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  1. #61
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    If the Lakers offer Ingram, Hart, Zubac, CLE 1st, LAL '19 1st for Kawhi...Do the Spurs say no?

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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by KobeOwnSU View Post
    If the Lakers offer Ingram, Hart, Zubac, CLE 1st, LAL '19 1st for Kawhi...Do the Spurs say no?

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
    You can't do that due to the Stepein Rule. Unless you drafted a player and then traded the player. But that would mean either a draft night trade or knowing who the Spurs would take.

    PROCESSING

  3. #63
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    Only if it's your pick in consecutive years.

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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Of course Boston is a great place to play for a lot of guys. Itís also going to be a challenge for them to get them.

    The point was you donít think the coach that worked with him for a while and helped develop his game would be a great spot for him? Thereís a couple of great spots for him because of ties to the Spurs from when KL was rounding his game into shape.

    So Bostonís a good place but at what cost? Is it worth it if it costs Boston Brown/Tatum (youth), Horford/Heyward (salary), and Picks (add to the youth)? Because then it would tie up cap, force them to have to sign Smart and or Rozier when the time comes, and go VM for centers and center depth. On the surface it makes them better because itís a top player, but it hurts things like depth and ability to defend size.

    IMO Boston doesnít need a swing for the fences move anymore. Theyíve done that 3 straight off seasons. They need to tweak the edges and build with what they have.

    And thatís not some anti-Boston or hate talk. Itís the truth. The cost and value to Boston to obtain Kawhi is too high.
    The past couple of all star level players haven't really been traded for the house. Teams won't have to give up so called a lot for Kawhi. Also it depends on if he has a list.

    Because if he doesn't have a so called list of teams, you can imagine... Teams won't give up a lot for a rental, special small market teams. Lakers would give up whatever because Kawhi is from that area & the believe they could sale him. Also they would be able to draw more stars there.

    Quote Originally Posted by lakerfan85 View Post
    Itís all BS speculation until free agency starts..
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    Truthfully though, I'd be a bit surprised if Kawhi was dealt at all at this point.
    Agreed
    Last edited by Dade County; 05-05-2018 at 11:41 PM.







    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    As a rookie Micheal Beasley averaged 13.9pts per game on .472 shooting. Do you know how many times Kobe Bryant or Tracy Mcgrady shot at that percent or better? Never in there whole careers. If Beas can be what he was when he was a rookie (he won't hell be better) then the heat are coming away with another steal.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dade County View Post
    The past couple of all star level players haven't really been traded for the house. Teams won't have to give up so called a lot for Kawhi. Also it depends on if he has a list.

    Because if he doesn't have a so called list of teams, you can imagine... Teams won't give up a lot for a rental, special small market teams. Lakers would give up whatever because Kawhi is from that area & the believe they could sale him. Also they would be able to draw more stars there.
    Fair enough, but we don't know if he has a list or not. All we know is the leak that he wants to have a big market. We dunno if he has a list of teams.

    For the Celtics, someone with big money needs to move (basically). I think they might be able to do it if the renounce every FA, and do a Tatum/Brown, Morris package. But that would also mean that they can't bring back Greg Monroe, Marcus Smart, Aron Baynes, Shane Larkin. I know two of those might likely be expendable.

    That would give them:
    Kyrie - Rozier
    Brown - ???
    Hayward - Nader
    Leonard - Ojeleye - Yabusele
    Horford - Theis

    That's a great starting lineup and all but they can't play 40+ minutes all the time. I get that they could pick around for some minimum salary guys. But that's riskier than it sounds. You're betting on Leonard being successful as a full time 4, and that he'll be ok with that and willing to resign doing it.

    PROCESSING

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Fair enough, but we don't know if he has a list or not. All we know is the leak that he wants to have a big market. We dunno if he has a list of teams.

    For the Celtics, someone with big money needs to move (basically). I think they might be able to do it if the renounce every FA, and do a Tatum/Brown, Morris package. But that would also mean that they can't bring back Greg Monroe, Marcus Smart, Aron Baynes, Shane Larkin. I know two of those might likely be expendable.

