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  1. #2101
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    No the rich benefit exponentially more because they benefit off of the capital having those benefits.

    They benefit more off of roads because that allows a person to get into work in order to work for them. Trash pickup, fire services, police services and all those other services help the poor stay healthy and able bodied in able to put in their time and work so that the capital owners can benefit.

    That’s the beauty of never having to lift a finger so that others can do your work for you.

    Sales taxes are amazing taxes for the rich. They are regressive taxes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If this post doesn't prove that you can stretch and parse a point to make it say whatever you want, I don't know what does.

    Trash pickup, fire services, police services and all those other services help the poor stay healthy and able bodied in able to put in their time and work so that the capital owners can benefit.


    I can't top that one.

    Well maybe I can………

    Doesn't all this abortion stuff prevent the lower classes from procreating and producing more low end labor thereby making it harder for the rich to get their evil claws on all the drones they need to make then richer and richer.

  2. #2102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with the points. I am saying that those points are valid.

    The people that require the most…pay the least.

    The people that pay the most…receive the least in return.

    That seems pretty clear to me. Whether it is right, fair, equitable…I'm not really sure.

    I would happily be willing to drop income tax and get rid of all the deductions and loopholes and institute a national sales tax…

    on everything…food, medicine, healthcare, mortgage payments, education…everything - no deductions.

    on everyone…rich poor, churches, charities etc. - no exceptions.

    The rich would pay more since they spend more. People could pay whatever taxes they want by controlling their spending.

    But the first whine you would hear is that it affects the poor more when in actuality it affects everyone the same.

    It is endless. To many, the fairest system is I pay less (or none) while you pay more.
    you are right, in there is no taxation system that will make everyone happy.

    However, under our current system, the portion getting the shaft are the poor and middle class. At the end of the day, that just isn't going to work.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  3. #2103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    If this post doesn't prove that you can stretch and parse a point to make it say whatever you want, I don't know what does.

    Trash pickup, fire services, police services and all those other services help the poor stay healthy and able bodied in able to put in their time and work so that the capital owners can benefit.


    I can't top that one.

    Well maybe I can………

    Doesn't all this abortion stuff prevent the lower classes from procreating and producing more low end labor thereby making it harder for the rich to get their evil claws on all the drones they need to make then richer and richer.
    No, because they can either offshore for cheap labor. Or they can import it on visas if it needs to be done here or if they just want to create more competition to keep wages in check.

    And the abortion topic is much more beneficial a lever to be pressed so they can maintain their power in order to make sure the laws that would affect their money stay swung in their favor.


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  4. #2104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    you are right, in there is no taxation system that will make everyone happy.

    However, under our current system, the portion getting the shaft are the poor and middle class. At the end of the day, that just isn't going to work.
    Yep, taxation isn’t a zero sum game, but it’s pretty darn close to it. That’s why it’s always one of the most contested fights.


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  5. #2105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    You can parse these these concepts from many different angles to "prove" your point.

    Here's another perspective…

    A lot of the wealthy and the middle classes pay state and local taxes and receive little in benefits.

    Many do not use public schools. They send their kids to private schools.
    Few live in pubic housing.
    Most don't use public transportation.
    Trash pick up…wealthier neighborhoods are much cleaner.
    Parks, playgrounds, beaches…not so much usage from the upper classes.
    Court systems…they pay for their own lawyers.
    Police and fire…the better neighborhoods have fas less activity in this area. In 30 years I have never seen a police car on my street or a fire truck in my neighborhood. Also far less crime.

    So the upper classes are paying for services they use far less of. Granted this is by choice but the point remains.

    There are other inequities pertaining to taxation the biggest being dependent deductions.
    Husband and wife with four kids as opposed to a husband and wife with no kids (or grown kids) Who uses more resources? Who pays higher taxes?

    And on and on and on.

    So make the numbers say whatever you want.

    This is of course not true. You are confusing direct benefit with benefits.

    While they send their kids to private school, the workers at their businesses have the basic skills necessary to perform the jobs required due to public schools
    While they live in their own lavish houses, the government allows their workers and maids and butlers to live in housing so they can pay them a lower wage, keeping more of their money
    While they don't use public transportation, the workers at their business do which allows them to go to work


    Suppose the US just got rid of public schools because hey, everybody who never went to one or never had kids didn't want to pay. Those same rich folks who are complaining about paying for other kids' education would soon be paying to educate their employees. The idea that the wealthy don't get any benefit from all the things they pay for is hilarious.

