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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny01 View Post
    Except that it doesnít work. Itís the equivalent of beating the **** out of your car because it wonít start.
    So CIA operarives and military personnel who actually are in the field, who actually roll up their sleeves and do the dirty work, who actually get off their butts and do something, seem to feel that it has a value.

    You're view, (which I'm sure you can back up with all kinds of "internet proof" that it doesn't work), you're view as some chat room poster is that it doesn't work.

    Well, I'm convinced.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny01 View Post
    Except that it doesnít work. Itís the equivalent of beating the **** out of your car because it wonít start.
    A deceased friend of mine who was an undercover DEA agent in Columbia said torture absolutely works, in that as long as there is a fear of torture it changes the landscape of who is going to get into the game to begin with. He KNEW he could get tortured and killed and it scared the crap out of him, and he had decided that he had to keep a method handy do kill himself if they ever came for him to avoid the torture.

    By the way, he was absolutely against the US USING torture, but he understood why they shouldn't SAY the wouldn't use it.

  3. #63
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    Of course it ****ing works. Now obviously you're not going to get 100% truth but you guys saying it doesn't work would probably give up some of your personal information pretty goddamn quickly if you had a car battery attached to your testicles.

    LMAO... doesn't work, sure...
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  4. #64
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    Yeah, I mean you wouldnít say anything for the torture to stop.

    It doesnít work

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlakeyFool View Post
    Yeah, I mean you wouldnít say anything for the torture to stop.

    It doesnít work
    Yea, and then they'd come back and torture you more if you gave up wrong information. That's kinda how it works. How many toenails would you lose before you gave up your real social security number. I'd bet none.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    What is the big objection to waterboarding? So we're roughing up a prisoner a little and we're all upset over that? Like I said before, it's not like we're cutting fingers off. It's a step above pushing and shoving and no one has died fro it.

    I asked someone before if he would go along with this if his family was threatened and he responded, as most of us would, that he would pretty much go along with anything to save his family. Isn't it possible that information gained from waterboarding might save someones family?

    Are all these politicians that are against waterboarding really against waterboarding or is it just another arguing point used to oppose the opposite party and make them look heartless.

    There's a lot of bad people in the world. Not every part of the world is hiuggy-feely. Some Indonesian woman just strapped bombs onto her kids. It would have been nice to know about this wacko ahead of time.

    Sometimes the end justifies the means.
    I don't suppose that I should point out that the conservatives are supposed to be the ones with a healthy distrust of government and yet they are the ones who are perfectly happy to let the military and spy agencies torture people with little to no external oversight.

    I don't know if you explicitly asked me that question but I gave you the obvious answer. I would be in a state of grief and unbalance and would be willing to do many things that I shouldn't in order to try to fix the problem. There is a reason that we don't let the parents of murder victims kill the murderer.

    It would be foolhardy to deny that politicians are opportunists, but that doesn't make them wrong. More often than not opportunism is helpful.
    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!

  7. #67
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    Anyone else think that Waterboarding sounds like something you do while being pulled behind a boat?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I don't suppose that I should point out that the conservatives are supposed to be the ones with a healthy distrust of government and yet they are the ones who are perfectly happy to let the military and spy agencies torture people with little to no external oversight.

    I don't know if you explicitly asked me that question but I gave you the obvious answer. I would be in a state of grief and unbalance and would be willing to do many things that I shouldn't in order to try to fix the problem. There is a reason that we don't let the parents of murder victims kill the murderer.

    It would be foolhardy to deny that politicians are opportunists, but that doesn't make them wrong. More often than not opportunism is helpful.
    But those are not "our people" and are thus inherently less than.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    But those are not "our people" and are thus inherently less than.
    Itís fubny how an unaccountable bureaucracy can turn our people into not our people.

    By the way, I know youíre not really promoting that as your belief.

