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  1. #2041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    If all this happens and business is forced to operate more efficiently…then comes the call for $20 minimum wage and Universal Basic Income because there are now less jobs and higher prices.

    And round and round we go.
    well, perhaps we can offset some burger flippers being laid off with actually tapping into the next trillion dollar industry-the green industry.

    In all reality, labor costs may be lower than they should be. However, profits amongst the higher earning corporations are way inflated, and systemizing that alone would offset the cost of goods if there were a rise due to labor cost rise.

    I work at a trucking company with 550 employees, 375 of them drivers. Of the 150 office staff, all but 15 make under 85k a year. We have 3 people making over 200k, another few percent over 100k, then around 8-9 making that 85-99k.

    My question is, why does a CEO need to make upwards of 4 times more than a dispatcher? Or, why does a CEO of a major corporation make 15-20 times more than a mid level employee?

    Wage gap is way more of a concern than min wage, and needs to be addressed.
    Last edited by Hawkeye15; 02-20-2019 at 03:26 PM.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  2. #2042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    well, perhaps we can offset some burger flippers being laid off with actually tapping into the next trillion dollar industry-the green industry.

    In all reality, labor costs may be lower than they should be. However, profits amongst the higher earning corporations are way inflated, and systemizing that alone would offset the cost of goods if there were a rise due to labor cost rise.

    I work at a trucking company with 550 employees, 375 of them drivers. Of the 150 office staff, all but 15 make under 85k a year. We have 3 people making over 200k, another few percent over 100k, then around 8-9 making that 85-99k.

    My question is, why does a CEO need to make upwards of 4 times more than a dispatcher? Or, why does a CEO of a major corporation make 15-20 times more than a mid level employee?

    Wage gap is way more of a concern than min wage, and needs to be addressed.
    And 361 times what the average rank-and-file worker makes.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianahe.../#3803ec11776d

    “In the 1950s, a typical CEO made 20 times the salary of his or her average worker. Last year, CEO pay at an S&P 500 Index firm soared to an average of 361 times more than the average rank-and-file worker, or pay of $13,940,000 a year.”

  3. #2043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    And 361 times what the average rank-and-file worker makes.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianahe.../#3803ec11776d

    “In the 1950s, a typical CEO made 20 times the salary of his or her average worker. Last year, CEO pay at an S&P 500 Index firm soared to an average of 361 times more than the average rank-and-file worker, or pay of $13,940,000 a year.”
    and that has to stop. I am not saying go Robin Hood on this, but we can't have the top portion of 1% making so much while all the worker bees struggle to keep their head above water.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  4. #2044
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    These guys making this kind of money…

    It's not like Uncle Scrooge in the comic books just sitting on top of a money bin loaded with cash and coins.

    The money moves.

    That movement moves other money etc. etc. etc.

    Every time you try to block the natural movement of money, the net results do more harm than good.

    I'd rather see restrictions on how some people spend their money.

    I can't afford a Mercedes…but I can get one.
    I can't afford a half million dollar home (pretty nice digs in Florida)…but I can get one.
    I can't afford a month long European vacation…but I could take one.
    I can't afford certain types of equipment for my business…but I can get whatever I want.

    People in the lower and middle classes (probably more so the middle class) show little self control, dig themselves into holes and then cry about it.

    People with cell phones lining up for the next cell phone. People with big screens camping out for the black Friday sale on the super big screens etc.

    Maybe more enforced control or some self control would go a long way to solving many of people's financial issues.

    I dunno.

  5. #2045
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    These guys making this kind of money…

    It's not like Uncle Scrooge in the comic books just sitting on top of a money bin loaded with cash and coins.

    The money moves.

    That movement moves other money etc. etc. etc.

    Every time you try to block the natural movement of money, the net results do more harm than good.

    I'd rather see restrictions on how some people spend their money.

    I can't afford a Mercedes…but I can get one.
    I can't afford a half million dollar home (pretty nice digs in Florida)…but I can get one.
    I can't afford a month long European vacation…but I could take one.
    I can't afford certain types of equipment for my business…but I can get whatever I want.

