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  1. #46
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    The Warriors need to keep the crew together while drafting and developing players in their model to replace them. I think they all get another contract and any moves wait a couple more years at least.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
    Yeah we clearly just view Draymond very differently. I don't view him like Gobert, in this example. Whenever I have watched the Warriors play when he's been out I've never felt the vacuum being as severe as Gobert this season. And yes, of course they would be fine overall and either way haha. They just played in a game 7 though, and Harden wasn't even good that series, so we don't need to pretend that they're some unbeatable force even as is.

    To me Klay is the Harden to Draymond's Ibaka, if you will. Durant and WB were perfectly fine without Harden, but they became an extremely top heavy team when it came to scoring and had to rely on people like Dion Waiters for scoring assistance. The wear and tear and fatigue of doing all of that work leads to bad things at the end of the postseason, as we saw in 2016. Losing Ibaka would have hurt as well, but scoring is a premium in the NBA for a reason.

    It's a hypothetical scenario so who knows if we'll ever get the answer. It certainly sounds like all parties involved are focused on keeping it from happening though.
    Well like I said we could go for days on examples but imo that's far far more realistic than Prince. Gobert/Green impact numbers wise, defensive anchor wise, and All NBA/All star/DPOY wise etc. are much closer together. Same thing with Ibaka. We can just keep coming up with random seperate examples but I feel like at least I was using someone with more similarities in his impact/numbers/awards/talent etc.

    Like I mentioned above Ibaka never was quite as impactful or getting those same accolades. Same with Harden/Klay. Statistically on those Thunder teams you could see that Harden was the more impactful player etc in the numbers. You can see that same thing for GREEN on GS, not Klay. That's part of the key to this whole conversation is just how meh some of those impact stats for Klay have become while Green hasn't taken a hit in the same way. Since KD it has made Klay redundant/role player type far more than before and it shows in said impact #'s. Curry as the engine to the offense and Green being a much better playmaker than Ibaka and overall brings a bit more on that side too.

    Did I mention OKC was 2nd in offensive rating the year before KD ditched? Haha without GS already in the league that team was still the best offenses in the league even with Ibaka a shell of himself and dion waiters starting. Westy+KD was enough to lead that offense and Curry/Green is definitely better than Westy/Ibaka on that end compared to the 2nd best offense in the NBA (behind only themselves haha).

    Like I have been saying with this group and Curry/KD around they would be just fine on the offensive end.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueFan420 View Post
    The issue with that analogy is the warriors have an effective offensive system built around Curry. That won't just go away with Klay gone. You could plug a 3 & D guy and the system keeps going smoothly. Just a little less dangerous as Klay is more than JUST a 3 & D.

    You take Green and it's much harder to go small. Bell looks legit but he's still a rookie and he can't space out to 3. He can switch onto guards but not nearly as effectively. And largest thing your missing if you let Green go has nothing to do with BBall. He's their vocal leader, he's their coach on the court, he's the heart that gets them going and doesn't let them settle for their talent. That can't be replaced.
    Well of course, they're not going away as long as they have Durant and Curry no matter what. I think Curry's health is also something to consider though. A normal 3 & D guy could mostly do the job in that full lineup, but you're losing rotation strength not having a three headed machine rotating throughout the game and in the case of a Curry injury you're in deep sh/t lol.

    His leadership value is a very good point. I didn't mean to sound so harsh on Draymond, probably sounded like I think he sucks haha. I think it would be a considerable blow either way. I'm also very high on Jordan Bell and wanted my Knicks to draft him, and he did not disappoint, so that's in my mind as well.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Well like I said we could go for days on examples but imo that's far far more realistic than Prince. Gobert/Green impact numbers wise, defensive anchor wise, and All NBA/All star/DPOY wise etc. are much closer together. Same thing with Ibaka. We can just keep coming up with random seperate examples but I feel like at least I was using someone with more similarities in his impact/numbers/awards/talent etc.

    Like I mentioned above Ibaka never was quite as impactful or getting those same accolades. Same with Harden/Klay. Statistically on those Thunder teams you could see that Harden was the more impactful player etc in the numbers. You can see that same thing for GREEN on GS, not Klay. That's part of the key to this whole conversation is just how meh some of those impact stats for Klay have become while Green hasn't taken a hit in the same way. Since KD it has made Klay redundant/role player type far more than before and it shows in said impact #'s. Curry as the engine to the offense and Green being a much better playmaker than Ibaka and overall brings a bit more on that side too.

    Did I mention OKC was 2nd in offensive rating the year before KD ditched? Haha without GS already in the league that team was still the best offenses in the league even with Ibaka a shell of himself and dion waiters starting. Westy+KD was enough to lead that offense and Curry/Green is definitely better than Westy/Ibaka on that end compared to the 2nd best offense in the NBA (behind only themselves haha).

    Like I have been saying with this group and Curry/KD around they would be just fine on the offensive end.
    Aye, I wasn't making a 1:1 comparison. Draymond is obviously way better than Prince on defense in any scenario. I do think he relies heavily on their foundation to do what he does though due to his size. I think that's the main difference between him and Gobert, in this sense. I don't think Draymond would be quite Draymond if they switched places, but I think Gobert would be even better.

