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  1. #2131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Of the two people you describe…who costs me the most money.

    One guy buys something he cannot afford and takes something he doesn't need.

    The rich guy doesn't cost me a dime. Does he take advantage of legal loopholes? You bet (as do I and would I). You want to close those loopholes, I'm fine with that. But as it stands, the guy ripping off lunch money costs me more than the guy banking in the Caymans.
    First, no he is not taking advantage of legal loopholes. What he is doing is illegal. It is illegal to hide US based income in offshore accounts for the purposes of evading taxes. In fact, the guy getting free lunch for his kid is using the actual legal loophole to get his kid that free lunch, and you are mad at him for doing so, but fine if a rich person does.

    Second, he is absolutely costing you money. The US government is not getting the money it is by law owed from this person because of his illegal activities. What you are doing is the equivalent of saying a person who doesn't pay their rent isn't technically costing the landlord any money because they haven't taken any of their money.


    So my question is, why are you OK with a rich person taking advantage of legal loopholes, but not OK with poor people doing so?

  2. #2132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    So if he defaults on a loan, credit card, mortgage…I guess that's OK too.

    If he steals a car from someone with a lot of cars…no prob there.

    You're justifying bad behavior.

    Were you one of those guys that cut out on me without paying your fare when I was driving a cab?
    If you're poor you're a bad person.

  3. #2133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Fasten your seat belt, Slugworth, ‘cause there’s plenty more of my kind rising up (you know: sensible, intelligent, forward-thinking, community-minded folk).



    By the way, how’s your definition of western culture coming along?
    You seem to think an awful lot of yourself.

    You strike me as one of the Homeowner Association people that the community detests.

    But I could be wrong.

  4. #2134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Of the two people you describe…who costs me the most money.

    One guy buys something he cannot afford and takes something he doesn't need.

    The rich guy doesn't cost me a dime. Does he take advantage of legal loopholes? You bet (as do I and would I). You want to close those loopholes, I'm fine with that. But as it stands, the guy ripping off lunch money costs me more than the guy banking in the Caymans.
    I don’t follow. If you are hiding a ton of money you should be paying taxes on middle class guys like me probably just get taxed more to pay for government stuff. I would think the guy not paying taxes on 100 million bucks is costing me more then the kid getting free milk.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  5. #2135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I know it man. Sluggo, as I have told him, reminds me of my Dad. I love my Dad, he is arguably the most intelligent man I know in most matters. That being said, he can't see anything, any topic, any situation, from any point of view except his own. It's crippling to any argument he has when it comes to politics or social matters. He just isn't capable of it. I think many people are guilty of this. In fact, when I realized I was viewing the world like that, it made me step back, and really take a look at the situation of others. To this day, anytime I am about to judge someone, I stop, and try and put myself in their shoes. Can I always do so? No, of course not. But I am at least trying to understand someone else's actions or decisions and realize while they may not be what I did, or decided, how can I judge another without walking in their shoes?

    We have 1 life man. 1. Then we turn to dirt. I, have no desire to spend it working 70 hours a week or hiding my money in a piggybank to save, save, save. There is a balance. And I am fine, I have a great life. But I am considered upper middle class, and to me, that is a joke. If my life is better than 85% of the rest of the US, dude, we got problems haha.
    Haha. I never thought I would need more then 50 grand then I got married. No kids but if you don’t want to rent in the ghetto like I did most of my adult life you need money. My pops was a bus driver and we didn’t spend money but he also had a big suburban house. The house he brought in the 70s for a song cost half a million now. Times have changed. Money doesn’t go as far. Sluggo has points but he is also wrong


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  6. #2136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I know it man. Sluggo, as I have told him, reminds me of my Dad. I love my Dad, he is arguably the most intelligent man I know in most matters. That being said, he can't see anything, any topic, any situation, from any point of view except his own. It's crippling to any argument he has when it comes to politics or social matters. He just isn't capable of it. I think many people are guilty of this. In fact, when I realized I was viewing the world like that, it made me step back, and really take a look at the situation of others. To this day, anytime I am about to judge someone, I stop, and try and put myself in their shoes. Can I always do so? No, of course not. But I am at least trying to understand someone else's actions or decisions and realize while they may not be what I did, or decided, how can I judge another without walking in their shoes?

    We have 1 life man. 1. Then we turn to dirt. I, have no desire to spend it working 70 hours a week or hiding my money in a piggybank to save, save, save. There is a balance. And I am fine, I have a great life. But I am considered upper middle class, and to me, that is a joke. If my life is better than 85% of the rest of the US, dude, we got problems haha.
    The attempt you make seems to be the most important step imo. I got briefly into it in another thread but the idea everyone should be voting for what they want/like against shared realities is a huge problem today. You want to know who else always thinks he is right and goes against shared realities and we pretend it is some crazy outlier? Trump. He is the epitome of this attitude from a political standpoint.

    When I discuss politics with people who like to have in depth conversations what I have largely found is a gap in the way people view government/voting when discussing how it should work and how they actually vote.

