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  1. #4066
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    Youíre right. Your description of slavery under Muhammad is not what I think of slavery in that I donít believe slavery is some Disneyland alternative to death. Using your logic, slavery in America was a positive because the slaves transported to America most likely faced death in their current situation. The slave owners felt compassion towards the uncivilized, uneducated slaves so they allowed them to work in their fields. It was all peaches and cream.

    Like I said early on, perhaps itís best if we donít judge historical figures for living in the era that they did...
    The fact that when I describe slavery as exerted by Muhammad, your response is to call it a Disneyland type of situation, illustrates my point even further.

    I believe this is the second time in this argument you have unknowingly agreed with my premise.

    Words like positive, and better, and good are swirling around in your head, not mine. That's why you're having so much trouble following what I'm saying.

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    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  2. #4067
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I know Iíve been out of this convo for awhile... but are you claiming itís not slavery if they have rights?

    Because the ownership of another human being is what makes it slavery, not the conditions they are subjected to while being owned.


    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    This how radically different these slave systems were, that one of them you are flat out saying it is not slavery. It IS slavery, it's just not what you think of when you think of slavery. Which is the point I've been making since the start of this discussion.

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    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  3. #4068
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    I do feel he practiced racial and religious supremacy to those who weren't Arab or muslim. His actions show this.
    Expand on that...

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    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  4. #4069
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    What Muhammad put in place was slavery. Taking men, woman and children as property/sex slaves. So I'll say it again.. Was Muhammad wrong for having slaves? Yes or no?
    He didnt put anything in place. The slave trade was HUGE, alive, and thriving in the arab world before islam. Muhammad put forth a system which over time effectively kills the slave trade. That's what he put in place. Read about history fom academics and scholars, not muslim hating preachers and reverends.

    In my opinion, if I were alive in that time and that place, yes I would DEFINITELY think hes wrong for taking slaves. I would strongly argue against his approach and volley for killing them. I'm not trying to sleep with one eye open, I have no clue why he was...

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  5. #4070
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    Yet, there are many people who have been to jail/prison who have become influential members of our society. Isn't that your qualifier to show Muhammad's slavery was good? Sounds like you should view these two forms of "slavery" about equal.
    Like joey you are unknowingly agreeing with my premise here. Yes, slavery at that time is much more in line with the American prison system than the American slave system. Without a doubt.

    This has been my point this whole time. Glad to see you see it too.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  6. #4071
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Christianity have done more harm historically then Islam.
    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Seems like something thatís impossible to quantify, though if weíre trying, Iíd argue Christianity has also done more good than Islam as well.


    So who wins?

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    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  7. #4072
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post

    As I said several times, perhaps itís best if we donít judge historical and religious figures since we didnít live in that time and we are looking at them with advanced morality.
    Morality doesn't advance.

    You're thinking of technology!

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  8. #4073
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Expand on that...

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    Trading one Arab for two black slaves, calling blacks raisin heads, putting forth the idea that those who are not muslim are not innocent, or that Jews and Christians are the worst of creatures, Sharia, things like that.
    Last edited by nessythegreat; 08-11-2020 at 06:10 PM.

  9. #4074
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Morality doesn't advance.

    You're thinking of technology!

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    What?

    50 years ago, gay people would stay hidden. Now they are allowed to be married.

    70 years ago, black people rode on the back of buses, drank from different water fountains, and used different bathrooms. Now morality is much more advanced.

  10. #4075
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    He didnt put anything in place. The slave trade was HUGE, alive, and thriving in the arab world before islam. Muhammad put forth a system which over time effectively kills the slave trade. That's what he put in place. Read about history fom academics and scholars, not muslim hating preachers and reverends.

    In my opinion, if I were alive in that time and that place, yes I would DEFINITELY think hes wrong for taking slaves. I would strongly argue against his approach and volley for killing them. I'm not trying to sleep with one eye open, I have no clue why he was...

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    Yes he did, he put his slavery in place. Which led to the Arab slave trade. If he wanted to effectively kill the slave trade, he could've done it by not owning a slave. He didn't and he didn't.
    Why does it have to be in that time and place? Do you think Muhammad was wrong for owning slaves? Yes or No?

  11. #4076
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    So who wins?

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    Nobody because they have both been bastardized by nations to further their power. Both religions stress compassion, but we know that isn't so in reality. It seems the powerless belief in the words of God more than those who hold power within both religion. Here in our own country, we have Christian organizations supporting Trump and during the Iraq invasions, some preachers were screaming death to muslims.

    I just can't judge another religion because of the sins of my own.
    Last edited by WES445; 08-11-2020 at 06:13 PM.
    WE STILL KNOW WHERE THE PITCHFORKS ARE:Beau of the Fifth Column, you tube.

  12. #4077
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    The morality of slavery was conflicted and yes, many felt as though it was morally abhorrent. However, it was legal and without it, many plantations would cease to exist.

    Itís like iPhones. We know several companies exploit cheap labor in China. The morality of this is conflicted at best. Yet we still but the products. Perhaps, one day, people will consider us immoral for owning cellphones...
    I dont think the morality of slavery was conflicted at all. It goes against human intuition. I think people knew exactly what they were doing.

    Just like today. Maybe in a 100 years people will look back and be like man, america had some crazy morality issues, constantly murdering random little children in order to secure large business contracts. That doesnt mean people doing this stuff right now are somehow mentally incapable of understanding what they're doing. They know exactly what they doing.

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    Last edited by nastynice; 08-11-2020 at 06:26 PM.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  13. #4078
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    If you want to judge Christianity today, please do so based on the New Testament, books written since Jesus' time on earth. i.e. In Paul's 2nd letter to the Corinthians he wrote if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away and the new has come.

    After all, prior to Christ, Christianity didn't exist. The belief was in God, Christ had not yet come.
    I will do that when Christians remove the old testament from the bible. I don't know about your branch of christianity, but I have heard different dominations preachers quote scripture from the old as well as the new.
    WE STILL KNOW WHERE THE PITCHFORKS ARE:Beau of the Fifth Column, you tube.

  14. #4079
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    Trading one Arab for two black slaves, calling blacks raisin heads, putting forth the idea that those who are not muslim are not innocent, or that Jews and Christians are the worst of creatures, Sharia, things like that.
    lmaoooo, nessy!

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    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  15. #4080
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Seems like something thatís impossible to quantify, though if weíre trying, Iíd argue Christianity has also done more good than Islam as well.
    Really? Historically, how far back should we go? In modern times it has been the Christian nations of Europe and the US that have done a lot of harm to third worlds countries. We don't have the right to consider ourselves a christian nation since we don't follow Christ laws.
    Last edited by WES445; 08-11-2020 at 09:05 PM.
    WE STILL KNOW WHERE THE PITCHFORKS ARE:Beau of the Fifth Column, you tube.

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