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  1. #1636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Now you are talking. This makes much more sense to me. In fact, earlier, I said that the Trump base and the Sanders base have a great deal in common economically ó albeit perhaps not culturally (which is, of course, the wedge that is most useful to the elites as they sow discontent).
    The biggest difference to me, is that one is a complete fraud and only pretends to give a ****.

    And then he uses that cultural wedge as a distraction.


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  2. #1637
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    The biggest difference to me, is that one is a complete fraud and only pretends to give a ****.

    And then he uses that cultural wedge as a distraction.
    But I was not talking about Trump and Sanders themselves. I was talking about their followers.

  3. #1638
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Now you are talking. This makes much more sense to me. In fact, earlier, I said that the Trump base and the Sanders base have a great deal in common economically ó albeit perhaps not culturally (which is, of course, the wedge that is most useful to the elites as they sow discontent).
    I don't believe 'soaking the rich' is the solution, I agree that many "working rich" may leave as a result of over-taxation.

    Republicans have been great in the past, their declaration was that all men were created equal.

    "Our Declaration of Independence says that each individual has certain basic rights, which are neither conferred by nor derived from the state. To discover where they came from it is necessary to move back behind the dim mist of eternity, for they are God-given." MLK Jr.

    This is not something Congress can fix by passing a law, it's still a dream.

    "What country ever existed a century and a half without rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacific them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's nature mature." Thomas Jefferson

    Jefferson was criticized by other more conservative founders who wanted to take harsh action against the rebels (Shay's rebellion) and even insinuating that British propaganda was influencing their decision.

    Men have the right to a just government, have natural rights, and have the right to consent to be governed. They have the right to a little rebellion too. If that rebellion is not justified legally, the state has a right to put down the rebellion, but still, ďlet us not punish that rebellion so harshly that it deters future patriotsĒ.
    Last edited by kevin13697; 02-05-2019 at 05:54 PM.

  4. #1639
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    19,138
    Comparing AOC to Trump is simply inaccurate. If you were in a meeting and would rather have AOC by your side, you're losing. Trump is far more capable (as unlikely as it seems) of understanding/comprehending things than AOC. I mean, just look at some of her arguments:

    1) Federally guaranteed jobs with a $15 minimum wage for anyone who wants a job. (Does she not realize that taxpayers would be heavily burdened and the government would be way too intrusive?)

    2) Wants every car on the road to be electric. Who will fund it? Millions of cars, all electric. Who manufacturers it? Does she not know batteries for electric vehicles are not environmentally friendly? Or that the manufacturers are not equipped to mass produce electric vehicles? Does she not know there are over 260 million registered vehicles in America? And what does she plan on doing with the vehicles that are fueled by gas?

    3) Doesn't have a clue how the tax code works. Keeps quoting 90%. Nobody paid those rates. As a reference, my parents could literally deduct anything they wanted to push their tax rates way below the marginal tax rate. Plus, she fails to mention that the middle class also had a higher tax rate upwards of 60%.

    4) Three chambers of government, according to a congresswoman getting paid $180k = Senate, House of Representatives, Presidency. Uhhh, this is fifth grade social studies material. Even if she misspoke, it wasn't like she confused the three branches - which is a more plausible mistake.

    5) Thinks the military gets $1.4 trillion dollars. Also said the military didn't even ask for the additional $700 billion increase. Wrong. Any agency would want more money and funding. For her to claim they don't is a blatant lie.

    6) Thinks there are over 500 million Americans.

    7) Thinks the unemployment rate is based off the amount of multiple jobs an individual is working and the hours.

    8) Said Ben Shapiro was catcalling her when he offered $10,000 to her charity so they could have a debate. Regardless of his intent (which is clearly so he could embarrass her), calling that catcalling is such a joke.

