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  1. #871
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Exactly my point. Dbroncismo and Special brought up how frequently there are racial hoaxes and I was simply pointing out there are far, far more instances where the racism wasn't a hoax.
    Its such an odd attention getting thing I can see why people would think its the kind of thing that is more likely to be hoax but you can't say "oh that's a hoax". I would judge it not a hoax but with a more skeptical eye then if it was a painted swastika or something a little more typical
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  2. #872
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Its such an odd attention getting thing I can see why people would think its the kind of thing that is more likely to be hoax but you can't say "oh that's a hoax". I would judge it not a hoax but with a more skeptical eye then if it was a painted swastika or something a little more typical
    I'm mostly just perplexed at the mindset of someone whose gut instinct when they see any news (or really any news damaging to their ideology) and immediate think "that's a hoax to make us look bad!". Like we get reports of some crazy sending bombs to democratic politicians and your first thought is "that's a hoax setup by the DNC to frame conservatives!". Like, how deep down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole do you have to be to instinctually think everything is a hoax? Or how brainwashed do you have to believe to think that everyone on your side is good and everyone on the other side is evil.

    When a bunch of liberal protesters yell at a conservative in some restaurant my first thought isn't "those must be paid conservative actors perpetrating a hoax to make liberals look bad!". I realize it's probably a group of ****y liberals yelling at a conservative.

  3. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I'm mostly just perplexed at the mindset of someone whose gut instinct when they see any news (or really any news damaging to their ideology) and immediate think "that's a hoax to make us look bad!". Like we get reports of some crazy sending bombs to democratic politicians and your first thought is "that's a hoax setup by the DNC to frame conservatives!". Like, how deep down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole do you have to be to instinctually think everything is a hoax? Or how brainwashed do you have to believe to think that everyone on your side is good and everyone on the other side is evil.

    When a bunch of liberal protesters yell at a conservative in some restaurant my first thought isn't "those must be paid conservative actors perpetrating a hoax to make liberals look bad!". I realize it's probably a group of ****y liberals yelling at a conservative.
    I hear ya
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  4. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    And legitimate racist episodes have happened far more often.
    I'm not questioning how often racism happens, just pointing out that hoaxes happen and shouldn't be ignored like they typically are. the reason I posted what I did is because typically this is ignored. the incidents that turn out to be hoaxes don't get the same media attention/media coverage.

    this was the case in a recent story from Kansas.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...s-to-be-a-hoax

    Kansas State police say a person who reported being the target of a racist slur admitted it was a hoax.

    The Wichita Eagle reports it was the second time in two years that a report of racist slurs at Kansas State was a hoax.

    Kansas State officers were called to the Jardine Apartment Complex on the Manhattan campus Monday, where a note containing a racial slur was hung on a door. Police said in a news release Thursday that during questioning the person who reported the note admitted creating and posting it.

    In November 2017, a man reported having racist slurs painted on his car in Manhattan. The FBI investigated the case as a possible hate crime.

    Riley County police says 21-year-old Dauntarius Williams, who owned the car, eventually admitted being responsible for the graffiti.
    these happen too, and they deserve to also get attention.





    valade16 you didn't answer this question.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    yes, wrong. why was it used? I'm guessing because Cindy Hyde-Smith made a comment about public hanging?
    question, have public hangings only been done through history as lynching black people?
    the answer is no.

    what did she say?
    “If he invited me to a public hanging, I’d be on the front row.”

    insensitive sure, but racist? had she said the word lynching then I could understand calling it racist, but I don't think she meant this referring to lynching black people.

    she did apologize..

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1NQ06P

    Republican U.S. Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith of Mississippi apologized on Tuesday for making a comment about public hangings, but accused her black Democratic opponent in a special election runoff of twisting her words for political gain.

    The Senate runoff next Tuesday between Hyde-Smith, a white former state lawmaker who was appointed to the Senate seat in April, and Democrat Mike Espy, a former congressman and U.S. agriculture secretary, has been engulfed in controversy since video of the remark surfaced last week.