    People in the lower and middle classes (probably more so the middle class) show little self control, dig themselves into holes and then cry about it.

    People with cell phones lining up for the next cell phone. People with big screens camping out for the black Friday sale on the super big screens etc.

    Maybe more enforced control or some self control would go a long way to solving many of people's financial issues.

    I dunno.
    then you believe in trickle down. I don't. Blocking the natural movement? Dude, that is exactly what the top has done. it stops with them, the minions get enough to survive.

    You can point to decision making all you want, that has nothing to do with wage gap. I know people making 200k or more a year that have no savings.

    Tell me this, if you make $60k a year (this is actually above the household mean), can you afford:

    Single family home in a good school district
    College for 2-3 kids
    Retirement savings to be able to retire by 65
    1-2 cars
    Health costs that aren't covered by insurance
    Power, water, phone
    Food, fuel, clothing


    The answer, is no, unless you are in a handful of states. Thing is, 30 years ago, a mechanics salary raised a family with 2-3 kids, sent them to college, and gave you retirement.

    Wages aint keeping up with inflation, the divide grows by the year from top to bottom, and all your talk about how business works is fine, and has some validity depending on WHAT KIND of business it is, but none of that helps people. You want people to stop having kids if they can't afford it, fine. Good luck with all that. So now what, since you live amongst an irresponsible population that can't control themselves? Should we just let a CEO make $14,000,000 a year while your neighbor struggles to make it?

    You also act like people are robots. What kind of life is working until you die? There has to be a balance. Once you die, you are dirt. No way it needs to be spent working day and night.

    So I ask you, what has changed over the last 30 years that a respectable, average job can no longer afford a comfortable, secure life for a family? If your answer is "personal responsibility and choices", well, you are missing the boat.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  6. #2046
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    These guys making this kind of money…

    It's not like Uncle Scrooge in the comic books just sitting on top of a money bin loaded with cash and coins.

    The money moves.
    It sure does...offshore.

  7. #2047
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    These guys making this kind of money…

    It's not like Uncle Scrooge in the comic books just sitting on top of a money bin loaded with cash and coins.

    The money moves.

    That movement moves other money etc. etc. etc.

    Every time you try to block the natural movement of money, the net results do more harm than good.

    I'd rather see restrictions on how some people spend their money.

    I can't afford a Mercedes…but I can get one.
    I can't afford a half million dollar home (pretty nice digs in Florida)…but I can get one.
    I can't afford a month long European vacation…but I could take one.
    I can't afford certain types of equipment for my business…but I can get whatever I want.

    People in the lower and middle classes (probably more so the middle class) show little self control, dig themselves into holes and then cry about it.

    People with cell phones lining up for the next cell phone. People with big screens camping out for the black Friday sale on the super big screens etc.

    Maybe more enforced control or some self control would go a long way to solving many of people's financial issues.

    I dunno.
    Duck tales isn’t a comic book. How do you expect people to take you seriously?


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    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  8. #2048
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    then you believe in trickle down. I don't. Blocking the natural movement? Dude, that is exactly what the top has done. it stops with them, the minions get enough to survive.

    You can point to decision making all you want, that has nothing to do with wage gap. I know people making 200k or more a year that have no savings.

    Tell me this, if you make $60k a year (this is actually above the household mean), can you afford:

    Single family home in a good school district
    College for 2-3 kids
    Retirement savings to be able to retire by 65
    1-2 cars
    Health costs that aren't covered by insurance
    Power, water, phone
    Food, fuel, clothing


    The answer, is no, unless you are in a handful of states. Thing is, 30 years ago, a mechanics salary raised a family with 2-3 kids, sent them to college, and gave you retirement.

    Wages aint keeping up with inflation, the divide grows by the year from top to bottom, and all your talk about how business works is fine, and has some validity depending on WHAT KIND of business it is, but none of that helps people. You want people to stop having kids if they can't afford it, fine. Good luck with all that. So now what, since you live amongst an irresponsible population that can't control themselves? Should we just let a CEO make $14,000,000 a year while your neighbor struggles to make it?

