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View Poll Results: Which team would win in a 7 game series?

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  • Seaside Seagulls

    7 50.00%
  • Team RR

    6 42.86%
  • GMs vote here

    1 7.14%
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  1. #1
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    NBA All-Time Redraft Playoffs 1st Round (Seaside Seagulls v Team RR)

    Every year Members of PSD participate in a draft of all players all-time in an attempt to make the best team possible and win in a playoff determined by fellow members of PSD.

    This years rules included being able to only start 2 players from the 00's and 1 from the 70's and earlier.

    Look over the two teams and vote on which team you think would win in a 7 game series. The top team has home-court advantage for this series.

    Seaside Seagulls - Homecourt Advantage

    PG: Steph Curry 38 | Norm Van Lier 10
    SG: Clyde Drexler 38 | Steve Smith 10
    SF: Billy Cunningham 24 | Mark Aguirre 24
    PF: Karl Malone 38 | Antawn Jamison 10
    C: Tyson Chandler 36 | LaMarcus Aldridge 12

    v

    PG: Oscar Robertson - Mike Conley
    SG: Penny Hardaway - Hersey Hawkins
    SF: Tracy McGrady - Khris Middleton
    PF: Horace Grant - Andrei Kirilenko
    C: Dwight Howard - Joakim Noah

  2. #2
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    not gonna lie, Team RR has my heart to win it all. as one of the few Orlando Magic fans on the board. 4 former Orlando Magic players in their starting line up. thats going to be a tough team to beat. Length, athletiscm, defense, 2 #1 scorers, 2 lock down defenders in the paint. Love team RR


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  3. #3
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    Tyson held Dwight to 15.5 PPG regular season (13.6 PPG playoffs)

    Karl Malone scored 25.4 PPG on 49% FG regular season (30.6 PPG 59% playoffs) vs Horace Grant (7.5 PPG regular season, 4.8 PPG playoffs).

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Tyson held Dwight to 15.5 PPG regular season (13.6 PPG playoffs)

    Karl Malone scored 25.4 PPG on 49% FG regular season (30.6 PPG 59% playoffs) vs Horace Grant (7.5 PPG regular season, 4.8 PPG playoffs).
    yea but Horrace or Dwight arent scorers or #1/#2 options. They are at there best when they are just defending and in Dwights case rebounding (off the top of my head dont remember how good/bad Horrace was on the boards)

    They are running their offense through their 3 guards who all are unselfish and they are going to open up the pick and pop for Horrace as well as the alley oops to Dwight

    you dont need offense from either, just defense and rebounding

    and I love the length of O/Penny/Tmac on the perimeter, its going to be a tough team to beat


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivera View Post
    yea but Horrace or Dwight arent scorers or #1/#2 options. They are at there best when they are just defending and in Dwights case rebounding (off the top of my head dont remember how good/bad Horrace was on the boards)

    They are running their offense through their 3 guards who all are unselfish and they are going to open up the pick and pop for Horace as well as the alley oops to Dwight

    you dont need offense from either, just defense and rebounding

    and I love the length of O/Penny/Tmac on the perimeter, its going to be a tough team to beat
    That's good, because they're going to get 0 offense from them.

    Yes, he has 3 guys who can score well (Big O, Penny and T-Mac); so do I. So does almost everybody in this game. Saying "It's ok if 3/5 of my starters provide zero offense" is not good in a game where almost every player can provide offense.

    I think Curry/Malone/Clyde could outscore T-Mac/Big O/Penny and that still leaves me with multiple other scoring options (Cunningham, Aguirre, LMA, etc.). If his big 3 aren't providing offense, who does he turn to?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Tyson held Dwight to 15.5 PPG regular season (13.6 PPG playoffs)

    Karl Malone scored 25.4 PPG on 49% FG regular season (30.6 PPG 59% playoffs) vs Horace Grant (7.5 PPG regular season, 4.8 PPG playoffs).
    You're using career numbers in head-to-head as opposed to peak numbers. In Dwight's peak, he scored 19.5 points per game, grabbing 14.7 rebounds per game. Tyson Chandler maintained a consistent peak longer than Dwight did, so we can safely assume Chandler's head-to-head numbers during Dwight's peak would be identical as well (meaning, Chandler wasn't really better or worse in 08-09, 09-10, 10-11 than whichever years you plan to use his peak). I could even make a case they share the same peak which would give a better illustration of how Tyson Chandler got obliterated by Dwight Howard.

