Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 15 of 17 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 LastLast
Results 211 to 225 of 253
  1. #211
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    276
    For the record. If I was the Browns I would've e went #1 Barkley #4 Nelson or traded out for a nice haul of picks if there was an offer to be had.

    Roll with T Mobile for a year or 2 while building up the running game.

  2. #212
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,905
    Quote Originally Posted by poppapuh86 View Post
    Completely disagree.

    Browns should've taken Barkley #1 then a qb at #4. You take the best player in the draft #1 and whichever qb at #4. IF Dorsey swigns and misses on Mayfield then the drfat blew up in his face. If he takes Barkley #1 and a qb #4 then he can justify the qb not succeeding. But you also have a STUD rb to take pressure off of your young qb.

    This is why the Giants took Barkley. He will extend Eli's career another 3 years.

    Why do you think the Cowboys had so much success 2 years ago? Had a damn good rb so Dak didn't throw that much. Last year no Zeke for a while and Dak threw wayyyyyy too many times.
    Disagree with this also. Cowboys were terrible because they went from a very good/great RB to Alfred Morris and Rod Smith - big dropoff ... Browns now have Carlos Hyde, Duke Johnson and Chubb. That's tons of depth, talent and healthy competition. Cowboys also lost Leary on the O-Line and were trotting out an older/slower Dez Bryant (who still hasn't been signed), old man Witten (on the verge of retirement) and Cole Beasley. But yea, they lost because of Zeke. They went 3-3 without Zeke, hardly a season ender. It's not like they went 1-5 without him and 8-2 with him. Y'all are just lost in Fantasy Football land.
    BRUH

  3. #213
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    276
    Quote Originally Posted by LRizzle View Post
    Disagree with this also. Cowboys were terrible because they went from a very good/great RB to Alfred Morris and Rod Smith - big dropoff ... Browns now have Carlos Hyde, Duke Johnson and Chubb. That's tons of depth, talent and healthy competition. Cowboys also lost Leary on the O-Line and were trotting out an older/slower Dez Bryant (who still hasn't been signed), old man Witten (on the verge of retirement) and Cole Beasley. But yea, they lost because of Zeke. They went 3-3 without Zeke, hardly a season ender. It's not like they went 1-5 without him and 8-2 with him. Y'all are just lost in Fantasy Football land.
    Did you read my post?

    Dallas won because of Zeke and I'll add the o line too.

    If you take the best of Hyde, Johnson, and Chubb and mold that into a rb you get Barkley.
    You're helping me make my point!

    You also contradicted yourself in your post.

  4. #214
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    6,490
    Quote Originally Posted by LRizzle View Post
    The voice of reason finally. Without a good oline doesn't matter who your RB is. Gurley two years ago was pretty damn meh. Everyone gives McVay a ton of credit but how about the fact that they added a top LT in Whitworth and a C in Sullivan to the O-Line which improved their stats and grades overall tremendously. And what happens? Gurley was an MVP candidate. One hand washes the other. I still remember McFadden tearing up the league behind that stud Cowboys O-Line. Then they get Elliot and it's all like OMG! I mean, he's definitely good, zero doubt about that. He definitely helped turn the team around but he wasn't THE reason. What happened to Trent Richardson (who was rated by most scouts probably top 3 with Barkley and AP) on bad teams with bad O-Lines like Browns and Colts (he also got fat but that was later in his career). Scheme is also important. Ajayi was amazing for us but he started frustrating Gase. There's little doubt to me that Ajayi is a pro-bowl type talent (we probably win 8-9 games in 2016 instead of 10 without Ajayi), just that Drake fits what Gase wants to do better and it showed last year. Browns were fine taking Mayfield, I just would've taken Chubb DE instead of Ward. They must think Ward is the next Lattimore. I also read that they were very low on Allen and wanted nothing to do with him. And they really like Rosen on tape but really didn't like him as a person during interviews and interactions with him and didn't want to draft him. They wanted either Darnold or Mayfield and they were not going to risk taking a RB 1st and then letting those two QBs get taken 2nd and 3rd and be left with someone they didn't like at 4th. Their VP was pretty open about it, you can find the article about him talking about their decision anywhere.
    Exactly. I think we can use our line as an example. Once we had our healthy offensive line in place, both of our RBs were killing it. Improved line play + scheme = successful RB. The first half of the year Ajayi was at the top of the list for RBs across the league. He left and the new #1 RB in football? Kenyon Drake. I'm not saying that Ajayi isn't great and Drake isn't great. But it seems strange that once our line started playing well, we had (arguably) the two best RBs in football. Did we just luck out and take the two best players at their position in those drafts (which neither were first rounders)? Or did we scheme well to go with our better line play? I'd say it's the latter of the two. That being the case, do you really spend a #1 pick on a RB (especially if your line is questionable...and your star LT just retired)? In my opinion...oh God no!