    You also act like people are robots. What kind of life is working until you die? There has to be a balance. Once you die, you are dirt. No way it needs to be spent working day and night.

    So I ask you, what has changed over the last 30 years that a respectable, average job can no longer afford a comfortable, secure life for a family? If your answer is "personal responsibility and choices", well, you are missing the boat.
    Thank you.


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  9. #2049
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    then you believe in trickle down. I don't. Blocking the natural movement? Dude, that is exactly what the top has done. it stops with them, the minions get enough to survive.

    You can point to decision making all you want, that has nothing to do with wage gap. I know people making 200k or more a year that have no savings.

    Tell me this, if you make $60k a year (this is actually above the household mean), can you afford:

    Single family home in a good school district
    College for 2-3 kids
    Retirement savings to be able to retire by 65
    1-2 cars
    Health costs that aren't covered by insurance
    Power, water, phone
    Food, fuel, clothing


    The answer, is no, unless you are in a handful of states. Thing is, 30 years ago, a mechanics salary raised a family with 2-3 kids, sent them to college, and gave you retirement.

    Wages the company can afford keeping up with inflation, the divide grows by the year from top to bottom, and all your talk about how business works is fine, and has some validity depending on WHAT KIND of business it is, but none of that helps people. You want people to stop having kids if they can't afford it, fine. Good luck with all that. So now what, since you live amongst an irresponsible population that can't control themselves? Should we just let a CEO make $14,000,000 a year while your neighbor struggles to make it?

    You also act like people are robots. What kind of life is working until you die? There has to be a balance. Once you die, you are dirt. No way it needs to be spent working day and night.

    So I ask you, what has changed over the last 30 years that a respectable, average job can no longer afford a comfortable, secure life for a family? If your answer is "personal responsibility and choices", well, you are missing the boat.
    Bolded…It doesn't stop with them unless they stick it in their mattress and sit on it.m If they put it in the bank or into some investment, the money moves.

    Stop having kids if you can't afford it??? You shouldn't do anything you can't afford.

    Re: the CEO making $14 mil a year. Does he make all that or is a lot of it stock options based on his success. And even if it is a cash outlay to his pocket, I guess the company can afford it or they wouldn't pay it, and quite possible if he wasn't paid that amount he wouldn't be working so hard to get it.

    Why is the CEOs salary such an atrocity to people but athletes, rockers, movie stars, the entire entertainment business salaries never an issue? I never understood that.

    What has changed over the last 30 years that affects having a comfortable secure life…that's easy…stuff. Tons of stuff that is considered normal today that never required an outlay of cash years ago. I spend approx $6 thousand a year on cell phones and television service (and I don't have a cell phone. Wife and kids have theirs). Another $6 thousand or so on car insurance. Heaven forbid any one take mass transit. Drive everywhere with navi systems. House with a pool…common in many areas. Eat out 5-6 times a month. Clothes are bought, worn for about a year and replaced…never gets repaired. Always have to be in style. Bourbon…can only buy premium bourbon. Can't just serve scotch…gotta be single malt. Beer that's not craft beer with a funny name…seriously? There's just more stuff to spend money on and easy to do even you have no money.

    I think some adjustments are necessary. Maybe pay company executives some sort of percentage of bottom line (I can just see those accounting meetings). Maybe a little more realistic in how you pay employees who stick around. I definitely believe in company paid health insurance (doing this for thirty years. Getting very expensive.) Would support a reasonable national health care plan. How about a national sales tax that goes directly to some national health care plan. One in which everyone pays even thew poor.

    College tuition…never hear about lowering professor's wages … any idea how much these pompous tenured people make? Can't they take a pay cut? College in Texas spent $10 million a few years ago renovating the football locker room. How can they justify high tuition when there is that kind of money around. Does every college in the state need to be building a new research facility for something…seems that way. nEverything is on line now but textbooks still go for $100+. Does that make sense.

    So there is plenty of room to make adjustments…not just the $14 million CEO.

  10. #2050
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Duck tales isn’t a comic book. How do you expect people to take you seriously?


