Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 17 of 17 FirstFirst ... 7151617
Results 241 to 253 of 253
  1. #241
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    9,197
    I understand the whole this is my guy belief, I just think that is where Cleveland made their mistake. Falling in love with Mayfield is their mistake.

    In the history of this current Cleveland franchise they have literally busted on every QB they have drafted in the first round. The QB is the most important position on the field and I also get that and I would say take Mayfield first if there was no other QB of comparable quality, or if the Browns didn't have that 4th overall pick.

    They should of realized that the difference in the success of these 4 QB's is likely a coin flip and in my opinion when you have the 1st and 4th overall pick it lowers the value of these QB's for the first pick.

    I think they should not have fallen in love with 1 of these QB and should have taken Barkely 1st and the best available QB at 4. That in my opinion would of been the smart draft move.

  2. #242
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    15,980
    Quote Originally Posted by Plague View Post
    Thats more your point. I am not trying debate which position has a higher bust rate, I am pointing out that you are not taking into consideration the bust rates of RB's when making the statement "you can find a good RB in any round". It's not as easy as just wait til the late rounds and we will find a good RB.

    My point in taking Barkely over Mayfield is that Barkely is the best RB coming out of college in more than a decade, better than Elliott. I don't feel that way about Mayfield. Even if you feel Mayfield is the best QB in the draft, do you feel the difference between him and the other 3 QB's is so great that you would pass on such a dominant RB like Barkely.

    I think the Browns made a mistake, something that can be said pretty much every season since the 1990's.
    This is exactly my take on it as well.

    Also, it's been leaked now that the Giants would have taken Chubb at 2 if Barkley was gone, because they didn't "love" any of the QBs in this class (ironic) and the Jets had Darnold the highest QB on their draft board. Gettleman wasn't trading out and neither were the Jets after trading UP to get a quarterback, so we can stop this ******** talk that Mayfield wouldn't have been there at 4, he 100% would have. The Browns could have gotten both Mayfield and Barkley to build their offense around and Browns being Browns still managed to **** it up.

    And before I hear "the Giants rumor is nonsense", I'll play devils advocate. Let's say NY did take Darnold and the Jets took Mayfield, are you really convinced the gap between Mayfield and Rosen (or Allen, I guess) is that extreme? I sure as hell don't.... I personally think Allen is a scrub but Rosen I think might be the best QB in this class. Cleveland ****ed it up, end of story, no matter how many ways you want to slice it.

  3. #243
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Punta Gorda, FL
    Posts
    27,821
    Somthing to point out with the Browns. The last QB they picked in the top 5 was the only QB they have picked in the top 20 being Tim Couch #1 in 1999.

    The QBs they picked where all the 2nd pick in the 1st round as well.

    2007: 3rd Joe Thomas , 22nd Brady Quinn
    2012: 3rd Trent Richardson, 22nd Brandon Weeden
    2014: 8th Justin Gilbert, 22nd Johnny Manziel
    2016: Had the 2nd pick (Carson Wentz) traded to 15th Corey Coleman
    2017: Had the 12 pick (Deshaun Watson) traded to 25th Jabrill Peppers

    This is why I was 100% for them picking the QB they liked the most, they have bypassed on QBs for way too long.
    Last edited by Wrench; 05-04-2018 at 07:04 PM.

  4. #244
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    15,980
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas_Phin1 View Post
    Challenge accepted...exactly; not a bogus claim at all (Thanks LRizzle).

    And that's true, the team with the other Manning (multi-Pro Bowl Super Bowl winner) can use a good RB. Tyrod Taylor is nowhere near a franchise QB; functional yes, but not one to build a franchise around.

