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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    Well, no. This sweep was a better series for us than the one where we won 2 games. We got ****ing annihilated 4 times in that series. The Cavs did not take us seriously in that series. We were expected to be a speed bump for them so nobody talked about it which is why this year's series is rightfully dissected even more. They had to work considerably harder this time.

    I don't know if you will agree with me on this but game 4 in a 3-0 series, I don't have the numbers in front of me here but historically these are almost guaranteed losses. And on the road? After having your season taken on a ridiculous buzzer beater? I'm not holding a coach accountable for that, that's human nature.

    And if you look at the other 3 games, 2 of 3 were within reach in the final minute. Factor in that this is all-time amazing LeBron we are seeing right now.... if you don't think that is much closer than we were in the past to getting past LeBron than I think you are misremembering how those games went.

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    Two wins are still two wins, especially against a better opponent. I'd rather have two victories and get blown out the rest of the way than get swept. Difference in perspective I suppose. It doesn't matter to me margin of victory, it doesn't matter if you win (or lose) by an inch or a mile. (Yeah, I quoted Vinnie Diesel). I don't believe for one minute that this year was closer than last year or the year before, and I think saying otherwise by the coach is poor form.

    I'm not holding Casey accountable either. For any of this. It's a roster construction problem, not a coaching problem. We don't beat the Cavs no matter whose coaching. I think it's a bad decision unless there's more moves to come where the new coach will have a different system that better fits the new acquisitions. However, we all know that Masai is a notorious hand sitter, so once again I wouldn't be surprised if we re-sign any of our own free agents, make our pick (if we even have a second) and once again call it an off season.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer:32341486
    Well, no. This sweep was a better series for us than the one where we won 2 games. We got ****ing annihilated 4 times in that series. The Cavs did not take us seriously in that series. We were expected to be a speed bump for them so nobody talked about it which is why this year's series is rightfully dissected even more. They had to work considerably harder this time.

    I don't know if you will agree with me on this but game 4 in a 3-0 series, I don't have the numbers in front of me here but historically these are almost guaranteed losses. And on the road? After having your season taken on a ridiculous buzzer beater? I'm not holding a coach accountable for that, that's human nature.

    And if you look at the other 3 games, 2 of 3 were within reach in the final minute. Factor in that this is all-time amazing LeBron we are seeing right now.... if you don't think that is much closer than we were in the past to getting past LeBron than I think you are misremembering how those games went.

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    I'll take the 6 game series. That Cavs team was much better and were scoring at a record pace.

    This year the Raptors should have took the first game but played poorly in every other game. Game 3 never really felt like a winnable game, despite the comeback. They had more turnovers than assists in that game. It was bad basketball but they came back by being more physical. I'll give them credit, but the offense didn't seem sustainable and I highly doubt they would have had enough to win in OT.

    Keep in mind, this Cavs team is terrible. I don't believe they have figured it out. The Raptors made them look really good.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Two wins are still two wins, especially against a better opponent. I'd rather have two victories and get blown out the rest of the way than get swept. Difference in perspective I suppose. It doesn't matter to me margin of victory, it doesn't matter if you win (or lose) by an inch or a mile. (Yeah, I quoted Vinnie Diesel). I don't believe for one minute that this year was closer than last year or the year before, and I think saying otherwise by the coach is poor form.

    I'm not holding Casey accountable either. For any of this. It's a roster construction problem, not a coaching problem. We don't beat the Cavs no matter whose coaching. I think it's a bad decision unless there's more moves to come where the new coach will have a different system that better fits the new acquisitions. However, we all know that Masai is a notorious hand sitter, so once again I wouldn't be surprised if we re-sign any of our own free agents, make our pick (if we even have a second) and once again call it an off season.
    Definitely difference in perspective. The Raptors showed they could compete with Cleveland this series. Getting destroyed by an average of 30 points per game 2 years ago showed me that Cleveland took their foot off the gas and needed a reality check. Think about this. The closest of their 4 losses was 19 freaking points. They got destroyed 4 times, and in none of them can you say well, let's be real the Raptors have no chance to win the series anymore so don't be surprised if they get demolished. Nope, they got the doors blown off them in game 1. And after getting the series level at 2 they respond with another 30 point loss. And what's really sort of important to remember, in my books at least, is that Cleveland did not extend the lead in the 4th quarter in those games. They were run out the gym by the end of the 3rd. They were not soul crushing defeats, they were embarrassing defeats.