    The video showed Hyde-Smith at a Nov. 2 public event praising a supporter by saying: “If he invited me to a public hanging, I’d be on the front row.”

    The comment set off a furor in Mississippi, a state scarred by a history of racism and violence against blacks, including lynching. Until Tuesday, Hyde-Smith had refused to apologize or explain the remarks.

    “For anyone that was offended by my comments, I certainly apologize,” Hyde-Smith said during a debate with Espy in Jackson, Mississippi.

    “There was no ill will, no intent whatsoever in my statement,” she said. “This comment was twisted and it was turned into a weapon to use against me, a political weapon used for nothing but personal and political gain by my opponent.”
    maybe I'm naive but I don't think was intended as a racist comment, and one can point to public hangings happening through history that were not related to lynching/hanging black people.


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  5. #875
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    still waiting on comments for above about public hangings and hoaxes.


    more news to counter that hateful people are all on the right.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...-with-a-stolen

    Man pleads guilty to planning to flip Trump’s limo with a stolen forklift
    A North Dakota man has pleaded guilty to planning to use a stolen forklift to flip President Trump’s limo.

    Gregory Lee Leingang, 42, pleaded guilty Friday to federal charges related to an incident in September 2017, when he was arrested for stealing a forklift from a restricted building and attempting to enter Trump’s motorcade route.

    U.S. Assistant State's Attorney Brandi Sasse Russell said that Leingang attempted to steal the forklift in an effort to “kill the president.”

    "The intent was to basically try to get to the limo, flip the limo and get to the president and he wanted to kill the president," Sasse Russell said, according to the Grand Forks Herald.

    Trump visited Mandan, N.D., in September 2017 to speak on a tax reform at an oil refinery.

    Leingang, who also pleaded guilty to separate charges of burglary and setting two fires on the same morning he stole the forklift, has been sentenced to a total of 20 years in state prison. A federal sentencing hearing is set for February.

    Leingang’s public defender said that he was “suffering a serious psychiatric crisis” during the incident, according to the Grand Forks Herald.

    He is seeing a psychiatrist and therapist in prison, according to the newspaper.





    speaking of hoaxes..

    https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...129-story.html

    Police arrested a Goucher College student in connection with two incidents of racist graffiti found in a campus dorm, which rattled the student body in recent weeks.

    Fynn Ajani Arthur, a 21-year-old from Brunswick, Maine, was arrested at about 6 p.m. on the Towson campus Thursday and charged with two counts of malicious destruction of property, Baltimore County police said.

    No attorney was listed in court records as representing Arthur. Efforts to reach Arthur and his family Friday were not successful.

    Arthur’s arrest came after graffiti aimed at African-Americans and Latinos was found Thursday around 1:50 a.m. on the second floor of a campus dorm, one floor above where similar graffiti had been found Nov. 14, Goucher College administrators said in a statement.

    In both incidents, specific individuals were targeted and the graffiti included a backward swastika, according to the statement from Goucher president José Bowen, vice president and dean Bryan Coker, interim associate dean Nicole Johnson and director of public safety David Heffer. The graffiti found Thursday included swastikas and "KKK," and appeared to include the last names of four black students, including Arthur, who is also black, according to police.
    these typically don't get the same media attention.


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  6. #876
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    Special's defense of public lynching's being racist is that they didn't solely happen to black people lol.

    That kind of logic is right up there with "because the Nazis also sent gypsies and homosexuals to concentration camps then concentration camps weren't racist against Jews".

  7. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Special's defense of public lynching's being racist is that they didn't solely happen to black people lol.

    That kind of logic is right up there with "because the Nazis also sent gypsies and homosexuals to concentration camps then concentration camps weren't racist against Jews".
    she didn't say public lynching, that is the point. public hangings were not only lynching.