    That would give them:
    Kyrie - Rozier
    Brown - ???
    Hayward - Nader
    Leonard - Ojeleye - Yabusele
    Horford - Theis

    That's a great starting lineup and all but they can't play 40+ minutes all the time. I get that they could pick around for some minimum salary guys. But that's riskier than it sounds. You're betting on Leonard being successful as a full time 4, and that he'll be ok with that and willing to resign doing it.
    I don't understand why BOS has to renounce their FAs. They'd be over the cap and match salaries in the trade. No reason at all for them to have to renounce their FAs. Now, with the salary constraints of that team Smart would probably be too expensive for them to retain in their budget. Particularly with Rozier being a fine backup PG and Semi being a defensive stopper. But Baynes? Non-bird rights let them bring him back at 120% of this year's $4.328M salary without dipping into exceptions. Seems likely with how well he's played and the flexibility that preserves. It fits him in the tax payer's MLE range too which is fair for him too IMO.

    And speaking of extensions, before they start chasing MLE guys they'd have the tax payer's MLE ($5.192M last year - can't find 2018-19 estimate) and the bi-annual exception ($3.29M), price range in which they'd probably be among the most popular destinations.

    Minor detail but in your trade Yabusele would need to be included in the deal along with Nader's non-guaranteed deal to match salary.

    So, I think if BOS did make the Tatum based deal you suggest I think the picture would be:

    Kyrie / Rozier
    KL / (MLE signing)
    Hayward / Brown
    Horford / Ojeleye
    Baynes / Theis

    Like I said, Smart is probably gone in this scenario so the MLE gives a cheaper alternative to fill that last second unit spot. I assumed they'd try to bring Brown off the bench to balance out but he'd obviously be in to close over Baynes. Not really important - point is, that's the 10 man rotation.

    Those 10 guys would cost a combined $121,703,810 next year. The luxury tax is expected to be $123M. So BOS would be over by a few million once they fill out the last 5 spots.

    So, maybe they'd go a little cheap. Instead of Baynes for that full non-bird exemption they use the bi-annual exception for a rotational big to save $2M. Should be doable. And maybe they go a little lower on the FA pecking order and use let's say $3.5M of the MLE instead of the full amount. Should still be able to get a solid rotational player, even it's just bringing back Larkin who they already have.

    But anyway, I think you really cut out a lot of steps to where they're going to have to use Nader as a second unit player. You jumped over the rest of the offseason besides the trade.


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  7. #67
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    I think the Suns go Doncic if he's available now since, the New Coach guided Dragic and Doncic to the european title with Slovenia. Not a sure thing, but the Doncic train for Phoenix got a big spike.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I don't understand why BOS has to renounce their FAs. They'd be over the cap and match salaries in the trade. No reason at all for them to have to renounce their FAs.
    Might want to check where I said if they do a Kawhi deal without matching salaries. I was responding to where beasted said teams haven't been giving up a lot in star player deals. Salary wise, outside of the 3 max contracts, Boston has a lot of smaller deals. It's a challenge to salary match in that case, so the next bet is doing an unbalanced salary trade, which means getting under the cap by the amount that's going unmatched.

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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Might want to check where I said if they do a Kawhi deal without matching salaries. I was responding to where beasted said teams haven't been giving up a lot in star player deals. Salary wise, outside of the 3 max contracts, Boston has a lot of smaller deals. It's a challenge to salary match in that case, so the next bet is doing an unbalanced salary trade, which means getting under the cap by the amount that's going unmatched.
    Gotcha. I didn't think he meant not a lot in terms of salary but in terms of talent/picks.

    BOS does have kind of a divide in salary. 3 high salaries then a bunch of low salaries. Part of why I want to re-sign Smart is just for the sake of having some salary to work with in trades down the road TBH.

    I do think it's fine for a Kawhi deal. Like I said in my last post, Tatum/Morris/Yabu/Nader(non-guaranteed) works for KL. I imagine BOS would push for Brown instead of Tatum though in which case either Theis or Semi would need to be added (also non-guaranteed but I imagine SA would actually want to keep either). And then SA counters with probably wanting Rozier too if they're getting Brown instead of Tatum in which case BOS is giving up more than enough salary.