    You will just never be able to convince me that a good RB is more important than who you have under center. Again, it is a WONDERFUL addition, but nearly all teams succeed and fail according to the results of their QB. You don't take a RB #1 and then randomly see who you'll have under center several picks later. I can't think of a move that would get you fired quicker as a GM. You ABSOLUTELY get YOUR GUY to run the team, and then you find a guy to run for your team when you can. If it's true that they hated Allen and then were stuck with him at 4, then that would be the most catastrophic thing that could happen from the organizations' stand point. You can take all the RB you need in a later round...we seem to do it just fine all the time. But what you can't do, is consistently find upper echelon QBs later in the draft. Mediocre RBs can be Pro Bowl players behind a great line in the right system. Missing out on your QB when you don't have the rest of your system in place is ludicrous IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by poppapuh86 View Post
    For the record. If I was the Browns I would've e went #1 Barkley #4 Nelson or traded out for a nice haul of picks if there was an offer to be had.

    Roll with T Mobile for a year or 2 while building up the running game.
    So you would have just skipped your franchise QB with the #1 pick in what some call "the best QB class in a decade"...to land a RB and a guard? The two least valued positions in football after kickers and long snappers? That sounds like something the Browns would do...and that's why they are the #1 pick every single year.
    Last edited by Vegas_Phin1; 05-02-2018 at 07:30 PM.

  5. #215
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Punta Gorda, FL
    Posts
    27,821
    RBs can be found anywhere

    Kareem Hunt 3rd
    Todd Gurley 10th overall
    Le'Veon Bell 2nd
    LeSean McCoy 2nd
    Mark Ingram 28th overall
    Jordan Howard 5th
    Melvin Gordon 15th overall
    Leonard Fournette 4th overall
    C.J. Anderson undrafted
    Ezekiel Elliott 4th overall
    Alex Collins 5th
    Frank Gore 3rd
    Carlos Hyde 2nd
    Dion Lewis 5th
    Marshawn Lynch 12th overall

    So in the 15 last year for rushing yards, only 6 where 1st round picks only two in the top 5.

    You can't tell me Dallas would not be a better team if they drafted Jalen Ramsey and then Derrick Henry in the 2nd. #1 elite shutdown CB way more valuable than a RB who have a much shorter shelf life and higher injury risk.

  6. #216
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    9,197
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas_Phin1 View Post
    It's true that Dallas improved dramatically due to their RB. But what about their offensive line? I'd say that the fact that they have the best line in the NFL is the reason why a stud RB is going to be such a difference. Give me a stud RB behind a isht line, and you have a mediocre offensive weapon IMO. A great RB is the icing on the cake...but without cake, it would just be gross.
    The Cowboys had a stud offensive line (4 of the 5 same starters) before Ezekiel and still only won 3 games. The Cowboys didnt perform very well this season without Elliott.
    Last edited by Plague; 05-03-2018 at 01:57 AM.

  7. #217
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    9,197
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrench View Post
    RBs can be found anywhere

    Kareem Hunt 3rd
    Todd Gurley 10th overall
    Le'Veon Bell 2nd
    LeSean McCoy 2nd
    Mark Ingram 28th overall
    Jordan Howard 5th
    Melvin Gordon 15th overall
    Leonard Fournette 4th overall
    C.J. Anderson undrafted
    Ezekiel Elliott 4th overall
    Alex Collins 5th
    Frank Gore 3rd
    Carlos Hyde 2nd
    Dion Lewis 5th
    Marshawn Lynch 12th overall

    So in the 15 last year for rushing yards, only 6 where 1st round picks only two in the top 5.

    You can't tell me Dallas would not be a better team if they drafted Jalen Ramsey and then Derrick Henry in the 2nd. #1 elite shutdown CB way more valuable than a RB who have a much shorter shelf life and higher injury risk.
    If good RBS can be found anywhere why have the Dolphins struggled for so many seasons finding a good RB at the bottom of the draft?