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    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 05-12-2018 at 05:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    I'll take the 6 game series. That Cavs team was much better and were scoring at a record pace.

    This year the Raptors should have took the first game but played poorly in every other game. Game 3 never really felt like a winnable game, despite the comeback. They had more turnovers than assists in that game. It was bad basketball but they came back by being more physical. I'll give them credit, but the offense didn't seem sustainable and I highly doubt they would have had enough to win in OT.

    Keep in mind, this Cavs team is terrible. I don't believe they have figured it out. The Raptors made them look really good.
    What is it you expect them to figure out? How to beat the greatest overall force the league has ever seen? We don't have even the best player in the NBA at their position, much less the possible best player in the history of the sport playing at his apex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer:32341682
    What is it you expect them to figure out? How to beat the greatest overall force the league has ever seen? We don't have even the best player in the NBA at their position, much less the possible best player in the history of the sport playing at his apex.

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    I'm not sure where you are taking this. I was merely refuting your thought that this sweep was better than the series that went 6.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    I'm not sure where you are taking this. I was merely refuting your thought that this sweep was better than the series that went 6.
    in the aggregate it's probably equal, but I'd slightly lean toward the 6 game series like you. Jamie seems to be insinuating that the Cavs are the same, but that's far from the case. This Cavs team is infinitely worse.


  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadds The Gr8 View Post
    in the aggregate it's probably equal, but I'd slightly lean toward the 6 game series like you. Jamie seems to be insinuating that the Cavs are the same, but that's far from the case. This Cavs team is infinitely worse.
    Aha! The source of confusion. Did Casey not say the gap was closing? Was that not the source of irritation for some? Where did I ever suggest the Cavs are the same now as then? We are unquestionably better now, and they are unquestionably worse. For the record, I feel quite certain the players would tell you they should have won this series and that they would not say the same for 2 years ago. The games were there to be had that could have made a real series of this.

    Actually let me ask you guys this: after they got waxed in games 1 and 2 in cleveland, by 70 points.... then won at home games 3 and 4.... was there really any doubt in your mind what was going to occur back in Cleveland? I think anyone who says they didn't know what we were in for in games 5 and 6 is a big fat liar

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    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 05-12-2018 at 08:15 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    Aha! The source of confusion. Did Casey not say the gap was closing? Was that not the source of irritation for some? Where did I ever suggest the Cavs are the same now as then? We are unquestionably better now, and they are unquestionably worse. For the record, I feel quite certain the players would tell you they should have won this series and that they would not say the same for 2 years ago. The games were there to be had that could have made a real series of this.

    Actually let me ask you guys this: after they got waxed in games 1 and 2 in cleveland, by 70 points.... then won at home games 3 and 4.... was there really any doubt in your mind what was going to occur back in Cleveland? I think anyone who says they didn't know what we were in for in games 5 and 6 is a big fat liar

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    I knew we'd lose regardless. LBJ even said the Raptors weren't a threat when it was 2-2 on some disrespectful type **** lol. But even if the Cavs showed them mercy 2 yrs ago by gifting them 2 wins, that only helped Casey. I think he woulda been fired last year if we got swept 2 years ago. Masai was pissed off in last year's season ending presser. I doubt he would've allowed 3 straight sweeps to happen, which would make the Raptors look like an even bigger joke.

    And yes I know LBJ is arguably the GOAT, but 2-3 straight sweeps is pathetic. Losing to him is fine, but not even getting a W is just awful.


  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadds The Gr8 View Post
    I knew we'd lose regardless. LBJ even said the Raptors weren't a threat when it was 2-2 on some disrespectful type **** lol. But even if the Cavs showed them mercy 2 yrs ago by gifting them 2 wins, that only helped Casey. I think he woulda been fired last year if we got swept 2 years ago. Masai was pissed off in last year's season ending presser. I doubt he would've allowed 3 straight sweeps to happen, which would make the Raptors look like an even bigger joke.

    And yes I know LBJ is arguably the GOAT, but 2-3 straight sweeps is pathetic. Losing to him is fine, but not even getting a W is just awful.
    **** that's right how did I forget my best argument for the difference between that series and this one... wasn't he doing some Harlem globetrotters **** all through that series or was it last year?