    9) 70% tax rate. As much as I would like wealthy people making over $10 million to be taxed so I can get more benefits, it's unrealistic to think it would work. Does she not realize that federal income taxes only account for one of many taxes? State taxes, city taxes, and medicare taxes.. In some states, the tax over $10 million could reach 85% of their income. In the case of NYC and California, that's what wealthy people would have to pay. Why would anyone work long hours just to receive 15% of their income? Imagine being LeBron and only being allowed to keep $15 - 20 million out of his $86 million. Yeah, totally fair.

    10) Medicare for all will be, by most conservative estimates, $3 trillion per year. Our budget was $4 trillion last year. She wants 75% of the budget to go towards Medicare.

    11) When asked how she will pay for these policies, she said, "No one asks how we will pay for the space force." Studies show that the space force that Trump planned to fund would only cost $3 billion in a five year span. She's comparing $3 trillion to $600 million. Totally appropriate.

    12) She thinks Walmart and Amazon are paying people less than the minimum wage. Apparently, AOC doesn't realize that doing so is ILLEGAL. She should be filing a class action lawsuit against Walmart and Amazon if that were the case.

    13) "The world will end in 12 years." That's not what the report said.. clearly her comprehension skills are lacking. Even better is her claiming that this is like WW2. The hell?

    14) Claims Warren Buffett should pay a 15% tax rate.. Majority of Buffett's income is through capital gains. He'll be taxed 20% for any long-term capital gains. He's paying MORE than what she says he should pay. In short, she doesn't know what capital gains tax really is.

    15) Corporate tax rate was 35% before Trump took office. She claims it was never that high. Remember, this is a congresswoman who will have the right to propose legislation and vote on them. She wants to raise taxes but doesn't even know the current tax rates or the tax rates just two years ago.

    16) Abolish all student loans. Yeah, totally fair. I am still paying off my student loans and am more than 80% done. Why should we penalize those who made the right choices and subsidize those who don't?

    I can go on and on but really, she's a joke. She won her district by less than 4,000 votes in what was a heavily immigrant population where the majority were hispanics and very left. Crower doesn't even live in the district and no one even knew who he was because he didn't even bother putting much effort campaigning here. But hey, only in America can you be a bartender in one year and a U.S. Congresswoman the next year. What a country.

  5. #1640
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    Imagine making a list of things Trump doesn't have any idea about, and or lied about. Holy ****. Include a few things that the person who made said list is fabricating or misrepresenting to make his point! Add some things that could be easily explained if you turned off Hannity for a second and took a second to read up on things.

    Millions of numbers!
    HELLO

  6. #1641
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Imagine making a list of things Trump doesn't have any idea about, and or lied about. Holy ****. Include a few things that the person who made said list is fabricating or misrepresenting to make his point! Add some things that could be easily explained if you turned off Hannity for a second and took a second to read up on things.

    Millions of numbers!
    You're deflecting here, buddy. This doesn't have anything to do with Trump. AOC controls what she says and this is what she said. Trying to drag Trump into this doesn't change the fact AOC is incompetent. That's what's wrong with politics today. People think because one party does something, the other party is allowed to do the same.

  7. #1642
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  8. #1643
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    You're deflecting here, buddy. This doesn't have anything to do with Trump. AOC controls what she says and this is what she said. Trying to drag Trump into this doesn't change the fact AOC is incompetent. That's what's wrong with politics today. People think because one party does something, the other party is allowed to do the same.
    I'm not deflecting by talking about Trump.

    Your post started with these word:

    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    Comparing AOC to Trump is simply inaccurate. If you were in a meeting and would rather have AOC by your side, you're losing. Trump is far more capable (as unlikely as it seems) of understanding/comprehending things than AOC. I mean, just look at some of her arguments:
    HELLO

  9. #1644
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    You're deflecting here, buddy. This doesn't have anything to do with Trump. AOC controls what she says and this is what she said. Trying to drag Trump into this doesn't change the fact AOC is incompetent. That's what's wrong with politics today. People think because one party does something, the other party is allowed to do the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    Comparing AOC to Trump is simply inaccurate. If you were in a meeting and would rather have AOC by your side, you're losing. Trump is far more capable (as unlikely as it seems) of understanding/comprehending things than AOC. I mean, just look at some of her arguments:"
    This was your first paragraph lol. You made the direct comparison yourself from the start. I don't think AOC is great but you can easily make a much longer list for the guy you mention above.