    Just because lower round draft picks have turned out well doesn't mean its easy to find them in the later parts of the draft.

    Below is all the players we drafted after the 4th round since 1992

    Jay Ajayi
    Mike Gillislee
    Jalen Parmlee
    Lex Hillard
    Reagan Maui
    Leonard Henry
    Cecil Collins
    J.J. Johnson
    Jeris Mcphail

    Before Jay Ajayi you have to go back to 1968 and Jim Kiick to find a RB that the Dolphins drafted after the 4th round that had 2000 yards lifetime rushing, only 2 others rushed for over a 1000 lifetime yards Ron Davenport and Leroy Harris.

    My argument isnt that you can or can't find a good RB anywhere in the draft, my argument is Barkely is going to be special. A talent that comes along once a decade. I don't think you pass that up when you also have the 4th overall pick and 4 QB's to choose from. I don't care how much they like Mayfield, you don't pass on Barkely to take Mayfield. You take the best available QB at the 4 spot. The difference between these QB's is debatable.
    Last edited by Plague; 05-03-2018 at 01:58 AM.

  8. #218
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    9,197
    Quote Originally Posted by KodytheKing View Post
    The Eagles and Pat's were even better on Offense then both of the teams you gave and they did it with multiple undrafted RBs. I'm pretty sure Ajayi was the top drafted RB between the two and he was a 4th.

    A good RB is important, I mean Drake obviously helped our offense more than Drake. But the RB position is not only the easiest position to fill but also the easiest to get production from purely from the scheme. Again just look at the Eagles, Pat's or even the Vikings who went fro Dalvin Cook to McKinnon and Murray. Chubb is a great back and they could have gotten someone like Guice even. Hell Cj Anderson is available and all would be better value then drafting Barkley that high.

    Barkley is the 4th highest RB in the NFL right now. Chubb is the 33rd ranked. Value.
    I never said you can't be successful without a good RB. I am saying I think Barkely will be one of the best RB's in the league and a possible hall of fame quality RB and these 4 QB's will be a crap shoot. Anyone on here feel comfortable in saying that Mayfield will be the best of the 4 QB's drafted? I think Barkely is a game changer just like Elliott was with Dallas. I would just as well take a shot with Darnold or Rosen if it means getting Barkely.
    Last edited by Plague; 05-03-2018 at 02:00 AM.

  9. #219
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    9,197
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas_Phin1 View Post
    Exactly. I think we can use our line as an example. Once we had our healthy offensive line in place, both of our RBs were killing it. Improved line play + scheme = successful RB. The first half of the year Ajayi was at the top of the list for RBs across the league. He left and the new #1 RB in football? Kenyon Drake. I'm not saying that Ajayi isn't great and Drake isn't great. But it seems strange that once our line started playing well, we had (arguably) the two best RBs in football. Did we just luck out and take the two best players at their position in those drafts (which neither were first rounders)? Or did we scheme well to go with our better line play? I'd say it's the latter of the two. That being the case, do you really spend a #1 pick on a RB (especially if your line is questionable...and your star LT just retired)? In my opinion...oh God no!

    You will just never be able to convince me that a good RB is more important than who you have under center. Again, it is a WONDERFUL addition, but nearly all teams succeed and fail according to the results of their QB. You don't take a RB #1 and then randomly see who you'll have under center several picks later. I can't think of a move that would get you fired quicker as a GM. You ABSOLUTELY get YOUR GUY to run the team, and then you find a guy to run for your team when you can. If it's true that they hated Allen and then were stuck with him at 4, then that would be the most catastrophic thing that could happen from the organizations' stand point. You can take all the RB you need in a later round...we seem to do it just fine all the time. But what you can't do, is consistently find upper echelon QBs later in the draft. Mediocre RBs can be Pro Bowl players behind a great line in the right system. Missing out on your QB when you don't have the rest of your system in place is ludicrous IMO.



    So you would have just skipped your franchise QB with the #1 pick in what some call "the best QB class in a decade"...to land a RB and a guard? The two least valued positions in football after kickers and long snappers? That sounds like something the Browns would do...and that's why they are the #1 pick every single year.
    I wouldnt take a Guard with the 4th pick. However the last 4 QB's they took in the 1st round with 1 of them going 1st overall turned out badly. Tim Couch, Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, and Johnny Manziel. Best QB the Browns ever drafted in the 1st round was Mike Phipps.