    1. The best thing for government to do is maximize the objective good for everyone in America

    Do they agree that should be the goal? Yes, almost always. Do they act that way when voting? I have found through logically going step by step with people that they often don't and the difference is the attempt to stay objective instead of going into your own subjective wants.

    Like with the wall do you need the wall because you/your side wants it or will you read the link I shared like 5 times now and discuss what would be the best rational steps forward for everyone? We have found on PSD those conversations about what logically should we be doing don't really happen while the Omar thread talks about is Muslim identity is valid in politics or the threads where actions of a few are now defining the left/dems or communism is taking over with Bernie/AOC etc. etc. trying to just lump things with sides and choose for/against based on wants instead of logic/facts/stats/data/science and at least making an attempt to be objective in situations.

    I tend to agree personally with that last statement but at the same time if people want to work 80+ hours per week or do things I might consider dumb with their one life go ahead. So long as it is within the rules/system in place then who am I to say my own beliefs/realities are greater or more important than theirs. That is what we should be doing logically talking about the system and how to improve it for the benefit of everyone. Giving an example of one person considered poor who qualifies for a lunch program for his kid but also buys hockey tickets is insanity when trying to be logical about the whole picture. It also shows that mentality front and center of just wanting to judge people/groups for things you consider right/wrong personally.

  7. #2137
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    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    So if he defaults on a loan, credit card, mortgage…I guess that's OK too.

    If he steals a car from someone with a lot of cars…no prob there.

    You're justifying bad behavior.

    Were you one of those guys that cut out on me without paying your fare when I was driving a cab?
    I don’t think those are equivalent behaviors. If gets the free lunch it’s probably bc he qualifies for it. Maybe it’s based on AGI and he claims a business loss. Regardless despite him getting it not being in the spirit of the rule he qualifies and he isn’t welching like if he did not pay his debts.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  8. #2138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    So if he defaults on a loan, credit card, mortgage…I guess that's OK too.

    If he steals a car from someone with a lot of cars…no prob there.

    You're justifying bad behavior.

    Were you one of those guys that cut out on me without paying your fare when I was driving a cab?
    You never mentioned anything and how in the world do I know why he is doing these things?

    I am simply choosing not to rush to judgement when I hear someone buys hockey tickets and also has his kid on a lunch program lol. You want me to jump to conclusions because you have made this into a sides thing and he is on the bad side.

    Does the answer to this matter in anyway to the logic of what I am saying? The answer is no I have never done that in my life. Again you are so set on this game of good/bad and putting people into groups/sides. Who I am as a person or what I may have done at some point in my life isn't relevant to whether or not this guy buying hockey tickets while on a lunch program should be judged solely off that.

  9. #2139
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    I think Sluggo is against the free lunch more then the tax cheat bc the free lunch guy is taking a hand out while the tax cheat is hording. It is a different sin so I can understand that.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  10. #2140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_White View Post
    That’s not how taxes work.
    That's how sales tax work.

    Also, that's how cap and trade works too.

  11. #2141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    There is no structure possible to stop a society from having rich and poor (unless you can find a way to turn off greed, and stupidity). But, we need to strive to cut those numbers from where they are, and have a much greater number truly in the middle.

    I mean, if you can find happiness in long hours at the office, and not enjoying entertainment, that is great. Seriously. But we only have 1 life, so expecting others to be as militant as you is asking too much. I think anyways.

    However, the mere fact that ANYONE would stick up for the truly rich (I sometimes think people confuse rich with higher income earners, which are 2 different things), is mind boggling. If any portion of our population needs literally zero sympathy, it's the rich.
    I think refusing sympathy and kindness and understand for any group of people is wrong.

    That's one of those things that there isn't a scarcity of.

  12. #2142
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I love it when people have outrage at this but not some rich guy who pays $5,000 in taxes on $200 million in assets because he hid all his money in a Cayman islands bank account.

    Both are cheats, the rich guy is taking more of your money than the hockey pal.
    How is the rich guy taking my money if he's not paying taxes on HIS income?

    Unless you feel we have the right to other peoples income, and them filing taxes to get their held earnings back is some sort of graft on their part.

  13. #2143
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    Smash Like Button!

  14. #2144
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    That's how sales tax work.

    Also, that's how cap and trade works too.
    Those are special taxes
    "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.”

    -JFK


  15. #2145
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban2.0 View Post
    How is the rich guy taking my money if he's not paying taxes on HIS income?

    Unless you feel we have the right to other peoples income, and them filing taxes to get their held earnings back is some sort of graft on their part.
    The government does. It's called taxes. Unless you are an anarchist you also believe that the Government has the right to take other people's money.

    If the rich guy isn't paying on taxes he legally owes, it falls on you and me to pay more in taxes to make up for the lost revenue the government isn't getting.

    It's a pretty basic concept. If 5 guys pitch in on a pizza for $20 each guy owes $4, however if one of those guys hides the money and doesn't pay, now 4 of you must pay $5 for that same pizza.

    According to your logic the guy who hides his money and doesn't pay for the pizza is perfectly fine to do so because after all, he's not taking your money at all.

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