    For just an example of issues on your points, #10 is something that a majority of Americans support and a recent analysis found that it not only helps everyone get covered but could likely help with costs etc too.

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...dicare-for-all
    https://www.businessinsider.com/bern...e-money-2018-7
    https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...ost-efficiency

    There are more but I don't have time to keep going atm.

  10. #1645
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    But whatabout Trump???!?

    AOC is digging a hole. So far I don't see any Dem candidates that are not. But I hold out hope.

  11. #1646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    But whatabout Trump???!?

    AOC is digging a hole. So far I don't see any Dem candidates that are not. But I hold out hope.
    Did you read his post? In this case it was actually responding to a direct comparison he was making himself. If anything his post was a whatabout AOC in defense of Trump. Here I already quoted and bolded it but

    "Comparing AOC to Trump is simply inaccurate. If you were in a meeting and would rather have AOC by your side, you're losing. Trump is far more capable (as unlikely as it seems) of understanding/comprehending things than AOC. I mean, just look at some of her arguments:"

    His entire point here is that AOC is worse than Trump because... A defense of her not being as bad as Trump is things Trump has actually done, yes. The one bringing Trump up out of nowhere was Flashbolt and the one initially comparing the two was also Flashbolt.

  12. #1647
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    Comparing AOC to Trump is simply inaccurate. If you were in a meeting and would rather have AOC by your side, you're losing. Trump is far more capable (as unlikely as it seems) of understanding/comprehending things than AOC. I mean, just look at some of her arguments:

    1) Federally guaranteed jobs with a $15 minimum wage for anyone who wants a job. (Does she not realize that taxpayers would be heavily burdened and the government would be way too intrusive?)

    2) Wants every car on the road to be electric. Who will fund it? Millions of cars, all electric. Who manufacturers it? Does she not know batteries for electric vehicles are not environmentally friendly? Or that the manufacturers are not equipped to mass produce electric vehicles? Does she not know there are over 260 million registered vehicles in America? And what does she plan on doing with the vehicles that are fueled by gas?

    3) Doesn't have a clue how the tax code works. Keeps quoting 90%. Nobody paid those rates. As a reference, my parents could literally deduct anything they wanted to push their tax rates way below the marginal tax rate. Plus, she fails to mention that the middle class also had a higher tax rate upwards of 60%.

    4) Three chambers of government, according to a congresswoman getting paid $180k = Senate, House of Representatives, Presidency. Uhhh, this is fifth grade social studies material. Even if she misspoke, it wasn't like she confused the three branches - which is a more plausible mistake.

    5) Thinks the military gets $1.4 trillion dollars. Also said the military didn't even ask for the additional $700 billion increase. Wrong. Any agency would want more money and funding. For her to claim they don't is a blatant lie.

    6) Thinks there are over 500 million Americans.

    7) Thinks the unemployment rate is based off the amount of multiple jobs an individual is working and the hours.

    8) Said Ben Shapiro was catcalling her when he offered $10,000 to her charity so they could have a debate. Regardless of his intent (which is clearly so he could embarrass her), calling that catcalling is such a joke.

    9) 70% tax rate. As much as I would like wealthy people making over $10 million to be taxed so I can get more benefits, it's unrealistic to think it would work. Does she not realize that federal income taxes only account for one of many taxes? State taxes, city taxes, and medicare taxes.. In some states, the tax over $10 million could reach 85% of their income. In the case of NYC and California, that's what wealthy people would have to pay. Why would anyone work long hours just to receive 15% of their income? Imagine being LeBron and only being allowed to keep $15 - 20 million out of his $86 million. Yeah, totally fair.

    10) Medicare for all will be, by most conservative estimates, $3 trillion per year. Our budget was $4 trillion last year. She wants 75% of the budget to go towards Medicare.