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  11. #2051
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Bolded…It doesn't stop with them unless they stick it in their mattress and sit on it.m If they put it in the bank or into some investment, the money moves.

    Stop having kids if you can't afford it??? You shouldn't do anything you can't afford.

    Re: the CEO making $14 mil a year. Does he make all that or is a lot of it stock options based on his success. And even if it is a cash outlay to his pocket, I guess the company can afford it or they wouldn't pay it, and quite possible if he wasn't paid that amount he wouldn't be working so hard to get it.

    Why is the CEOs salary such an atrocity to people but athletes, rockers, movie stars, the entire entertainment business salaries never an issue? I never understood that.

    What has changed over the last 30 years that affects having a comfortable secure life…that's easy…stuff. Tons of stuff that is considered normal today that never required an outlay of cash years ago. I spend approx $6 thousand a year on cell phones and television service (and I don't have a cell phone. Wife and kids have theirs). Another $6 thousand or so on car insurance. Heaven forbid any one take mass transit. Drive everywhere with navi systems. House with a pool…common in many areas. Eat out 5-6 times a month. Clothes are bought, worn for about a year and replaced…never gets repaired. Always have to be in style. Bourbon…can only buy premium bourbon. Can't just serve scotch…gotta be single malt. Beer that's not craft beer with a funny name…seriously? There's just more stuff to spend money on and easy to do even you have no money.

    I think some adjustments are necessary. Maybe pay company executives some sort of percentage of bottom line (I can just see those accounting meetings). Maybe a little more realistic in how you pay employees who stick around. I definitely believe in company paid health insurance (doing this for thirty years. Getting very expensive.) Would support a reasonable national health care plan. How about a national sales tax that goes directly to some national health care plan. One in which everyone pays even thew poor.

    College tuition…never hear about lowering professor's wages … any idea how much these pompous tenured people make? Can't they take a pay cut? College in Texas spent $10 million a few years ago renovating the football locker room. How can they justify high tuition when there is that kind of money around. Does every college in the state need to be building a new research facility for something…seems that way. nEverything is on line now but textbooks still go for $100+. Does that make sense.

    So there is plenty of room to make adjustments…not just the $14 million CEO.
    The problem with the middle class isn't that their pay is slowly eroding or it's harder for them to be successful, it's that they buy fancy beer with a funny name.


    I will sum up all of Sluggo's arguments in a nutshell: poor people suck and everyone but the rich are losers.

  12. #2052
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    The problem with the middle class isn't that their pay is slowly eroding or it's harder for them to be successful, it's that they buy fancy beer with a funny name.


    I will sum up all of Sluggo's arguments in a nutshell: poor people suck and everyone but the rich are losers.
    Us millennials have been brought down by avocado toast. Trump really is trying to save us all with his wall.


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  13. #2053
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Bolded…It doesn't stop with them unless they stick it in their mattress and sit on it.m If they put it in the bank or into some investment, the money moves.

    Stop having kids if you can't afford it??? You shouldn't do anything you can't afford.

    Re: the CEO making $14 mil a year. Does he make all that or is a lot of it stock options based on his success. And even if it is a cash outlay to his pocket, I guess the company can afford it or they wouldn't pay it, and quite possible if he wasn't paid that amount he wouldn't be working so hard to get it.

    Why is the CEOs salary such an atrocity to people but athletes, rockers, movie stars, the entire entertainment business salaries never an issue? I never understood that.

    What has changed over the last 30 years that affects having a comfortable secure life…that's easy…stuff. Tons of stuff that is considered normal today that never required an outlay of cash years ago. I spend approx $6 thousand a year on cell phones and television service (and I don't have a cell phone. Wife and kids have theirs). Another $6 thousand or so on car insurance. Heaven forbid any one take mass transit. Drive everywhere with navi systems. House with a pool…common in many areas. Eat out 5-6 times a month. Clothes are bought, worn for about a year and replaced…never gets repaired. Always have to be in style. Bourbon…can only buy premium bourbon. Can't just serve scotch…gotta be single malt. Beer that's not craft beer with a funny name…seriously? There's just more stuff to spend money on and easy to do even you have no money.