  6. #2106
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  7. #2107
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    This is of course not true. You are confusing direct benefit with benefits.

    While they send their kids to private school, the workers at their businesses have the basic skills necessary to perform the jobs required due to public schools
    While they live in their own lavish houses, the government allows their workers and maids and butlers to live in housing so they can pay them a lower wage, keeping more of their money
    While they don't use public transportation, the workers at their business do which allows them to go to work


    Suppose the US just got rid of public schools because hey, everybody who never went to one or never had kids didn't want to pay. Those same rich folks who are complaining about paying for other kids' education would soon be paying to educate their employees. The idea that the wealthy don't get any benefit from all the things they pay for is hilarious.
    He's clearly wrong but the government is incredibly wasteful. Not just in terms of fraud and corruption but just the beauracracy of everything you have to go through. my brother works for Con-Edison. The amount of nonsense they have to go through just to get something rolling is ridiculous and unncessary. Their ability to "manage" just puts these politicians in more power

  8. #2108
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    This is of course not true. You are confusing direct benefit with benefits.

    While they send their kids to private school, the workers at their businesses have the basic skills necessary to perform the jobs required due to public schools
    While they live in their own lavish houses, the government allows their workers and maids and butlers to live in housing so they can pay them a lower wage, keeping more of their money
    While they don't use public transportation, the workers at their business do which allows them to go to work


    Suppose the US just got rid of public schools because hey, everybody who never went to one or never had kids didn't want to pay. Those same rich folks who are complaining about paying for other kids' education would soon be paying to educate their employees. The idea that the wealthy don't get any benefit from all the things they pay for is hilarious.
    Well, to follow this absurd logic……

    The rich deserve to pay less taxes since they and their companies are their companies provide the jobs that the lower classes use to survive on.

    And round and round we go.

    National sales tax…everyone pays as they go for what they use. No Exceptions.

  9. #2109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Well, to follow this absurd logic……

    The rich deserve to pay less taxes since they and their companies are their companies provide the jobs that the lower classes use to survive on.

    And round and round we go.

    National sales tax…everyone pays as they go for what they use. No Exceptions.
    Your worst idea yet.
    "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.”

    -JFK


  10. #2110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_White View Post
    Your worst idea yet.
    Right…pay for what you use.

    What a terrible idea.

  11. #2111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Well, to follow this absurd logic……

    The rich deserve to pay less taxes since they and their companies are their companies provide the jobs that the lower classes use to survive on.

    And round and round we go.

    National sales tax…everyone pays as they go for what they use. No Exceptions.
    A National sales tax is a terrible idea. Perhaps the worst structure of a tax system ever devised. No surprise you think it's a good idea.

  12. #2112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Right…pay for what you use.

    What a terrible idea.
    Well I haven't had to use the police so I don't think I should have to pay for them. Fire either.

  13. #2113
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post

  14. #2114
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Well I haven't had to use the police so I don't think I should have to pay for them. Fire either.
    I guess you don't get it. The national sales tax replaces federal income tax and is added to local and state taxes which pay for the police that you don't use.

    So go to the store. You buy your Cheetos. You pay your sales tax to the local community and state. An additional tax is then added for the federal government that replaces the income tax. Now everyone pays thew same rate of tax to the feds. Local taxation complaints can be taken up with the locals.

    So you buy your Cheetos and an extra .03¢ goes to the fed. The rich guy, hatefully, buys a super big bag of Cheetos and smirks in your direction as he sends .08¢ to the fed…but he got more Cheetos.

    Can't you see it…the sixth generation of Air Force/Navy fighter jet can be called the F25 Cheeto. It sings

  15. #2115
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    I used to be for a flat sales tax, but I am really only interested in framework for it now if there are exemptions. Meaning, if you don't report a certain amount of income, you pay no taxes. It gets progressive depending on the item as well. A boat that costs $100k, for instance, would carry a hefty tax. A Mercedes carriers a higher tax than a Honda.

    At some point, our rich need to contribute more, period. I understand worth, value, and none of that explains why a tiny portion need to live in the hills in a gated community while so many starve and repeat the cycle of poverty. It doesn't mean set things equal, it means define excess, and only the filthy rich will then go attain it. Or, the cost of what we deem luxurious today, will drop and actually become attainable for a higher percentage of the population as it becomes less desireable for the upper middle class, and lower tier of wealthy people.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

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