    So for the sake of anecdotally using a different 3-year peak, let's just use the same numbers Tyson Chandler got when he faced Dwight Howard... Chandler averaged a whopping 6.7 ppg and 4.3 rpg.

    2008-2009 season to 2010-2011 season

    Dwight Howard: 19.5 ppg (TS% 57.5), 14.7 rpg, 1.2 stl, 1.8 blk
    Tyson Chandler: 6.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.3 stl, 0.7 blk, 4.5 fouls
    What the eye test in real life and these numbers confirm is that Dwight Howard was too big and strong to be contained by Tyson Chandler. Even using Valade's career (as oppose to peak numbers), Howard grabs 12.2 rpg to Chandler's 7.6 rpg. It's for exactly this reason Tyson Chandler either fouled out or was really close to fouling out whenever he went up against Howard. Averaging 4.5 fouls per game in their matchup when Chandler only plays 25-27 minutes a game as it is would be crippling for Valade, seeing as Lamarcus Aldridge is his backup center. Aldridge is a guy who explicitly stated he hates playing center and guarding the other bigs... now he's forced to have to bang with someone a lot bigger than he is accustom to.

    As for Karl Malone, I don't just have Horace Grant to throw at him defensively. Along with Horace and his 4x All Defensive Teams, I would definitely throw Dwight Howard (3x DPOY) and Joakim Noah (DPOY) at him. Basically, Karl Malone won't ever get a break on offense. Malone will definitely get his points as he's arguably a top 5 power-foward, but he's going to have to work for it going against the defensive juggernauts listed.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

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  8. #8
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    The perimeter defense for SSS is pretty bad to try and stop a offense trio of McGrady/BigO/Penny, I think other way around they can maintain defensively vs Curry/Drexler/Cunningham? I just can't see Drexler responding to the challenge of trying to stop a offensive trio of the Big O, Magic Show. Curry will go off? Against Big O? man, I would ****ing love it lol, some of these matchups just make me smile because what if you know? Malone vs Howard would be epic fun as the duo would bang down low often with a counter punch mate. This in real life would be a fun ****ing series.
    Last edited by GREATNESS ONE; 06-08-2018 at 12:26 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    That's good, because they're going to get 0 offense from them.

    Yes, he has 3 guys who can score well (Big O, Penny and T-Mac); so do I. So does almost everybody in this game. Saying "It's ok if 3/5 of my starters provide zero offense" is not good in a game where almost every player can provide offense.

    I think Curry/Malone/Clyde could outscore T-Mac/Big O/Penny and that still leaves me with multiple other scoring options (Cunningham, Aguirre, LMA, etc.). If his big 3 aren't providing offense, who does he turn to?
    If your big 3 aren't providing offense, who do you turn to? Outside my big 3 scoring options, Dwight Howard posterized Tyson Chandler (19.5 ppg), Hersey Hawkins (20.4 ppg), Khris Middleton (18.5 ppg), Mike Conley (17.3 ppg), Andrei Kirilenko (15.8 ppg), and Horace Grant (14.1 ppg).

    It's a bit of a moot point I'm making though... Seeing as Stephen Curry will absolutely get torched defending a bigger Oscar Robertson. And while Drexler is an All Time great shooting-guard, he wasn't a defensive juggernaut (he was about average). What I really find to be a devastating matchup for Team Valade is Billy Cunningham against Tracy McGrady. Cunningham was a 6'6 power-foward/small-foward who wasn't known to be a defensive stopper. Being shorter and slower will hinder their team's defense... and this isn't even mentioning Cunningham requiring 20+ shots to score 24 points in his 3 year peak (yikes).