    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post

    valade16 you didn't answer this question.

    yes, wrong. why was it used? I'm guessing because Cindy Hyde-Smith made a comment about public hanging?
    question, have public hangings only been done through history as lynching black people?
    the answer is no.

    what did she say?
    “If he invited me to a public hanging, I’d be on the front row.”

    insensitive sure, but racist? had she said the word lynching then I could understand calling it racist, but I don't think she meant this referring to lynching black people.



    maybe I'm naive but I don't think was intended as a racist comment, and one can point to public hangings happening through history that were not related to lynching/hanging black people.
    public hangings through history were not exclusive to lynching black people.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangin..._United_States

    During the Salem witch trials, most of the men and women convicted of witchcraft were sentenced to public hanging. It is estimated that seventeen women and two men were hanged as a result of the trials.
    was it also racist to hang these witches?

    to recap, she said public hanging, not public lynching. had she said the word lynching then I could understand calling it racist.


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  8. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Special's defense of public lynching's being racist is that they didn't solely happen to black people lol.

    That kind of logic is right up there with "because the Nazis also sent gypsies and homosexuals to concentration camps then concentration camps weren't racist against Jews".
    I can't bother to read what Special posts, but lynchings have always been illegal in the US, but they have not always been racially motivated just like a lot of people were nailed to crosses and they were not all motivated by religion. That said the cross and a man hanging from a tree have absolutely certain connotations.

  9. #879
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    The ongoing violent protests in France may well be a portent of things to come here in the US.

  10. #880
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    Macron might not need his EU army to protect his people from the big bad USA, he might need it to protect himself from his own people.
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  11. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    The ongoing violent protests in France may well be a portent of things to come here in the US.
    Should put all the Neolibs on notice: Macron cut taxes for the rich (the people responsible for climate change) while shifting the burden to the working class. That is a devastatingly wrong approach. His popularity is rightfully in the dumps. And one can only hope that his Neoliberal failings don't pave the way to someone like Le Pen.

    There is no centrist approach to stopping climate change. Green New Deal or bust!
    HELLO

  12. #882
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Should put all the Neolibs on notice: Macron cut taxes for the rich (the people responsible for climate change) while shifting the burden to the working class. That is a devastatingly wrong approach. His popularity is rightfully in the dumps. And one can only hope that his Neoliberal failings don't pave the way to someone like Le Pen.

    There is no centrist approach to stopping climate change. Green New Deal or bust!
    LePen’s neice (Marion Marechal) is making quite a name for herself as the representative of another facet of the New French Right, a group made up largely of young people in their 20’s, as she is. Most are Roman Catholic, in favor of community values and traditional family units, and not surprisingly, anti-EU and anti-immigration.

    But — and here’s the shift away from conservatism as it appears now in the US — they oppose unregulated global financial markets, neo-liberal austerity, consumerism, and FANG, all of which they reject as founded upon individualism over common good.

    The twenty-somethings seem to be finding a voice, even if at partially the other end of the spectrum. Sound familiar?

  13. #883
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    https://www.phillymag.com/news/2018/...massey-antifa/

    Marines Testify About the “Antifa Mob” They Say Attacked Them in Philly

    “I could have died that day,” one of the marines told the court on Thursday morning.
    Nearly one month after we told you that two U.S. Marines Corps reservists said they were attacked in Old City on November 17th near the controversial “We the People” rally, the two suspects and their accusers appeared in a Philadelphia courtroom on Thursday morning.

    The marines, Alejandro Godinez and Luis Torres, both testified in uniform about the incident, while three marine officers, including their commanding officer, stood in the gallery. The suspects, Thomas Massey and Tom Keenan, who have been linked to antifa on websites and social media, sat together with their individual lawyers and did not speak.