    11) When asked how she will pay for these policies, she said, "No one asks how we will pay for the space force." Studies show that the space force that Trump planned to fund would only cost $3 billion in a five year span. She's comparing $3 trillion to $600 million. Totally appropriate.

    12) She thinks Walmart and Amazon are paying people less than the minimum wage. Apparently, AOC doesn't realize that doing so is ILLEGAL. She should be filing a class action lawsuit against Walmart and Amazon if that were the case.

    13) "The world will end in 12 years." That's not what the report said.. clearly her comprehension skills are lacking. Even better is her claiming that this is like WW2. The hell?

    14) Claims Warren Buffett should pay a 15% tax rate.. Majority of Buffett's income is through capital gains. He'll be taxed 20% for any long-term capital gains. He's paying MORE than what she says he should pay. In short, she doesn't know what capital gains tax really is.

    15) Corporate tax rate was 35% before Trump took office. She claims it was never that high. Remember, this is a congresswoman who will have the right to propose legislation and vote on them. She wants to raise taxes but doesn't even know the current tax rates or the tax rates just two years ago.

    16) Abolish all student loans. Yeah, totally fair. I am still paying off my student loans and am more than 80% done. Why should we penalize those who made the right choices and subsidize those who don't?

    I can go on and on but really, she's a joke. She won her district by less than 4,000 votes in what was a heavily immigrant population where the majority were hispanics and very left. Crower doesn't even live in the district and no one even knew who he was because he didn't even bother putting much effort campaigning here. But hey, only in America can you be a bartender in one year and a U.S. Congresswoman the next year. What a country.
    So for a lot of these you have little data/stats/science or any real proof of what she has said and why your opinions on some of these issues matter more than hers. I get you have opinions and so does she so in order to prove anything you need some data too (like I provided for 10). I can't tell what she has actually said and what you are making up here from your own opinion and what she is actually saying/said. 9 for example seems like your opinion while most are for it http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...-tax-rate.html

    for example 3 what do you mean? Like when many have pointed out our tax code's history and what it was in the past? I believe under Eisenhower it actually was that high for example so if they are doing it in that context doesn't it make sense?

    Any issues in particular you have with actual substance? I think some of what you say is true she seems ignorant on certain issues and often is a little more based in what she thinks is right (emotion) than necessarily smart ideas. I don't think she is great necessarily but I also don't think the comparison you made is valid at all.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 02-06-2019 at 04:29 PM.

  13. #1648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    But whatabout Trump???!?
    The post that started this discussion: "Here's a whole post about why I think AOC is worse than Trump, largely consisting of opinion I'm stating as fact, intentionally misrepresenting information and blowing innocuous quotes way out of proportion".

    Responses: "THIS is how you're proving she's worse than Trump?!??! By listing some things you think she said that are dumb/lies/uninformed!?!?!?"

    Conservatives: "Why are you deflecting by bringing up Trump?!?!?"



    Love the discourse on PSD dot com slash politics. Y'all are a bunch of weirdos

  14. #1649
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    Who in this country wants Socialism...

    Fossil Fuels is going nowhere!

    She is a dope!

    So in 10 years nobody has a car unless they are electric?

    Planes canít fly anymore?

    You canít cut your grass?

    Come on Cortez! Get real!

    Her crap would never fly in this Country.
    Probably the best Pearl Jam concert performance
    PINKPOP 1992

    1. Even Flow
    2. Why Go
    3. Jeremy
    4. Alive
    5. Black
    6.Leash
    7.Once
    8. Porch
    9. Rockin the Free World


  15. #1650
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrzubnyy View Post
    Who in this country wants Socialism...

    Fossil Fuels is going nowhere!

    She is a dope!

    So in 10 years nobody has a car unless they are electric?

    Planes canít fly anymore?

    You canít cut your grass?

    Come on Cortez! Get real!

    Her crap would never fly in this Country.
    Do you just accumulate useless comments from Qanon and Breitbart and post them? It really seems like youíre posting has become like tourette syndrome.

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