    All of the stars getting traded now are, for the most part, under old CBA deals. So BOS is fine for now. Once it's guys under current CBA deals getting moves there will be salary matching issues as BOS is currently constructed because they lack the ability to match those salaries without giving up too much talent because the deals are so small.


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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Gotcha. I didn't think he meant not a lot in terms of salary but in terms of talent/picks.

    BOS does have kind of a divide in salary. 3 high salaries then a bunch of low salaries. Part of why I want to re-sign Smart is just for the sake of having some salary to work with in trades down the road TBH.

    I do think it's fine for a Kawhi deal. Like I said in my last post, Tatum/Morris/Yabu/Nader(non-guaranteed) works for KL. I imagine BOS would push for Brown instead of Tatum though in which case either Theis or Semi would need to be added (also non-guaranteed but I imagine SA would actually want to keep either). And then SA counters with probably wanting Rozier too if they're getting Brown instead of Tatum in which case BOS is giving up more than enough salary.

    All of the stars getting traded now are, for the most part, under old CBA deals. So BOS is fine for now. Once it's guys under current CBA deals getting moves there will be salary matching issues as BOS is currently constructed because they lack the ability to match those salaries without giving up too much talent because the deals are so small.
    Yea, unfortunately for you guys I see those things as highly linked together. Outside of Brown/Tatum, the talent is high money. That's where having a better "NBA Middle class" ($8mil-15mil deals) is so important. But as I've railed at these superteams have hurt the NBA middle class.

    Like I look at the PG13/Dipo-Sabo deal. Indy should have gotten more, but Dipo making $21 mil a year, rather than the NBA middle class of $12mil hurt them. If he was making $12 mil, that means that OKC would have had to add more salary to the deal, meaning Indy would have gotten more talent. (I mean there were other issues with that but it's a good example of what I'm talking about)

    I think it could be made to work, but it's going to take major sacrifices. Especially if you are trying to retain Kyrie, Kawhi, and Gordon long term, even with Horford's contract is up, whichever of Brown or Tatum is left will likely way a max. That means having to sacrifice someone unless ownership is willing to pay a big tax.

    What could make that tougher on you guys: Kawhi and Kyrie both have player options for the 2019-2020 season that (unless something bad happens) I can see them both wanting to opt out of for the 30% max (raising each of their salaries by $10-12mil a year). That's the year of Horfords Player Option as well. You could be looking at a $64 mil new contracts to go with the $62 mil that could stay on. What does that mean for Brown getting an extension that year (or Tatum the year after).

    Trust me, as I'm running through these things for my Sixers too. We're going to have our own decisions to make, especially if we get a 4 year max this year as it will likely mean only 2 of Fultz (if he develops), Simmons, Saric will be on this team long term. We might have to dump some other guys (like RoCo), and get creative with retaining some other players.

    PROCESSING

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Yea, unfortunately for you guys I see those things as highly linked together. Outside of Brown/Tatum, the talent is high money. That's where having a better "NBA Middle class" ($8mil-15mil deals) is so important. But as I've railed at these superteams have hurt the NBA middle class.

    Like I look at the PG13/Dipo-Sabo deal. Indy should have gotten more, but Dipo making $21 mil a year, rather than the NBA middle class of $12mil hurt them. If he was making $12 mil, that means that OKC would have had to add more salary to the deal, meaning Indy would have gotten more talent. (I mean there were other issues with that but it's a good example of what I'm talking about)

    I think it could be made to work, but it's going to take major sacrifices. Especially if you are trying to retain Kyrie, Kawhi, and Gordon long term, even with Horford's contract is up, whichever of Brown or Tatum is left will likely way a max. That means having to sacrifice someone unless ownership is willing to pay a big tax.