    The marines, who are not from the Philadelphia area, said that they had traveled to the city with other members of their helicopter unit, headquartered at Fort Dix, to attend a Marine event that night at a local hotel ballroom. They said that they had no knowledge of the nearby rally, which drew members of the alt-right as well as a large number of counter-protestors, Keenan and Massey reportedly among them.

    According to the marines’ testimony, they were touring historical landmarks near Front and Chestnut streets when suspect Thomas Keenan approached them. Godinez testified that Keenan asked them “Are you proud?,” to which Godinez remembers responding “We are Marines.” Torres said that he remembers Keenan asking “Are you Proud Boys?,” an allusion to one of the alt-right groups behind the rally, and one that Torres said he didn’t understand. “I didn’t know what Proud Boys meant,” he said.

    Whatever Keenan said, both marines testified that Keenan, Massey, and approximately ten other people — men and women, some masked and some unmasked — then began attacking them with mace, punches, and kicks, and calling them “nazis” and “white supremacists.”

    On the stand, Godinez said that he was “bewildered” by being called a white supremacist and immediately cried out, “I’m Mexican!” After that, as the attack continued, both men said that members of the group, including Keenan, repeatedly used ethnic slurs, including “spic” and “wetback,” against the marines. (There was no testimony that Massey used any such language).

    Godinez testified that he was maced at least six times, hit in the head, and kicked in the ribs, and he said that while he was being “stomped,” members of the group, which the judge and the district attorney’s office have both referred to as a “mob,” chanted “**** him up” over and over again.

    “The best way I can describe it is the sound of people chanting in a soccer stadium,” Godinez told the court, also adding that Keenan was “laughing, smiling, and having a good time, while I could have died that day.”

    Torres testified that Massey punched him “full force” repeatedly while he held his hands up above his face to protect himself, and the prosecutor used the opportunity to make it clear that while both Torres and Godinez are marines, the suspects are significantly larger in both height and weight than the two of them.

    In a statement previously released to Philly Mag, Godinez identified the group as an “antifa mob” and said “we were outnumbered … there were two Marines against 10 to 12 assailants.”

    On the stand, Godinez explained that he tried to call 911 once the group had fled but that he couldn’t operate his phone because of the mace. Torres called 911, and an ambulance transported both men to Jefferson Hospital, where Godinez was treated. He said that his sight is still affected by what happened that day — he was noticeably blinking throughout the court proceeding — and that he continues to have discomfort from some of his other injuries. He testified that he might require surgery. Torres did not seek medical treatment.

    At one point in the hearing, Keenan’s attorney referred to the incident as a “tussle.” Shortly thereafter, the judge told the lawyer, “This isn’t like kids at a playground.”

    After Godinez and Torres testified and the defense lawyers made brief arguments, the judge ruled that both men would be held for trial on aggravated assault and conspiracy charges — both felonies — as well as several misdemeanors. The judge also added a felony charge of ethnic intimidation against Keenan. Their next court date is December 27th.
    CNN said Antifa just wanted peace. that is a lie.
    Antifa are violent and nobody should support their actions.


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  14. #884
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    “The Trump administration did not rise, prima facie, like Venus on a half shell from the sea. Donald Trump is the result of a long process of political, cultural and social decay. He is a product of our failed democracy. The longer we perpetuate the fiction that we live in a functioning democracy, that Trump and the political mutations around him are somehow an aberrant deviation that can be vanquished in the next election, the more we will hurtle toward tyranny. The problem is not Trump. It is a political system, dominated by corporate power and the mandarins of the two major political parties, in which we don’t count. We will wrest back political control by dismantling the corporate state, and this means massive and sustained civil disobedience. … If we do not stand up, we will enter a new dark age.”

    Chris Hedges, TRUTHDIG

  15. #885
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    This might just it (the civil unrest thing, that is).

    “A rapidly growing number of counties in at least four states are declaring themselves Second Amendment sanctuaries, refusing to enforce gun-control laws that they consider to be infringements on the U.S. constitutional right to keep and bear arms.”

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1QL0ZC

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