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  1. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    I guess you and I have different interpretations of what constitutes “what he does.” His intentional choice to sign on to (and possibly help fund) the full-page ad that clearly expressed the common demands of a group of people is to me an action (a “what he does”) that is substantively different from, say, a tweet, which expresses (usually in the form of a lie) his individual thoughts, such as they are.

    Likewise, his actions as president (deregulation, et al) are also “what he does”, and they indicate his true beliefs, regardless of what kind of rubbish he says or tweets.
    My only point was you said you don't care what he thinks or says, then make a declaration about what he thinks. That's all. I think he's been essentially ineffectual so "what he does" doesn't seem to be having the effect on society as "what he says" on twitter every morning.

  2. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Has this been discussed before now?

    Maybe he is still trying to "Lead the world by example" by not having us pay so that China and India can do whatever the **** they want.

  3. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    My only point was you said you don't care what he thinks or says, then make a declaration about what he thinks. That's all. I think he's been essentially ineffectual so "what he does" doesn't seem to be having the effect on society as "what he says" on twitter every morning.
    Let me unpack this for you:

    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    I don’t give a ratsass what the man thinks or says. I judge him by what he does, and I can tell you unequivocally that he does not give one sweetshit about climate change.
    By his actions as president, Mr. Trump has demonstrated that he will not do anything to ameliorate climate change. He has, to the contrary, unequivocally demonstrated (again, by has actions as president) that he is doing things to exacerbate climate change.

    Perhaps in your book, then, his actions show he does give a sweetshit about climate change -- in effect, he cares about making it worse. Fine.

    But not in my book.

    And I sill do not give a ratsass as to what the man thinks or says -- only what he does.

    As for his actions seeming to have less effect as his tweets, well, all I can say is that may be true -- to idiots who think what he tweets is worthy of respect (Yep, that makes for a lot of idiots in this country).

  4. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Let me unpack this for you:



    By his actions as president, Mr. Trump has demonstrated that he will not do anything to ameliorate climate change. He has, to the contrary, unequivocally demonstrated (again, by has actions as president) that he is doing things to exacerbate climate change.

    Perhaps in your book, then, his actions show he does give a sweetshit about climate change -- in effect, he cares about making it worse. Fine.

    But not in my book.

    And I sill do not give a ratsass as to what the man thinks or says -- only what he does.

    As for his actions seeming to have less effect as his tweets, well, all I can say is that may be true -- to idiots who think what he tweets is worthy of respect (Yep, that makes for a lot of idiots in this country).
    You still talk about how you don't think he cares, and I'm saying I don't know what he's thinking. "cares" is a word used to describe what someone thinks.

    I never said he was good about the environment nor did I say he cares about it. All I said is how does one know whether he cares or not?

    I don't think most of the people effected by his tweets think they are "worthy of respect", I think our media (social and mainstream) are just over-run with a volume of BS around his BS. It's just an unhealthy obsession.

  5. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    You still talk about how you don't think he cares, and I'm saying I don't know what he's thinking. "cares" is a word used to describe what someone thinks.

    I never said he was good about the environment nor did I say he cares about it. All I said is how does one know whether he cares or not?
    Enough! This is absurd. I can say that I don’t care about this conversation any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I don't think most of the people effected by his tweets think they are "worthy of respect", I think our media (social and mainstream) are just over-run with a volume of BS around his BS. It's just an unhealthy obsession.
    You can blame the media all you want — and there is some merit in it to some degree — but it is the idiot consumers of the media who lap up his vomit. But that’s for another thread.

    To move this forward, let’s just say that Mr. Trump and the Trump Administration have implemented policies that have been detrimental to the health of the environment. I have listed those many times on this thread.

  6. #411
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    Saw a tech review on solar panels in Missouri. An optimal roof in angle and alighnment with the travel of the sun completely covered in panels makes enough power for a typical 4 star efficient 4 person home on a daily basis for 60 days a year in April, May, June, And July. In August it averages out to about 75% of demand. November and December it's 15% of demand from solar. Solar meets 50% of need for less than 50% of the year. There are few areas of Missouri with consistent wind to offset with wind power.

    I was surprised the swing was so dramatic, and that the number of days with enough energy from modern fairly optimized panels fell so short.

    They said they could have put the panels on stands that follow the sun, but apparently that doesn't gain very much any more with the modern panels, around 1% gain but doubles the cost and maintenance.

    I'm going to go do some reading on super conductors. I wonder if someone is working on transmitting solar power generated electricity from Nevada to Colorado or something, because solar and wind are more location and time restricted than I thought.

    If we covered every square inch of the US with solar collection we'd have WAY more than enough energy, but it would be in the wrong place and the wrong time.

  7. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    You still talk about how you don't think he cares, and I'm saying I don't know what he's thinking. "cares" is a word used to describe what someone thinks.

    I never said he was good about the environment nor did I say he cares about it. All I said is how does one know whether he cares or not?

