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Thread: Josh Allen

  1. #76
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    Allen is a work in progress. We knew that when he was drafted. He has his good days and he has his bad days. Still, heís doing things that neither McCarron or Peterman can do. More concerning than Allen for me is the fact that those two have been just as inconsistent and far less impressive. The only way Allen was going to start Week 1 was to absolutely blow everyone away and force it. The fact that neither of the other two have pulled away in this three dog race is worrisome. Especially for McCarron, who I expected better things from.

  2. #77
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    Last edited by smood999; 08-08-2018 at 09:02 AM.

  3. #78
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    Deleting my posts because I don't want to come off too negative regarding Allen, as that is not the case.

    All I'll say is read and listen to what's out there. Even if you believe this is about McDermott purposely not putting him out there, it's also every bit as much about his actual performance so far.
    Last edited by smood999; 08-08-2018 at 09:04 AM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Deleting my posts because I don't want to come off too negative regarding Allen, as that is not the case.

    All I'll say is read and listen to what's out there. Even if you believe this is about McDermott purposely not putting him out there, it's also every bit as much about his actual performance so far.
    I'm pretty sure I read everything you wrote in the last day or two on this thread. It didn't come off as negative and you certainly didn't need to delete any of it. It was based in reality. I think only the most delusional Bills homer would argue that Allen has so far been anything other than what was expected.

    His ceiling is super high but his floor is very low. The Bills need to devote tons of time and resources to him to make sure he nets out closer to that ceiling than that floor. I believe that McDermott and the front office realize this and they'll take baby steps with him. I stand by my contention that he probably shouldn't start a game in 2018 in the hopes that he can be in a real strong position to seize the starting role in year 2 with a stronger supporting cast around him.

  5. #80
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    My stance has never been that Allen should start or that heís ahead of the other two, although itís been clear through camp that his talent and ability to make certain throws has been far beyond theirs. He isnít ready, but... to repeat my last post, McCarron and Peterman have both disappointed me more than Allen, who we knew wasnít going to seize the starting duty. We donít even have a starter named for our first game tomorrow night because neither guy has been able to outplay the other, and it isnít a case of both playing well either.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Bills Fan View Post
    I'm pretty sure I read everything you wrote in the last day or two on this thread. It didn't come off as negative and you certainly didn't need to delete any of it. It was based in reality. I think only the most delusional Bills homer would argue that Allen has so far been anything other than what was expected.

    His ceiling is super high but his floor is very low. The Bills need to devote tons of time and resources to him to make sure he nets out closer to that ceiling than that floor. I believe that McDermott and the front office realize this and they'll take baby steps with him. I stand by my contention that he probably shouldn't start a game in 2018 in the hopes that he can be in a real strong position to seize the starting role in year 2 with a stronger supporting cast around him.
    It was more my posts this morning before anyone was on. I went in a bit lol.

    Yes, you're right though. I'm just backing off because I was extremely critical of him throughout the draft process and I want to at least let him play an actual game before I start formulating an opinion.

    It seems that he is as advertised though and that means it could be a long time before we actually see him in a real game.
    Last edited by smood999; 08-08-2018 at 12:05 PM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    My stance has never been that Allen should start or that heís ahead of the other two, although itís been clear through camp that his talent and ability to make certain throws has been far beyond theirs. He isnít ready, but... to repeat my last post, McCarron and Peterman have both disappointed me more than Allen, who we knew wasnít going to seize the starting duty. We donít even have a starter named for our first game tomorrow night because neither guy has been able to outplay the other, and it isnít a case of both playing well either.
    That's fine, but the bold is the problem especially considering who he's behind.

    Who was the last QB drafted early in the first round that didn't play right away or who couldn't beat out the competition almost immediately? Mahomes sat last year, but it was behind Alex Smith. Aaron Rodgers sat, but it was behind Favre. He was also drafted later in the first and it happened over a decade ago.

    Paxton Lynch not being able to beat out Trevor Siemian was a red flag and he still isn't able to get onto the field. It's one thing if they are purposely held out, but the expectation when drafting a QB that high is that they should automatically become the team's best option. That's why I'd be super concerned if it came out that he wasn't at least even better than Peterman overall. As of now, we don't know this to necessarily be the case though so this is strictly IF.

    This idea of him sitting and the way he is viewed because he's big and has a strong arm is very much an old-school mentality that has mostly died, or is dying out, around the league.
    Last edited by smood999; 08-08-2018 at 12:28 PM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    That's fine, but the bold is the problem especially considering who he's behind.

    Who was the last QB drafted early in the first round that didn't play right away or who couldn't beat out the competition almost immediately? Mahomes sat last year, but it was behind Alex Smith. Aaron Rodgers sat, but it was behind Favre. He was also drafted later in the first and it happened over a decade ago.

    Paxton Lynch not being able to beat out Trevor Siemian was a red flag and he still isn't able to get onto the field. It's one thing if they are purposely held out, but the expectation when drafting a QB that high is that they should automatically become the team's best option. That's why I'd be super concerned if it came out that he wasn't at least even better than Peterman overall. As of now, we don't know this to necessarily be the case though so this is strictly IF.