    Yes, again not a 1:1 comparison. Klay and Green are obviously much closer in ability than Harden and Ibaka were, but their roles are largely the same. I don't think those advanced stat rate numbers can evaluate Klay's impact for them properly, and those numbers for anyone are largely circumstantial beyond just their own ability.

    In the regular season OKC was fine yes, but the playoffs are a different animal and two man offensive teams usually bite the bullet at some point in the western conference gauntlet. We obviously know that OKC did.

    They would be just fine on either end either way lol, it's just a matter of which you think is better/would impact them more. We just obviously view each player differently.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
    Aye, I wasn't making a 1:1 comparison. Draymond is obviously way better than Prince on defense in any scenario. I do think he relies heavily on their foundation to do what he does though due to his size. I think that's the main difference between him and Gobert, in this sense. I don't think Draymond would be quite Draymond if they switched places, but I think Gobert would be even better.

    Yes, again not a 1:1 comparison. Klay and Green are obviously much closer in ability than Harden and Ibaka were, but their roles are largely the same. I don't think those advanced stat rate numbers can evaluate Klay's impact for them properly, and those numbers for anyone are largely circumstantial beyond just their own ability.

    In the regular season OKC was fine yes, but the playoffs are a different animal and two man offensive teams usually bite the bullet at some point in the western conference gauntlet. We obviously know that OKC did.

    They would be just fine on either end either way lol, it's just a matter of which you think is better/would impact them more. We just obviously view each player differently.
    I mean overall I don't disagree too much but Dray is better for their offense with his skill set. Gobert could add some on D/size but Green brings some offensively he couldn't to counter. The whole small ball/spacing out etc. is because of Green and his versatility so that isn't a big knock at all imo that he is different.

    The point is even your comparison here has the numbers showing Harden/Green as more impactful. That's another part of what makes the comparison not work is that while you can argue similar roles for these guys the impact Klay/Green have had has been really different. I agree the stats don't measure everything he is doing or capable of but again another major factor for him is being redundant due to KD. He is no longer the top scorer off Curry he is after KD and he needs to space for Curry/KD/Green to be effective etc. like a role player far more often now.

    In the playoffs the team that beat them was with Curry as the engine and Green as the defensive anchor with Klay as a good 2nd option haha. If KD simply plays well to close out the final 3 games he could easily have won a title that year in OKC due to a great offense. They had a 108.8 ORTG against the Warriors just slightly above them actually despite losing the series (again it was that close KD nor Westy stepped up though that's all). Cleveland had a 109 ortg so they won a title with very similar production and again this is with Westy/KD "choking in a sense.

    The point is they would actually have a hole to cover on defense and might not be ok. They have no anchor on defense then. Offense without Klay they have 2 MVP's still so it's easy but this is a major whole in an area they aren't redundant (no other DPOY big man). I have simply been responding to your point of it being tough for them to cover up like 7 points from Klay etc. on that end when the reality is they could easily have the best offense in the league still with Curry/KD/Dray. The other side of the ball that hasn't really been covered is the key thing that makes Green not redundant and Klay doesn't have any quality/impact like that on O where Curry/KD can't cover.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kobe4thewinbang View Post
    Push comes to shove, keep Draymond over Klay. Draymond is a poor man's LeBron.
    I could see Draymond being chill with an extension, but not Klay. Time will tell.
    Poor mans LeBron? LOL More like a poor mans Rodman on rebounding and defense but with a better outside shot than Rodman

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by zookman65 View Post
    Poor mans LeBron? LOL More like a poor mans Rodman on rebounding and defense but with a better outside shot than Rodman
    Draymond is a much more versatile defender then Rodman. He the QB on defense, always talking and communicating with his teammmates. Heís also an excellent help defender and can guard 1-5. Thatís what Lebron used to do 5 years ago, before conserving energy.

    What sets draymond apart from a lot of big men is his floor vision and being able to handle the ball like a guard.

  8. #53
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    The warriors will have this Superteam for 2 more years. I donít expect the warriors to trade him at all when draymond declines the extensions. Expect Draymond to enter free agency. He will find his true value, ask the warriors to match.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKLYNpigeon View Post
    Draymond is a much more versatile defender then Rodman. He the QB on defense, always talking and communicating with his teammmates. Heís also an excellent help defender and can guard 1-5. Thatís what Lebron used to do 5 years ago, before conserving energy.

    What sets draymond apart from a lot of big men is his floor vision and being able to handle the ball like a guard.
    I don't know about much more versatile. Rodman was one of the best perimeter defenders when he was younger. One of the top interior defenders as he aged. Strong as **** for his size. Uncanny rebounding instincts. This guy was one of the most instinctive players ever both on d and on the glass. I think his feel and iq would make him a good help defender if needed. He wasn't a shot blocker, as Draymond isn't as well, but the guy could still man the paint and hold his own.

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