    I don't think most of the people effected by his tweets think they are "worthy of respect", I think our media (social and mainstream) are just over-run with a volume of BS around his BS. It's just an unhealthy obsession.
    No one can ever truly know what one thinks in their hearts, but actions give us a better idea. What is more likely? That someone who repeatedly says Climate Change is a lie and a hoax and who enacts legislation and EO's that exacerbate it doesn't care about Climate Change or that they do?

  8. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Saw a tech review on solar panels in Missouri. An optimal roof in angle and alighnment with the travel of the sun completely covered in panels makes enough power for a typical 4 star efficient 4 person home on a daily basis for 60 days a year in April, May, June, And July. In August it averages out to about 75% of demand. November and December it's 15% of demand from solar. Solar meets 50% of need for less than 50% of the year. There are few areas of Missouri with consistent wind to offset with wind power.

    I was surprised the swing was so dramatic, and that the number of days with enough energy from modern fairly optimized panels fell so short.

    They said they could have put the panels on stands that follow the sun, but apparently that doesn't gain very much any more with the modern panels, around 1% gain but doubles the cost and maintenance.

    I'm going to go do some reading on super conductors. I wonder if someone is working on transmitting solar power generated electricity from Nevada to Colorado or something, because solar and wind are more location and time restricted than I thought.

    If we covered every square inch of the US with solar collection we'd have WAY more than enough energy, but it would be in the wrong place and the wrong time.
    I am not altogether surprised, but the information is somewhat sketchy (not necessarily incorrect). Like what are the energy requirements of a typical so-called 4 star 4 person home (are they heating, for example, with electricity)? They should have been able to quantify that more precisely. Where in Missouri? What is the size of an optimal roof?

    No doubt the technology needs to improve, which is what we should be fully subsidizing.

  9. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    No one can ever truly know what one thinks in their hearts
    I agree

  10. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    I am not altogether surprised, but the information is somewhat sketchy (not necessarily incorrect). Like what are the energy requirements of a typical so-called 4 star 4 person home (are they heating, for example, with electricity)? They should have been able to quantify that more precisely. Where in Missouri? What is the size of an optimal roof?

    No doubt the technology needs to improve, which is what we should be fully subsidizing.
    TV really sucks at specifics.

    I was surprised we were not closer to a real 50% solution with solar.

    As for subsidies ... the PUCs can kick the utility's ***** into having a reasonable payback rate on power put back on the grid. At present unused power put back on the grid pays a paltry amount in most places, in some cases less than 1 cent on the dollar is credited, other places have a much better credit rate, but they put caps on how much power they will pay you for. Like in CA you get a % per kWh based on the rate you pay, but it varies all over the place, and some places in the northeast will pay you a much higher percentage of your rate per kWh but cap how many kWhs you can put back into the grid and get credit for.

    10 state PUCs don't allow ANY credit for power put back onto the grid.

    All that makes the pay back on solar panels 20-30 years long which significantly slows adoption by homeowners.

    The utility should get a flat fee for infrastructure maintenance, and everything above that should be just total kWh used off the grid, not borrowed power that is put back later.
    Last edited by Scoots; 12-10-2019 at 05:22 PM.

  11. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I agree
    So you think it's just as likely that someone who has done what Trump has said and done regarding the environment cares about it as someone who has done the opposite?

    By this logic, one could claim they don't know whether David Duke and MLK have the same opinion on black people or not because we can never truly know what is in their heart of hearts.

    I get your absolutism, but we can be more certain of one outcome than the other. (also BTW, you bizarre defense of Trump's feelings for the environment here is why you get the constant perception you are more conservative than liberal. Like, do you honestly believe Trump cares about the environment? Do you honestly have no idea if he does or doesn't? Despite all he's said and done, you have no possible clue)?

  12. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    So you think it's just as likely that someone who has done what Trump has said and done regarding the environment cares about it as someone who has done the opposite?

    By this logic, one could claim they don't know whether David Duke and MLK have the same opinion on black people or not because we can never truly know what is in their heart of hearts.

    I get your absolutism, but we can be more certain of one outcome than the other. (also BTW, you bizarre defense of Trump's feelings for the environment here is why you get the constant perception you are more conservative than liberal. Like, do you honestly believe Trump cares about the environment? Do you honestly have no idea if he does or doesn't? Despite all he's said and done, you have no possible clue)?
    I haven't defended Trump's anything. That's in your head.

  13. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I haven't defended Trump's anything. That's in your head.
    Then why are you incapable of even saying Trump probably doesn't care about the environment given what he has said and done? It's an odd hill to die on to claim you have absolutely no clue into how he feels about the environment given his words and actions.

  14. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Then why are you incapable of even saying Trump probably doesn't care about the environment given what he has said and done? It's an odd hill to die on to claim you have absolutely no clue into how he feels about the environment given his words and actions.
    I didn't say I have "absolutely no clue", I said I don't know.

  15. #420
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    Wrong thread.

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