  10. #70
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    So just to clarify, sluggo and headbang and the others who are speaking in favor of this, if a US soldier is being tortured you don't feel any type of extra line was crossed? If the people that tortured them were ever taken captive, and they willingly gave us all the info we need, there shouldn't be anything extra taken into consideration concerning them regarding prosecution or indictment? Approach them exactly the same as if they never tortured anyone?

    Legit curious
    Last edited by nastynice; 05-16-2018 at 02:26 PM.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    I don't really give a **** what anyone here says. If you want to say it isn't, have someone waterboard you. The only way you can own the libs!
    Christopher Hitchens, despite all his liberal association for being an atheist, was actually a hawkish conservative politically. He volunteered to be waterboarded and it changed his perception a bit:

    https://youtu.be/4LPubUCJv58

    Waterboarding is torture.
    Torture is immoral and illegal by any global standard.

    Whether it works is debatable, but completely irrelevant.

    We try and execute enemies who do this to Americans. It doesnít become ok just because our side uses it.

    And letís remember the background of the people being subjected to this torture. Terrorists? Some of these detainees have not be charged, convicted or proven to be anything. And with the high bounties we have offered in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc there is a large number of reports on individuals from people who just need the money. And then off goes the neighbor they donít like to a CIA Black site.

    Again, the tribal nature of all of this is ****ing disgusting. If Haspel was Obamaís nominee Iím sure the other side would suddenly see the issue here.

  12. #72
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    The problem is obama didnít prosecute those who were responsible for torturing and essentially normalized the discussion. I wouldnít be shocked if torturing is still going on today.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Christopher Hitchens, despite all his liberal association for being an atheist, was actually a hawkish conservative politically. He volunteered to be waterboarded and it changed his perception a bit:

    https://youtu.be/4LPubUCJv58

    Waterboarding is torture.
    Torture is immoral and illegal by any global standard.

    Whether it works is debatable, but completely irrelevant.

    We try and execute enemies who do this to Americans. It doesnít become ok just because our side uses it.

    And letís remember the background of the people being subjected to this torture. Terrorists? Some of these detainees have not be charged, convicted or proven to be anything. And with the high bounties we have offered in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc there is a large number of reports on individuals from people who just need the money. And then off goes the neighbor they donít like to a CIA Black site.

    Again, the tribal nature of all of this is ****ing disgusting. If Haspel was Obamaís nominee Iím sure the other side would suddenly see the issue here.
    Thatís my number one concern aside from the mora issue itself. The fact that many of these are people have not been afforded any sort of due process is incredible concerning. Itís very hard to hold the moral high ground. I get they arenít US citizens so the standards are different. But is that truly the sort of country we want to be? Just because they arenít Ďour citizensí doesnít mean that these individuals should not have rights. Iím sure there are many more effective ways of getting the desired result.


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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlakeyFool View Post
    The problem is obama didnít prosecute those who were responsible for torturing and essentially normalized the discussion. I wouldnít be shocked if torturing is still going on today.
    I get what youíre saying. But the problem is that the torture was codified in both law and regulation. The CIA and other three letter agencies were given extraordinary powers after 9/11. Plus many memos that gave them the cover of DOJ and law enforcement (Nuremberg defense).

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    What is the big objection to waterboarding? So we're roughing up a prisoner a little and we're all upset over that? Like I said before, it's not like we're cutting fingers off. It's a step above pushing and shoving and no one has died fro it.

    I asked someone before if he would go along with this if his family was threatened and he responded, as most of us would, that he would pretty much go along with anything to save his family. Isn't it possible that information gained from waterboarding might save someones family?

    Are all these politicians that are against waterboarding really against waterboarding or is it just another arguing point used to oppose the opposite party and make them look heartless.

    There's a lot of bad people in the world. Not every part of the world is hiuggy-feely. Some Indonesian woman just strapped bombs onto her kids. It would have been nice to know about this wacko ahead of time.

    Sometimes the end justifies the means.
    There are alot of people who think we are the bad people. Are you ok with other countries waterboarding us

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