    I hear you Btw, that a sweep feels inherently like you are not competing but we both know that is not necessarily true. I'm surprised that after complying fully with Masai's demand for an overhaul of the offensive system that he wasn't able to separate previous postseason's results from this one. Sometimes you just aren't good enough to win against the best.

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    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 05-12-2018 at 09:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    Definitely difference in perspective. The Raptors showed they could compete with Cleveland this series. Getting destroyed by an average of 30 points per game 2 years ago showed me that Cleveland took their foot off the gas and needed a reality check. Think about this. The closest of their 4 losses was 19 freaking points. They got destroyed 4 times, and in none of them can you say well, let's be real the Raptors have no chance to win the series anymore so don't be surprised if they get demolished. Nope, they got the doors blown off them in game 1. And after getting the series level at 2 they respond with another 30 point loss. And what's really sort of important to remember, in my books at least, is that Cleveland did not extend the lead in the 4th quarter in those games. They were run out the gym by the end of the 3rd. They were not soul crushing defeats, they were embarrassing defeats.

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    We'll have to agree to disagree. I think this one is far worse than the previous years, the gap hasn't closed at all. This was their chance and they blew it.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    We'll have to agree to disagree. I think this one is far worse than the previous years, the gap hasn't closed at all. This was their chance and they blew it.
    Fair enough. No point arguing details if we arent seeing the same thing lol. Plus it's sorta done, no choice but to hope for the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    **** that's right how did I forget my best argument for the difference between that series and this one... wasn't he doing some Harlem globetrotters **** all through that series or was it last year?

    I hear you Btw, that a sweep feels inherently like you are not competing but we both know that is not necessarily true. I'm surprised that after complying fully with Masai's demand for an overhaul of the offensive system that he wasn't able to separate previous postseason's results from this one. Sometimes you just aren't good enough to win against the best.

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    He said some **** like "I've been in adverse situations and this isn't one of them" when it was 2-2. I think it was last year tho when he was just clowning us on the court

    I think it depends how the sweep goes. The Cavs swept Indiana and Detroit in recent years but those 2 teams were close than even we were in those games and that was without HCA. I'm not as positive about this one as you are. We were getting smoked in 3 games and game 3 was sort of an anomoly with us making a run with our best player on the bench. Everyone and their mothers knew we wouldn't win that game.

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  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadds The Gr8 View Post
    game 3 was sort of an anomoly with us making a run with our best player on the bench. Everyone and their mothers knew we wouldn't win that game.

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    I'm all for hyperbole but this is a bit much. That is much more a testament to LeBrons greatness than anything having to do with the Raptors play. All tie games are not created equal. In my experience when a team comes back from a bunch and are fighting for their lives they frequently do ride that out to victory. Especially when the strength of said team is what is on the floor.

    BTW you still buying that Derozan is actually the teams best player? The man was an incredible -74 over the last 3 games. If you believe Casey was fired because of how this series went only than Lebron/Demar practically got the man canned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    I'm all for hyperbole but this is a bit much. That is much more a testament to LeBrons greatness than anything having to do with the Raptors play. All tie games are not created equal. In my experience when a team comes back from a bunch and are fighting for their lives they frequently do ride that out to victory. Especially when the strength of said team is what is on the floor.

    BTW you still buying that Derozan is actually the teams best player? The man was an incredible -74 over the last 3 games. If you believe Casey was fired because of how this series went only than Lebron/Demar practically got the man canned.

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    Meh...it might feel like most comeback wins go to the team that was losing but I'm not sure I'd assume that. I'd be interested in seeing the data but that'd be hard to find. We were still getting crushed in that game and were clearly the inferior team tho.

    Lowry was always better until this year imo. I think this season Demar passed lowry and was our best player.

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  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadds The Gr8 View Post
    Meh...it might feel like most comeback wins go to the team that was losing but I'm not sure I'd assume that. I'd be interested in seeing the data but that'd be hard to find. We were still getting crushed in that game and were clearly the inferior team tho.

    Lowry was always better until this year imo. I think this season Demar passed lowry and was our best player.

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    Fair enough. When I said frequently I did not mean to imply the majority, only that blowing a big lead is sometimes quite demoralizing and momentum sometimes carries you through. That seems a fair ways from everyone and their mother knew we would lose, although as a Raptor fan, and with James involved it is almost a programmed instinct

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

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