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Thread: Mvp?

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush View Post
    And that doesn't make sense.
    I think what you want is for them to change the voting rules. Hell they tell them to consider general character, disposition, loyalty, and effort. On top of that they are told there is no clear cut definition of what "most valuable" means.
    Last edited by flips333; 08-10-2018 at 07:38 AM.

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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    I do mind it. I mind it a lot.

    Where do we draw the line? We all know that team success has very little to do with the efforts of one single player. This is an individual award plain and simple. Team success should have NOTHING to do with the MVP or CY Young. That's right, I said NOTHING.

    I draw a hard line here. Get rid of the grey areas and just give the MVP to the player who truly creates the most value with his individual play. It's a simple way to determine a simple award. Most valuable player goes to the most valuable player, not the slightly less valuable player who also happens to have better teammates than most of his peers.

    Donaldson shouldn't have won the AL MVP in 2015. It should have gone to Trout. Donaldson was slightly worse, but he was worse. He wasn't the most valuable player. Trout was better. End of discussion.
    Let me rephrase, I do mind it just not as much as if it were a bigger difference.

    Iíd say Trout was a little bigger of a difference than Donaldson that year by wrc+ and woba but it still was pretty close across everything else essentially. Iíd rather had Trout one but I donít think I did or would have a big stink over it.

    I agree with the rest though and my last sentence in the post you quoted confirms that, kinda.

    Make set criteria on what the MVP is. Take out players that donít make the playoffs then. Make the Hank Aaron award a lot more notable than it is and broadcast it as the rightful parallel to the Cy Young. Just do something to eliminate the gray areas like youíre saying.


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  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush View Post
    And people will use the argument that the Tigers were in the Postseason that year while the Angels were not probably don't realize the Angels had a better record than the Tigers that season lol.
    Another thing with the triple crown is it just so happened to line up that way. It has more to do with other players in the league than it does Cabrera. The year before or after he wouldnít have lead in all 3 categories with the same numbers.

    Thatís out of his control but just something to think about.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush View Post
    And that doesn't make sense.
    I think it actually does make sense.

    It absolutely should be about the effect on the team BUT not in the way of overall standings.

    It doesnít make sense that voters can think one player has more value based out what his teammates have done to affect the standings in its entirety.

    So it doesnít make sense to vote on how a player affects his teammates. Thatís essentially what voters are doing.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush View Post
    That is not the fair/correct thing to do.

    The MVP is an individual award. Common sense says why should teammates be a factor? Why should a player be rewarded/penalized for his teams performance?

    Just as an aside, Howard didn't deserve it in 2006. Pujols was significantly better. So was Beltran.
    Yes, but the fact still remains that over the last 20 years 85% of the MVP winners have come from playoff teams.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    Is Arizona still a hitters park? I thought the humidor changed that.
    I wasn't aware, maybe it has. I haven't look in awhile.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
    But he did. I don't go by shouldn't have's. HE DID.

    And all this 'Trout had a better record in games he played after 10PM when it 80 degrees or higher'. Who cares. Well you do but the voters didn't and shouldn't
    1. I answered all of that, doesn't appear you actually read my entire post.

    The Angels won 89 games, the Tigers won 88 games. But because the Angels were in a tougher division and the way baseball does it's playoffs, they didn't make the playoffs, but the Tigers did.

    And dumbass voters gave Cabrera the award despite this.

    This isn't some random, ******** excuse like what they did after 10 pm when it's 80 degrees like you are trying to make it out. Their final record was better lol.

    2. This was 6 years ago, and voters aren't that dumb anymore, and we have new voters. 6 years may not sound like a lot, but it's obvious that the voters know better considering they have been making smarter votes since.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by #24 View Post
    MVP has historically been a bit controversial. It's not about the best player, it's about who the voters think is the "most valuable" (whatever exactly that means) which are kinda two different things.

    Would be interesting to see results of 3 groups voting their MVP (hypothetically of course). Group 'a' would be the players (no votes for a teammate), group 'b' would be managers, coaches, and GM's, and group 'c' would be recently (say 3 yrs min to 10 yrs max) retired players. I'd guess there'd be quite a difference of opinions there. Different perspectives on the game for sure.
    I think the players would simply vote for guys they liked and guys who were athletic, not necessarily producers.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    Make set criteria on what the MVP is. Take out players that donít make the playoffs then. Make the Hank Aaron award a lot more notable than it is and broadcast it as the rightful parallel to the Cy Young. Just do something to eliminate the gray areas like youíre saying.


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    agreed

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldjerky View Post
    Another thing with the triple crown is it just so happened to line up that way. It has more to do with other players in the league than it does Cabrera. The year before or after he wouldnít have lead in all 3 categories with the same numbers.

    Thatís out of his control but just something to think about.


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    2012 was the perfect storm of analytics vs traditional.

    Trout was the better hitter in terms of analytics
    Trout had the positional value, the defensive value
    Trout was on the better team in a harder division
    Miggy wouldn't have won the triple crown in almost any other year, but got lucky and pulled it out that year


    This was during a time where voting was changing, Felix had won the Cy Young in 2010 based on analytics, but there was plenty of resistance in the field. It's much less resistant now than it was in 2012.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    Yes, but the fact still remains that over the last 20 years 85% of the MVP winners have come from playoff teams.
    Over the last 3 years (with new voters no less), it's only 50%

  12. #312
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    and Carpenter homered again, now 6 in 7 games (and was robbed once)

    Now has 32, 29 in his last 316 PA

    Cards now 10-4 since they shuffled the bullpen (1.34 ERA)
    Last edited by Jeffy25; 08-10-2018 at 09:41 PM.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    and Carpenter homered again, now 6 in 7 games (and was robbed once)

    Now has 32, 29 in his last 316 PA

    Cards now 10-4 since they shuffled the bullpen (1.34 ERA)
    Dude stop man. We don't care. Make sure you give these updates when Carpenter goes 0 fer and the Cards go on an inevitable patented losing streak when they aren't playing KC and Miami anymore

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
    Dude stop man. We don't care. Make sure you give these updates when Carpenter goes 0 fer and the Cards go on an inevitable patented losing streak when they aren't playing KC and Miami anymore
    3.5 out of wild card and Carpenter has expanded his lead over the rest of the NL
    Baez was 0 for 3 with a walk
    Arenado is currently 0 for 2 and the Rockies are 0-3 since this thread started, while the Cards are 3-0


    If the argument is team play, that's getting better. If the argument is that Carpenter hasn't done enough, then I'd say that's changed. 46 games left, we'll see.



    I'll add that with Trout being on the shelf and Betts hitting so well, he's starting to take that MVP from Trout.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
    Dude stop man. We don't care. Make sure you give these updates when Carpenter goes 0 fer and the Cards go on an inevitable patented losing streak when they aren't playing KC and Miami anymore
    Speak for yourself, Mr. Miserable.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

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