guess I should be sending money to the Incans for what the Spanish did to them.

  4. #3019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    My father came to the US as an immigrant in the 1950s. I guess I should be sending money to the Incans for what the Spanish did to them.
    Come on, Scoots. You’re better than that.

    It makes no difference when you all arrived. And I am talking about the USofA.

  5. #3020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Come on, Scoots. You’re better than that.

    It makes no difference when you all arrived. And I am talking about the USofA.
    I was serious. There are serious issues with reparations. I don't think we need to keep discussing it since so far we haven't found someone here who is for them.

  6. #3021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Come on, Scoots. You’re better than that.

    It makes no difference when you all arrived. And I am talking about the USofA.
    It absolutely makes a difference. If people who weren’t here for the original crime can be punished, can all people who benefited from America be punished too? What about Europeans who were saved from WWII? What about people around the world who benefited from the tobacco and cotton trade?

  7. #3022
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    It absolutely makes a difference. If people who weren’t here for the original crime can be punished, can all people who benefited from America be punished too? What about Europeans who were saved from WWII? What about people around the world who benefited from the tobacco and cotton trade?
    And then couldn't black people benefiting today be punished too?

  8. #3023
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    And my point was about Africans in Africa. Had slavery never happened then the majority would still be in Africa and likely be worse off. The state of the descendants of slaves in the US is less about slavery and more about policies put in place after slavery was abolished.

    Sure, Africa as whole is a mess and some of it is the fault of Europeans, but that's a VERY complicated discussion.
    Then your point is ridiculous because you are talking about reparations for slavery which was endured by people living in America, not Africa. Might as well compare it to someone living on Mars.

    It's not about wether its the "fault" of the Europeans or anyone else, I'm just telling you this stuff is intertwined.

  9. #3024
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    It absolutely makes a difference. If people who weren’t here for the original crime can be punished, can all people who benefited from America be punished too? What about Europeans who were saved from WWII? What about people around the world who benefited from the tobacco and cotton trade?
    I am talking about the USA.

    And my question (to borrow a page out of Sluggo’s book): So why did they come here? Because of what this country offers by way of benefits, and the source of many of those benefits goes back a lot further than when these folk arrived, but I am pretty sure they were hoping to garner their piece of the American pie.

  10. #3025
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Then your point is ridiculous because you are talking about reparations for slavery which was endured by people living in America, not Africa. Might as well compare it to someone living on Mars.

    It's not about wether its the "fault" of the Europeans or anyone else, I'm just telling you this stuff is intertwined.
    I made the point that the argument has been made black people in america now are better off because their ancestors were enslaved, so reparations to them have essentially already been made by the benefits of being here.

    It's not about fault it's about a reasonable debt. Do I have a debt to all black people in the US? Because that's what we are talking about.

  11. #3026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    h

    I am talking about the USA.

    And my question (to borrow a page out of Sluggo’s book): So why did they come here? Because of what this country offers by way of benefits, and the source of many of those benefits goes back a lot further than when these folk arrived, but I am pretty sure they were hoping to garner their piece of the American pie.
    I didn't come here.

  12. #3027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I made the point that the argument has been made black people in america now are better off because their ancestors were enslaved, so reparations to them have essentially already been made by the benefits of being here.

    It's not about fault it's about a reasonable debt. Do I have a debt to all black people in the US? Because that's what we are talking about.
    Or another way to look at it is their ancestors (physically) built this country too, and economy, so they get a piece back.

    Haha whatever works I guess

  13. #3028
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Or another way to look at it is their ancestors (physically) built this country too, and economy, so they get a piece back.

    Haha whatever works I guess
    Really, nothing works. Those people are gone and nothing will make it be un-done.

  14. #3029
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    I too am not for reparations, as such. But I do have a problem with the reasoning here.

    Those of us alive in this country today benefit greatly from the actions of our forebearers. I doubt we’d be all that interested in tossing those benefits out just because we weren’t alive at the time.

    But some of those actions were morally questionable (at best), and in some cases, the benefits we enjoy are linked to these actions.

    How we accept responsibility for those actions is open for debate, but I do think we have to accept some form of recognition for the negative, particularly if we continue to take advantage of the postive.
    Accept responsibility for whose actions?

    Because with reparations, everyone pays in including Asians, Latino's and Native Americans who NEVER benefited from Slavery, as well as most white folks who either aren't descended from Slave Owners and whose ancestors either fought for emancipation or came here in the post-antebellum era.

    At a certain point, it just seems like we're saying that because Scoots has some genetic link to someone who was mean to someone else ancestor he's responsible for that person's actions....also, Asians and Latino's need to pay in too.

    As far as the "benefits" we've received due to slavery, there are some pretty strong economic arguments that show the South was severely held back by slavery.

    Very few people actually benefited from slavery, to make everyone pay reparations to people who weren't personally affected by it seems dubious.

  15. #3030
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Or another way to look at it is their ancestors (physically) built this country too, and economy, so they get a piece back.

    Haha whatever works I guess
    They didn't build it alone, it's not as though every white person just stood around while the Blacks built everything. The people who got screwed by slavery have all been dead for more than a century. We can't pay them back.

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