    Again, I get why you are saying everything that you are saying, I just can't agree with you from an organization's standpoint. If the Browns have a bad season with their brand new guard and RB and Buffalo's "throw away QB", then you have failed as an organization. If you lose with your franchise QB, then at least you have a few years to develop him and the team around him. Had they passed on a QB this year, I feel that it would be their only year running the show in Cleveland. What you are saying makes sense...I get it. But no one is going to make that call with your future not secured at QB; not if they like employment. Guess we have to agree to disagree on this one.
    Yeah, you can't pass on a QB at either 1 or 4, but they didn't have to take Mayfield first (see my post above). They did go with the "safe" route, you are absolutely right cause hindsight is obviously 20/20 and they don't know for sure Mayfield would drop to 4 but as I said above, I really don't think the drop off from Mayfield to Rosen is worth giving up a generational talent like Barkley.

    And yes, T-Rich was very highly regarded coming out of college but his problem wasn't with his ability. His head wasn't on straight, and he was on a completely dysfunctional team, that's why he's out of the league. As long as you don't get that with Barkley, you'll be fine.

  5. #245
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    6,490
    Quote Originally Posted by StayOnBoard View Post
    Yeah, you can't pass on a QB at either 1 or 4, but they didn't have to take Mayfield first (see my post above). They did go with the "safe" route, you are absolutely right cause hindsight is obviously 20/20 and they don't know for sure Mayfield would drop to 4 but as I said above, I really don't think the drop off from Mayfield to Rosen is worth giving up a generational talent like Barkley.

    And yes, T-Rich was very highly regarded coming out of college but his problem wasn't with his ability. His head wasn't on straight, and he was on a completely dysfunctional team, that's why he's out of the league. As long as you don't get that with Barkley, you'll be fine.
    LOL I'm literally arguing with you through my computer screen saying that it's easy to make that call when hindsight is 20/20...you beat me to it.

    Yes, it is true that they could have had both players...but they didn't know that. Giants were talking the possibility of a QB, we knew the Jets were (and were rumored to love Mayfield), there was talks of teams moving up to take a QB at 2 if the Giants didn't, so they went the "safe route". Was the it "best route"? Probably not. But you don't know that at the time. Again, if I'm the GM of the Browns and I interview Mayfield and Rosen, love Mayfield, and can't stand Rosen, then saying that I should just wait to see who's there at 4 because there isn't much difference between the two...well of course there is. Maybe not on paper, but again, they actually are dealing with human beings here. Humans that they know and have spoken/worked with. I get the theory that you are offering, but as I've said multiple times, we don't know isht compared to the people that actually live this stuff and do it for a living. It's all hypothetical coming from us...nothing loss or gained either way. For them, the wrong call means their kids have to change schools, they have to sell their homes, they lose friends, get a divorce, etc... Wrong or no (in retrospect), I can't blame the Browns for doing anything that they did with that first pick. The 4th pick? That's a different story.

    And for Richardson, I always read that he had a severe issue with finding holes. That his field vision and awareness were awful when playing behind a bad line. He was a God in college because he is a good runner with huge holes to run through. In the pros, the holes weren't there and he apparently couldn't make them. I hate knocking the guy because I'm a huge Bama fan. But my point is still valid. He was the highest rated RB since AP and was possibly going to be the best RB of all time according to many analysts. Instead, he wasn't as good as most 5th round RBs. I just feel that you never know; there are a lot of factors that go into a player's success. Barkley may be the best thing ever...or may just be another RB. I just felt that the Browns were going to be the last team to roll those dice again and take a RB #1 and lose out on their choice of QB. That move would have been a ridiculous gamble IMO...without hindsight that is.

  6. #246
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    9,197
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrench View Post
    Somthing to point out with the Browns. The last QB they picked in the top 5 was the only QB they have picked in the top 20 being Tim Couch #1 in 1999.

    The QBs they picked where all the 2nd pick in the 1st round as well.