    What could make that tougher on you guys: Kawhi and Kyrie both have player options for the 2019-2020 season that (unless something bad happens) I can see them both wanting to opt out of for the 30% max (raising each of their salaries by $10-12mil a year). That's the year of Horfords Player Option as well. You could be looking at a $64 mil new contracts to go with the $62 mil that could stay on. What does that mean for Brown getting an extension that year (or Tatum the year after).

    Trust me, as I'm running through these things for my Sixers too. We're going to have our own decisions to make, especially if we get a 4 year max this year as it will likely mean only 2 of Fultz (if he develops), Simmons, Saric will be on this team long term. We might have to dump some other guys (like RoCo), and get creative with retaining some other players.
    I don't think Hayward will be here for a second deal. As of right now, Brown is set to come due for an extension the year Horford expires and Tatum is set to become due for his the year Hayward expires. That's assuming that Horford and Hayward opt into their 4th years, a given for Horford and probably likely for Hayward.

    Horford's deal will expire after his age 33 season. At that age and not being an elite player I wouldn't expect max deals. He'd have already made over $200M in his career at that point. I'd expect them to work something out at that point where he could end his career in Boston. Kind of like the deals Dirk/KG/Duncan signed in the past (Dirk ended up getting another huge deal because Dallas had no one else to spend on but I mean the deal before his current one). If Horford wants a huge deal though then he's probably gone.

    Hayward on the other hand will expire after his age 30 season - probably young enough to get another huge deal. I'd think if there's a decision to be made he's the one to go. Kyrie is younger and better. Brown and Tatum are way younger and better investments. Hayward is just the odd man out if it comes to that.

    Tp bring it back to KL, I don't think we'll offer Tatum. I can see us offering everything else though if they think he'll stay. In that case, KL's salary just takes over for Brown. It would have to kick in one year early so it puts an extra stress on the tax but after that one year the scenarios I explained above carry through.


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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I don't think Hayward will be here for a second deal. That's assuming that Horford and Hayward opt into their 4th years, a given for Horford and probably likely for Hayward.

    Horford's deal will expire after his age 33 season. At that age and not being an elite player I wouldn't expect max deals. He'd have already made over $200M in his career at that point. I'd expect them to work something out at that point where he could end his career in Boston. Kind of like the deals Dirk/KG/Duncan signed in the past (Dirk ended up getting another huge deal because Dallas had no one else to spend on but I mean the deal before his current one). If Horford wants a huge deal though then he's probably gone.

    Hayward on the other hand will expire after his age 30 season - probably young enough to get another huge deal. I'd think if there's a decision to be made he's the one to go. Kyrie is younger and better. Brown and Tatum are way younger and better investments. Hayward is just the odd man out if it comes to that.
    Horford absolutely opts in... Hayward will be a tough one to judge... He's not necessarily gonna be the man in green next season... Kyrie will probably lead in ppg followed by a tight group of GH, JT and JB... I think at 30 Hayward can get a 100+mil deal, but IMO not in Boston... If JB and JT continue to show growth next season, IMO DA and Stevens gives them the Lillard and McCollum type deals... The difference between those two duo's is the height and length is such an advantage for the C's...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heediot View Post
    I think the Suns go Doncic if he's available now since, the New Coach guided Dragic and Doncic to the european title with Slovenia. Not a sure thing, but the Doncic train for Phoenix got a big spike.
    if the Suns pass on Ayton the GM should be fired.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by KobeOwnSU View Post
    Only if it's your pick in consecutive years.

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    Nope. It's having a 1st round pick in general.

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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDish87 View Post
    if the Suns pass on Ayton the GM should be fired.
    Doncic is going to be a special player imo (well, he is. We are talking about a guy who is already leading/crushing in the 2nd best league in the world as a teenager. He's a proven star). And I'm fairly certain their hire was in fact specifically tailored to drafting him. That all said, if Ayton has a strong work ethic (I don't know much about him other than a few Arizona games I caught... I was hoping to catch more in the tourney... But so much for that), he's also going to be special, and it fills a huge need for them.

    Rest assure though, if Doncic doesn't go 1, he will go 2. And, signs point to him going 1.

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