    I think some adjustments are necessary. Maybe pay company executives some sort of percentage of bottom line (I can just see those accounting meetings). Maybe a little more realistic in how you pay employees who stick around. I definitely believe in company paid health insurance (doing this for thirty years. Getting very expensive.) Would support a reasonable national health care plan. How about a national sales tax that goes directly to some national health care plan. One in which everyone pays even thew poor.

    College tuition…never hear about lowering professor's wages … any idea how much these pompous tenured people make? Can't they take a pay cut? College in Texas spent $10 million a few years ago renovating the football locker room. How can they justify high tuition when there is that kind of money around. Does every college in the state need to be building a new research facility for something…seems that way. nEverything is on line now but textbooks still go for $100+. Does that make sense.

    So there is plenty of room to make adjustments…not just the $14 million CEO.
    Of course there are plenty of adjustments that can be made but people are pointing out a very obvious issue. If the company can afford to pay their CEO 14 million then they can also afford to pay their lower/middle class workers a living wage (15+ per hour). The idea that we can't afford a lot of these ideas is pretty ridiculous when you go around defending a CEO making 14 mil because the company must be able to afford it then.

    The issue is that corporations and people at the top are making decisions for themselves and to earn more money. Nothing wrong with that but at the same time you can't ignore that is often the goal either. When they say they can't do this or that to help the society/people in this country as a whole what they really mean is they don't wan't to because it cuts into those profits not that they can't because they can't afford it. The laws in place will apply to everyone including the entertainment industry, points like this make little sense.

    You are not in charge of how others live their life nor do the things you say get into anything about the actual wealth gaps etc. in this country. Sure we could be fine with 1% having everything and everyone else only gets food/shelter/clothing to the point of staying alive if we wanted with no luxuries at all. Why push for it though and try to control what others want/like instead of being logical about the actual situation as a whole?

    There is plenty of room to make adjustment, you just seem to be against some of the most obvious/common sense approaches and blame every day workers for wanting to live normal lives.

  14. #2054
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    The problem with the middle class isn't that their pay is slowly eroding or it's harder for them to be successful, it's that they buy fancy beer with a funny name.


    I will sum up all of Sluggo's arguments in a nutshell: poor people suck and everyone but the rich are losers.
    I will sum up this absurd response…
    I've been around the rich, I've been around the poor (and I've been poor)…the rich are more fun.

  15. #2055
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Of course there are plenty of adjustments that can be made but people are pointing out a very obvious issue. If the company can afford to pay their CEO 14 million then they can also afford to pay their lower/middle class workers a living wage (15+ per hour). The idea that we can't afford a lot of these ideas is pretty ridiculous when you go around defending a CEO making 14 mil because the company must be able to afford it then.

    The issue is that corporations and people at the top are making decisions for themselves and to earn more money. Nothing wrong with that but at the same time you can't ignore that is often the goal either. When they say they can't do this or that to help the society/people in this country as a whole what they really mean is they don't wan't to because it cuts into those profits not that they can't because they can't afford it. The laws in place will apply to everyone including the entertainment industry, points like this make little sense.

    You are not in charge of how others live their life nor do the things you say get into anything about the actual wealth gaps etc. in this country. Sure we could be fine with 1% having everything and everyone else only gets food/shelter/clothing to the point of staying alive if we wanted with no luxuries at all. Why push for it though and try to control what others want/like instead of being logical about the actual situation as a whole?

    There is plenty of room to make adjustment, you just seem to be against some of the most obvious/common sense approaches and blame every day workers for wanting to live normal lives.
    Tell an athlete that their salary will be capped at $1 mil. See how much the game declines.

    Tell a movie star that their salary will be capped at $1 mil. See how the movies decline.

    Tell a rocker that ticket prices will be capped at $10. See how that industry changes.

    These high priced CEOs make a ton and that seems to bother people. OK pass a law to fire them all with one year's severance. They'll be fine. Then tag the next top guy's salary to A.…company's bottom line and B a ratio of the lowest guy's salary and C cap his compensation at, oh let's say, $5 million. See what happens.

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