    2007: 3rd Joe Thomas , 22nd Brady Quinn
    2012: 3rd Trent Richardson, 22nd Brandon Weeden
    2014: 8th Justin Gilbert, 22nd Johnny Manziel
    2016: Had the 2nd pick (Carson Wentz) traded to 15th Corey Coleman
    2017: Had the 12 pick (Deshaun Watson) traded to 25th Jabrill Peppers

    This is why I was 100% for them picking the QB they liked the most, they have bypassed on QBs for way too long.
    Since they also had the 4th pick they wouldn't be passing on a QB in the 1st round, and whichever QB they drafted at #4 would still possibly be the best QB in the draft. I am a firm believer the QB is by far the most important position on the field, its been my argument about Tannehill for multiple seasons. My argument in this case is falling in love with 1 of these 4 QB's that you have become blind to the fact that all 4 of these QB's are basically a coin flip, and you basically could of had the best of both worlds but the Browns are the Browns and I believe in 4 seasons the Browns will look back at mistake #1000.

  7. #247
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Punta Gorda, FL
    Posts
    27,821
    Browns didn't see it that way and I agree with them. I thought Mayfield seemed to be the best QB of the four, Rosen the only other that I liked. Rosen had a big mesh issue and alot of teams hated his attitude so I can see why teams didn't draft him. Allen has big accuracy issues and Darnald has turnover issues.

    Mayfield's only real knock was his height but many QBs have said that it's overrated thing people and teams look at. Hasselbeck said before when people brought that up that him at 6'4 had problems seeing over OL at times. Baker's LT was 6'8 and his RT was 6'4 and he didn't have any issues with it. I can't find the stat but I rember someone bring up the point he had fewer batted passes last season than Ryan Tannehill did his rookie year. Height really doesn't matter if you know the passing lanes like Brees has done fore years.

  8. #248
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    9,197
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrench View Post
    Browns didn't see it that way and I agree with them. I thought Mayfield seemed to be the best QB of the four, Rosen the only other that I liked. Rosen had a big mesh issue and alot of teams hated his attitude so I can see why teams didn't draft him. Allen has big accuracy issues and Darnald has turnover issues.

    Mayfield's only real knock was his height but many QBs have said that it's overrated thing people and teams look at. Hasselbeck said before when people brought that up that him at 6'4 had problems seeing over OL at times. Baker's LT was 6'8 and his RT was 6'4 and he didn't have any issues with it. I can't find the stat but I rember someone bring up the point he had fewer batted passes last season than Ryan Tannehill did his rookie year. Height really doesn't matter if you know the passing lanes like Brees has done fore years.

    Obviously the Browns felt that way and I personally feel it was a big draft mistake. It will take a good 4 seasons before we can evaluate this situation.

    Whole different game at the NFL level. I don't know if Mayfield will be able to succeed at the NFL level because of his height but it will be a negative. NFL players will be bigger, faster, and smarter than college players. Mayfield is taller than both Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, and Doug Flutie, three QB's that were able to be successful at the NFL level, so I am not going to say Mayfield will fail because of his size, but he will likely have to make some adjustments to overcome his lack of height at the NFL level to succeed.

    If was a problem for Hassellbeck it will be a bigger problem for Mayfield as he will have 3 more inches he needs to throw over.
    Last edited by Plague; 05-04-2018 at 09:24 PM.

  9. #249
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Punta Gorda, FL
    Posts
    27,821
    Hassellbeck was making the point that every QB deals with it, some just understand the windows and know how to deal with it better. Everything Baker did in college didn't show otherwise but we will see. I'm happy he went to the Browns and not the Jets. Darnold to them and Allen to the Bills was best case scenario for us. Both of them both have the lowest floor. Seen alot of people say Baker's floor was Jeff Garcia and ceiling was Brees.

  10. #250
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    9,197
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrench View Post
    Hassellbeck was making the point that every QB deals with it, some just understand the windows and know how to deal with it better. Everything Baker did in college didn't show otherwise but we will see. I'm happy he went to the Browns and not the Jets. Darnold to them and Allen to the Bills was best case scenario for us. Both of them both have the lowest floor. Seen alot of people say Baker's floor was Jeff Garcia and ceiling was Brees.
    My opinion would be different if Mayfield was heads above talent wise than any other QB and Barkely had 2 or 3 other RB's of comparable quality. I would say take Mayfield first and the best remaining RB at 4. However Barkely is a incredible talent that is in a elite class and there are 4 QB's that are close in talent so my opinion is what it is.