    This idea of him sitting and the way he is viewed because he's big and has a strong arm is very much an old-school mentality that has mostly died, or is dying out, around the league.
    The Bills said from the moment they drafted him that Daboll had a specific plan for developing him. McDermott recently referenced it as ďcalculated.Ē It shouldnít be any surprise that Allen isnít being viewed as a potential starter. The fact that he hasnít beaten out the weak competition in front of him isnít a slight to Allen as much as how pitiful the others are. Allen was never going to start Week 1. Regardless of where he was drafted. Itís pointless to use his draft slot as a reason to rush him. Plenty of QBs who were drafted earlier than Allen and considered ďmore readyĒ were thrown in and failed. It was always a two man competition. The only way Allen was starting Week 1 was if he came to camp and became Aaron Rodgers. But that has absolutely nothing to do with how bad the other two have been.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    The Bills said from the moment they drafted him that Daboll had a specific plan for developing him. McDermott recently referenced it as ďcalculated.Ē It shouldnít be any surprise that Allen isnít being viewed as a potential starter. The fact that he hasnít beaten out the weak competition in front of him isnít a slight to Allen as much as how pitiful the others are. Allen was never going to start Week 1. Regardless of where he was drafted. Itís pointless to use his draft slot as a reason to rush him. Plenty of QBs who were drafted earlier than Allen and considered ďmore readyĒ were thrown in and failed. It was always a two man competition. The only way Allen was starting Week 1 was if he came to camp and became Aaron Rodgers. But that has absolutely nothing to do with how bad the other two have been.
    That does not align with him receiving some 1st team reps to start and then it abruptly stopping. Him receiving those reps suggests that he was in the competition, otherwise it was a waste. The fact that it stopped suggests that performance is absolutely a factor, which reporters who have attended all of these practices have alluded to.

    Your point would be stronger if he went in and they never gave him a chance. That would indicate that they weren't going to start him regardless. Even some of your recent posts have suggested that he may win the job.

    Yes, plenty of QBs have failed when they were thrown into the fire right away, but how many can you name that didn't play right away, due to performance, but ultimately succeeded without going back 13+ years?

    Again, we don't know either way for sure, but IF that's the case it's concerning. I am not telling you that it IS the case...just saying if.

    Regarding McCarron and Peterman, we have a good idea of what they are so I'm not sure why they are disappointing. They are performing as expected and if anything Peterman is performing better than expected.
    Last edited by smood999; 08-08-2018 at 03:36 PM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    That does not align with him receiving some 1st team reps to start and then it abruptly stopping. Him receiving those reps suggests that he was in the competition, otherwise it was a waste. The fact that it stopped suggests that performance is absolutely a factor, which reporters who have attended all of these practices have alluded to.

    Your point would be stronger if he went in and they never gave him a chance. That would indicate that they weren't going to start him regardless. Even some of your recent posts have suggested that he may win the job.

    Yes, plenty of QBs have failed when they were thrown into the fire right away, but how many can you name that didn't play right away, due to performance, but ultimately succeeded without going back 13+ years?

    Again, we don't know either way for sure, but IF that's the case it's concerning. I am not telling you that it IS the case...just saying if.

    Regarding McCarron and Peterman, we have a good idea of what they are so I'm not sure why they are disappointing. They are performing as expected and if anything Peterman is performing better than expected.
    It aligns just fine. Giving Allen time with the 1st team doesnít mean he was ever being considered as a day one starter. To not give him that time with the 1ís would have been foolish. The fact that it stopped suggests nothing other than its time to determine who is going to start in Baltimore in a few weeks and those reps are more important to the other two now. All three QBs have had their good days and not-so-good days. All three have been inconsistent. Itís just that Allenís good days have been more impressive than McCarronís or Petermanís. With that being said, and despite my earlier belief that Allen could win the job, it looks and sounds like he was never considered from the start. Personally, I think the belief that all top QB prospects should be treated the same and he should just ďbe thrown in thereĒ is as senseless as you think the out-dated philosophy of sitting him is. The fact is that Allen is going to play when Daboll and McDermott want him to and the impatient media and fans just have to understand that.

  11. #86
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    Yeah I'm still convinced Allen would win more games and make more plays than McCarron or Peterman - and I think the coaching staff would agree. He's not in the running for QB1 befause:
    A) he has a lot to learn coming in as a project qb
    B) the plans was always for him to sit - even if he looked like Aaron Rodgers out there, McCarron was always going to get a shot to start.
    C) there is very little to gain from putting him behind this OL, and a lot to lose. This isn't the year, the team is a work in progress.

    I also do not put much stock into his accuracy issues turning him into a bust. He will never be an overly accurate QB and the coaching staff knows this. He's a mobile big arm qb - if he had no accuracy concerns then he would have been drafted #1 and a sure fire superstar. Ideally, his mobility makes up for some of what you're losing in the short game.

    The fact that he is making throws the other 2 can't make is enough for me. For an accurate comparison he would need a year in the league and a start to match Peterson, or several years of professional grooming to compare with McCarron. He's already ahead of them in ability as a rookie, and needing to improve touch/accuracy on short throws as your biggest concern with such a raw prospect... That's pretty damn good. If he is going to have a hole, that's exactly where I want it.

  12. #87
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    Last edited by Jack the Ripper; 08-10-2018 at 12:23 AM.

  13. #88
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    We just have to hope that he can put it together. At the same time we canít act like itís near a guarantee that he does.

    His arm is ridiculous and he can do things most QBs canít, but at the same time he struggles with things that good QBs do.

  14. #89
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    Basically this...

    Last edited by smood999; 08-10-2018 at 12:45 AM.

  15. #90
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    In response to the tweet, weíre talking about a kid taking his first snaps in the NFL. Peterman was a far cry from the guy that made a disastrous debut in LA. Geez.

    Bills fans have reason to like what they saw tonight. Nobody thinks heís fail proof, but nearly everyone has been overly critical of him. People were waiting to pick his performance apart before he even stepped on the field.
    Last edited by Jack the Ripper; 08-10-2018 at 01:56 AM.

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