    So on Valade's starting lineup, he has a PF/SF who jacked up 20+ shots to get 24 points and Tyson Chandler who averaged 6.7 ppg against Dwight Howard. Going by shot attempts, Billy Cunningham is tied with Clyde Drexler as his number 1 option...
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  10. #10
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    I'm reformatting my computer but I'll post a write-up asap. I just want to mention that I have 2 DPOY players as well as a 4x All Defensive Team player to throw at his best (or 2nd best) player in Karl Malone. Big O, Penny, and TMac were all great defenders in their prime who would slow and make life a little harder for Curry and Drexler. When I sub in players from the bench, the defense and shooting gets even deadlier. Conley was considered the 2nd best defensive PG (behind CP3) during his peak, AK47 was a multiple time All Defensive Team player as well who was an excellent shot blocker. Khris Middleton is also no slouch on defense. And of course there is Hersey Hawkins... you know... the guy the Seahawks put on Michael Jordan instead of Gary Payton in a playoff game because he was shown he was capable of giving him fits.

    I don't even really want to do a write up about how to limit Billy Cunningham's offense... I want to entice him to jack up shots like he did in real life and be Valade's true #1 scoring option.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  11. #11
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    I would argue that the seagulls have the best three players in this match up...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    You're using career numbers in head-to-head as opposed to peak numbers. In Dwight's peak, he scored 19.5 points per game, grabbing 14.7 rebounds per game. Tyson Chandler maintained a consistent peak longer than Dwight did, so we can safely assume Chandler's head-to-head numbers during Dwight's peak would be identical as well (meaning, Chandler wasn't really better or worse in 08-09, 09-10, 10-11 than whichever years you plan to use his peak). I could even make a case they share the same peak which would give a better illustration of how Tyson Chandler got obliterated by Dwight Howard.

    So for the sake of anecdotally using a different 3-year peak, let's just use the same numbers Tyson Chandler got when he faced Dwight Howard... Chandler averaged a whopping 6.7 ppg and 4.3 rpg.

    What the eye test in real life and these numbers confirm is that Dwight Howard was too big and strong to be contained by Tyson Chandler. Even using Valade's career (as oppose to peak numbers), Howard grabs 12.2 rpg to Chandler's 7.6 rpg. It's for exactly this reason Tyson Chandler either fouled out or was really close to fouling out whenever he went up against Howard. Averaging 4.5 fouls per game in their matchup when Chandler only plays 25-27 minutes a game as it is would be crippling for Valade, seeing as Lamarcus Aldridge is his backup center. Aldridge is a guy who explicitly stated he hates playing center and guarding the other bigs... now he's forced to have to bang with someone a lot bigger than he is accustom to.

    As for Karl Malone, I don't just have Horace Grant to throw at him defensively. Along with Horace and his 4x All Defensive Teams, I would definitely throw Dwight Howard (3x DPOY) and Joakim Noah (DPOY) at him. Basically, Karl Malone won't ever get a break on offense. Malone will definitely get his points as he's arguably a top 5 power-foward, but he's going to have to work for it going against the defensive juggernauts listed.
    The reason you want to use 09-11 is because it was only 5 games and thus made his few good performances look even better. If you simply add one year to each end (which was definitely still Dwight's peak) and go from 08-12 you get 16.2 PPG and 12.6 RPG.

    As for having to resort to LMA on Dwight, I'd actually love that. Dwight being pulled out to defend LMA's midrange game? Now he's away from the basket, perfect for me. The Rockets put Dwight on LMA in their first round matchup in 2014 and LMA scored 30 PPG in the series.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    If your big 3 aren't providing offense, who do you turn to? Outside my big 3 scoring options, Dwight Howard posterized Tyson Chandler (19.5 ppg), Hersey Hawkins (20.4 ppg), Khris Middleton (18.5 ppg), Mike Conley (17.3 ppg), Andrei Kirilenko (15.8 ppg), and Horace Grant (14.1 ppg).

    It's a bit of a moot point I'm making though... Seeing as Stephen Curry will absolutely get torched defending a bigger Oscar Robertson. And while Drexler is an All Time great shooting-guard, he wasn't a defensive juggernaut (he was about average). What I really find to be a devastating matchup for Team Valade is Billy Cunningham against Tracy McGrady. Cunningham was a 6'6 power-foward/small-foward who wasn't known to be a defensive stopper. Being shorter and slower will hinder their team's defense... and this isn't even mentioning Cunningham requiring 20+ shots to score 24 points in his 3 year peak (yikes).

    So on Valade's starting lineup, he has a PF/SF who jacked up 20+ shots to get 24 points and Tyson Chandler who averaged 6.7 ppg against Dwight Howard. Going by shot attempts, Billy Cunningham is tied with Clyde Drexler as his number 1 option...
    Far more than you:

    Mark Aguirre 26.0 PPG > Hersey Hawkins 20.4 PPG
    Billy Cunningham 24.1 > Khris Middleton 18.5 PPG
    LaMarucs Aldridge 22.5 PPG > Mike Conley 17.3 PPG
    Antawn Jamison 22.3 PPG > Dwight Howard 16.2 PPG
    Steve Smith 19.8 PPG > Andrei Kirilenko 15.8 PPG
    Horace Grant 14.1 PPG

    Literally every single one of my guys when matched up by scoring against yours scores more than yours. So my team has far more offense.

    And for all the crap about my perimeter D, yours is no better. Big O, T-Mac and Penny were never standout defenders.

    And as for Cunningham's scoring, he already showed he can be a complimentary piece on a championship team when he was on the 76ers, where he shot significantly less than 24 shots a game. So your main argument against my offense is that my 4th/5th scoring option is inefficient.

    OK, but your 1st scoring option is inefficient. Tracy McGrady's career TS% is .519. He only has 1 season in his entire career over .535 TS%. He is super inefficient, and he's your #1 scorer.

    So you have T-Mac scoring 30 PPG on a .520 TS% vs Curry scoring 30 PPG on a .620 TS%. Yeah, I think my team's offense is going to be drastically better than his. Not to mention Curry is perhaps the best shooting weapon in the Pick and Roll in history and Karl Malone is the best Pick and Roll Big in history, there's simply no way he's going to be able to guard it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum187 View Post
    I'm reformatting my computer but I'll post a write-up asap. I just want to mention that I have 2 DPOY players as well as a 4x All Defensive Team player to throw at his best (or 2nd best) player in Karl Malone. Big O, Penny, and TMac were all great defenders in their prime who would slow and make life a little harder for Curry and Drexler. When I sub in players from the bench, the defense and shooting gets even deadlier. Conley was considered the 2nd best defensive PG (behind CP3) during his peak, AK47 was a multiple time All Defensive Team player as well who was an excellent shot blocker. Khris Middleton is also no slouch on defense. And of course there is Hersey Hawkins... you know... the guy the Seahawks put on Michael Jordan instead of Gary Payton in a playoff game because he was shown he was capable of giving him fits.

    I don't even really want to do a write up about how to limit Billy Cunningham's offense... I want to entice him to jack up shots like he did in real life and be Valade's true #1 scoring option.
    First Bolded: As evidenced by their combined 0 Defensive teams. None of them were more than average at best defensively.

    Second Bolded: Yes, the Sonics put Hawkins on MJ to start the series, and they went in an 0-3 hole and Hawkins did so bad guarding MJ they had to switch and put GP on him. The best defensive achievement of Hawkins career was getting benched, he is certainly not a + on defense.

  15. #15
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    the more i look at team RR the more i love them

    they can neutralize Curry with both O and Conley, and if you need some length in case if Curry is having one of those nights, Hawkins/Penny/Tmac can do justice

    RR has the length to bother Drexler with Penny/Tmac/Hawkins/Middleton

    when tmac was motivated, he played great D. dont let the stats fool you. T-Mac when he wanted to could lock up anyone

    as well as Malone with Grant/Kirilenko/Dwight and Noah who all can defend in their prime

    team seagguls want to say they wouldnt get any production from Dwight and Grant but

    what do they except from Tyson who has 0 offensive game (at least dwight had a hook when he was on) and an inefficient billy cunningham?

    I also dont think its close with the bench either, better defenders, 3 good outside shooters, the versatility of Kirelenko and the spirit and leadership of Noah

    Team RR also has better rim protection, great job team RR


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