  11. #251
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    6,490
    Plague, what you are saying is absolutely true. I'm just saying I get why they did what they did. As you mentioned, 4 years from now, we will have to reevaluate. From a talent standpoint, they could have had the best of both worlds with Barkley and Mayfield...they just protected themselves to ensure they got the QB that they wanted. They played safe and it may come back to bite them. He better come in and shine, or they may be regretting that decision for years to come. Time will have to tell on this one.

    As for Mayfield, I don't think his height will be a big concern. It's like Russel Wilson said a few years ago; "I've always been this tall". Meaning he learned to play the game at that height and can do it just fine. There are taller players that still struggle to find passing lanes/holes and even taller ones that see them with ease and then have mechanical issues because they are too long. Everyone is going to have something that they have to address at the next level.

    Most considered Mayfield as the most accurate passer (shown to be the most important aspect for a QB in the transition successfully to the NFL) and had the leadership skills to go with it. He is a fiery competitor, is driven to always improve, and is beloved by those around him. People thought Rosen was a douche, Allen inaccurate, and Darnold had turnover issues (though he was seen as the "#2 behind Mayfield" in most categories). So if you are looking for an accurate-armed field general, then there are only two of those in this class according to some analysts. We may see there not being a big difference between the four QBs, but in reality, there could be a huge difference when you account for personality to go with their accuracy (or lack thereof). I have to agree with Wrench though, I personally believe that Rosen and Mayfield were the two best in the class (at least on the field). Darnold never impressed me and Allen is going to be a project. Glad they ended up in the AFC East of the top 5 guys.

  12. #252
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northeast Pennsylvania
    Posts
    14,383
    I thought the Browns should have went with Barkley and Josh Allen. I had Allen rated above both Baker and Darnold and thought Allen fit the team more than Rosen did. despite all the criticism of Allen during the process I never stopped thinking he was great. I have Baker and Darnold as the most likely of the R1 QBs to bust and I thought Barkley should have been the first pick because I already think he is the best RB in the league and has the potential to go down as the best ever above Barry. he is like Barry Sanders and LT combined


    also I just remembered Francois is still in college so give me him and Fant next year

  13. #253
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    6,490
    Quote Originally Posted by tunnicliffderek View Post
    I thought the Browns should have went with Barkley and Josh Allen. I had Allen rated above both Baker and Darnold and thought Allen fit the team more than Rosen did. despite all the criticism of Allen during the process I never stopped thinking he was great. I have Baker and Darnold as the most likely of the R1 QBs to bust and I thought Barkley should have been the first pick because I already think he is the best RB in the league and has the potential to go down as the best ever above Barry. he is like Barry Sanders and LT combined


    also I just remembered Francois is still in college so give me him and Fant next year
    I think Allen has the highest ceiling of the bunch, but not the most "NFL ready". There's no doubt to me that he was the biggest gamble of the group, but I felt like he was a worthy gamble. I know there's people on here that hate Allen, but I honestly believe that he's going to be solid+. I hate that he'll be playing for Buffalo, but I think his best fit is with a cold weather team (like the Browns). I guess we'll have a chance to watch his development twice a year.

    I guess I get the love for Barkley, but the "best in the NFL" before he's ever played a down? Yes, he was very good in a solid conference in college. He has the makings to be great. But he's never done anything at the next level. I'm tempering my expectations of him until he at least gets a season under his belt. I expect that he'll do well next season. But will he be the best back in the league? I personally doubt it; there's too many factors to consider (line play, scheme, effectiveness of passing game, learning the playbook, health, level of defensive skill/competition, etc...). I don't see any reason why any of those things should be too daunting, but they do all cater to his overall success. Let's give him a minute to settle in before dumping the weight of the world on his shoulders.

Page 17 of 17 FirstFirst ... 7151617

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •