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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    This is far more prevalent on the Democrat side.

    Far miore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Incorrect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Well, that certainly convinces me.
    When in Rome....

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_White View Post
    Maryland has one Republican member of the House.

    Maryland is one state gerrymandered by Democrats. Republicans have gerrymandered Ohio, NC, Wisconsin, Michigan, and all of the south into oblivion. You can't just ignore all that and then take one state Democrats gerrymandered and wail "both sides!".
    Yup. The mountain I'm always willing to die on: we gotta stop pretending like gerrymandering is a true "both sides" issue. Perhaps both sides try to do it, but one side is way, way, way better at it. And benefits way, way, way more from it. Dems should fight back, harder. They've scored some wins in the courts but we've seen how hard Republicans are even fighting those. They're going real low. **** going high, go low to undercut them

    In terms of representation arguments you'll see Conservatives "both sides" gerrymandering. But there's good reason why they aren't ever quick to "both sides" voters rights. Because they know what's really going on there...



    Anyways, related to my initial post, I read this morning that splitting California into three states - basically LA, SoCo and NorCo states - will be on the ballot in November. Lots of good arguments for and against it. Didn't really it was actually such a coherent movement.
    this my sig

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Yup. The mountain I'm always willing to die on: we gotta stop pretending like gerrymandering is a true "both sides" issue. Perhaps both sides try to do it, but one side is way, way, way better at it. And benefits way, way, way more from it. Dems should fight back, harder. They've scored some wins in the courts but we've seen how hard Republicans are even fighting those. They're going real low. **** going high, go low to undercut them

    In terms of representation arguments you'll see Conservatives "both sides" gerrymandering. But there's good reason why they aren't ever quick to "both sides" voters rights. Because they know what's really going on there...



    Anyways, related to my initial post, I read this morning that splitting California into three states - basically LA, SoCo and NorCo states - will be on the ballot in November. Lots of good arguments for and against it. Didn't really it was actually such a coherent movement.
    It's nonsensical and has zero chance of passing.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_White View Post
    It's nonsensical and has zero chance of passing.
    I don't think it's completely nonsensical at all, but I also don't think it's going to pass. I think there are plenty of good arguments for it, but in the end, it's a drastic idea -- the likes of which hasn't happened in an incredibly long time -- and would cost a ton of money up front.

    I'd imagine the vast, vast, vast majority of people don't care at all. Common-sensically the measure gets crushed.
    Last edited by ManRam; 06-13-2018 at 02:26 PM.
    this my sig

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    Liberals haven't been winning since they went off the deep end and raging liberals think the answer is going even farther.

    I hate to break it to some of you but there are a lot of reasonable and open minded people in this country that used to vote democrat but now feel like the party doesn't represent them.
    That has way more to do with Democrats embracing corporations and banks and turning their backs on the working class than it does with moving left. Dems have moved center overall and it has killed any hope for an identity. Too Wishy washy


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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    Because Liberals believe in failed ideologies. That's why they will lose. They will always lose. They may win some battles, but they will always lose the war.
    I mean seriously.....How pathetic of a party do you have to be where your side controls media, controls social media, controls hollywood/entertainment, controls academia and completely tries to shut down any opposing viewpoints. AND STILL LOSES... to Donald Trump. If that doesn't tell you that something is wrong with your side, then your head is so far up your *** it may never come out.
    Itís because the right is blindly tribal and unapologetically hypocritical in their messaging so they can easily move from Romney to Trump no matter how different they are.

    Dems are self deprecating and openly split between establishment and progressive. Berniecrats either didnít vote or moved to Trump as an outsider. Jeb and Rubio supporters had no problem pivoting to Trump.


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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    Pelosi and Schumer need to go before I ever consider voting Democrat


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    As a progressive liberal, ditto on this.


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  8. #53
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    It just blows my mind that people on the right think Democratic leadership represent anything other than absolute centrism. They'd be right-wingers in almost every single other Democratic country in the world. Hell, the far-right in many of those countries are xenophobic ****s too, but they still embrace all sorts of leftist causes (like ****ing welfare states). It's insane how conservative we are as a country and how in denial every one is about it.

    Honestly, you're either just willfully ignorant or your brain has been turned to rot by whatever media it is you consume if you think freaking Chuck Schumer is some sort of lefty socialist. The difference between like Bob Corker and Chuck Schumer ain't much!

    What reality are these people observing? "Gone of the deep end"? My god. I wish! Instead they've just gone right to the middle. Or to the right, even.

    Obama torpedoed his own healthcare bill because he preferred the Republican model over single payer.

    Obama's foreign policy was largely indistinguishable from the prominent Republican beliefs. That's why they squabbled so much over largely inconsequential stuff. By and large he was a conservative foreign policy-wise.

    His immigration beliefs are moderate-to-conservative.

    Drug reform? Criminal justice? Tax reform? Where the hell has the party gone "off the deep end"?

    There's gay marriage? What else?

    Democratic leadership is largely indistinguishable from the center-right Republicans. And most of their differences are just all talk. Because most Dems will never walk the progressive walk.
    this my sig

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    Liberals haven't been winning since they went off the deep end and raging liberals think the answer is going even farther.
    ďWent off the deep endĒ is totally meaningless. What are you actually trying to say?

    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    Because Liberals believe in failed ideologies. That's why they will lose. They will always lose. They may win some battles, but they will always lose the war.
    And these failed ideologies are what exactly?

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Itís because the right is blindly tribal and unapologetically hypocritical in their messaging so they can easily move from Romney to Trump no matter how different they are.

    Dems are self deprecating and openly split between establishment and progressive. Berniecrats either didnít vote or moved to Trump as an outsider. Jeb and Rubio supporters had no problem pivoting to Trump.


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    Any party supports its nominee. They move from Romney to Trump. Before that they moved from McCani to Romney. Primary loses pretty much always support whoever the nominee is.

    What so unusual about this???

    Democrats are split??? They only ran 2 people. Not much of a split there.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    I don't think it's completely nonsensical at all, but I also don't think it's going to pass. I think there are plenty of good arguments for it, but in the end, it's a drastic idea -- the likes of which hasn't happened in an incredibly long time -- and would cost a ton of money up front.

    I'd imagine the vast, vast, vast majority of people don't care at all. Common-sensically the measure gets crushed.
    Hey Iíve got an idea. Letís do this with every state. Make all the liberal areas their own state and all the conservative areas their own state, that way everyone can live in their own little bubble. Sounds great!

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Itís because the right is blindly tribal and unapologetically hypocritical in their messaging so they can easily move from Romney to Trump no matter how different they are.

    Dems are self deprecating and openly split between establishment and progressive. Berniecrats either didnít vote or moved to Trump as an outsider. Jeb and Rubio supporters had no problem pivoting to Trump.


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    Berniecrats encompasses a lot of people. I supported Bernie but still voted for Clinton. Maybe if I lived in a solid D state I wouldnít have done that but most Bernie supporters went to Clinton. They just didnít get as much media attention obviously.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_White View Post
    Hey Iíve got an idea. Letís do this with every state. Make all the liberal areas their own state and all the conservative areas their own state, that way everyone can live in their own little bubble. Sounds great!
    How about those of us who are progressive preservationists?

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    ďWent off the deep endĒ is totally meaningless. What are you actually trying to say?



    And these failed ideologies are what exactly?
    Identity politics. It's for crazy people.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    ďWent off the deep endĒ is totally meaningless. What are you actually trying to say?
    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    Identity politics..
    OK. Thanks.

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