    I don't think Baker Mayfield is a sure thing to be a successful QB.
    Last edited by Plague; 05-03-2018 at 02:03 AM.

  10. #220
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    6,490
    Quote Originally Posted by Plague View Post
    The Cowboys had a stud offensive line (4 of the 5 same starters) before Ezekiel and still only won 3 games. The Cowboys didnt perform very well this season without Elliott.
    I'm not saying that the line is why Dallas was successful; I'm saying that the line makes the RB more successful (and that lead to their overall success as a team). I'm not in any way saying that Zeke isn't awesome for the Cowboys. I'm just saying that if the line sucked, then Zeke would be solid (but not "great")...which adds less to the team's overall success (therefore making the high pick of a RB less valuable).

    And I still just can't agree that you sit back and take whoever falls to you at 4 for QB. In your mind, the players are interchangeable...all will be good or bad, only time will tell. I get that. But from an organization's standpoint, you have the pick of the litter and you click with one of them. You want "that guy" as the face of your franchise, selling tickets, selling jerseys, being on the news, being a local hero...that is what a franchise QB is. I'm not saying that an RB can't also be those things, but how often do you have a bad QB on a losing team, and the seats are selling out every weekend to see the RB have a solid game (with a loss)?

    QB is what makes or breaks a team. If you have an awesome team/system already in place, then a lesser QB can still be a winner (like the Eagles). But if you have no QB, bad line, sketchy defense, and then draft "the best RB of all time", you still have a 4-12 team IMO. They drafted Trent Richardson #4 overall just a handful of years ago. He was being heralded as "the best RB since Jim Brown"...maybe the "best ever". And they used their high draft pick to get him. What happened? Biggest draft mistake in decades for the Browns. I promise you that is still fresh in their minds as well.

  11. #221
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    276
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas_Phin1 View Post
    Exactly. I think we can use our line as an example. Once we had our healthy offensive line in place, both of our RBs were killing it. Improved line play + scheme = successful RB. The first half of the year Ajayi was at the top of the list for RBs across the league. He left and the new #1 RB in football? Kenyon Drake. I'm not saying that Ajayi isn't great and Drake isn't great. But it seems strange that once our line started playing well, we had (arguably) the two best RBs in football. Did we just luck out and take the two best players at their position in those drafts (which neither were first rounders)? Or did we scheme well to go with our better line play? I'd say it's the latter of the two. That being the case, do you really spend a #1 pick on a RB (especially if your line is questionable...and your star LT just retired)? In my opinion...oh God no!

    You will just never be able to convince me that a good RB is more important than who you have under center. Again, it is a WONDERFUL addition, but nearly all teams succeed and fail according to the results of their QB. You don't take a RB #1 and then randomly see who you'll have under center several picks later. I can't think of a move that would get you fired quicker as a GM. You ABSOLUTELY get YOUR GUY to run the team, and then you find a guy to run for your team when you can. If it's true that they hated Allen and then were stuck with him at 4, then that would be the most catastrophic thing that could happen from the organizations' stand point. You can take all the RB you need in a later round...we seem to do it just fine all the time. But what you can't do, is consistently find upper echelon QBs later in the draft. Mediocre RBs can be Pro Bowl players behind a great line in the right system. Missing out on your QB when you don't have the rest of your system in place is ludicrous IMO.



    So you would have just skipped your franchise QB with the #1 pick in what some call "the best QB class in a decade"...to land a RB and a guard? The two least valued positions in football after kickers and long snappers? That sounds like something the Browns would do...and that's why they are the #1 pick every single year.
    I absolutely would've taken Barkley #1 and Nelson #4.

    All these qbs have big questions marks and they were pushed up to the top of the draft while elite talent fell.

    Baker Mayfield- size
    Sam Darnold - way too many turnovers at USC
    Josh Allen - completion %, accuracy and didn't feast on lower level competition
    Josh Rosen - concussion and other injury history. Acted like a complete d bag after drafted

    So I take 2 players with incredibly high floors, Barkley and Nelson, who most are saying will be All-Pros early in their careers.



    Tyrod Taylor is no slouch.

  12. #222
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    276
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas_Phin1 View Post
    I'm not saying that the line is why Dallas was successful; I'm saying that the line makes the RB more successful (and that lead to their overall success as a team). I'm not in any way saying that Zeke isn't awesome for the Cowboys. I'm just saying that if the line sucked, then Zeke would be solid (but not "great")...which adds less to the team's overall success (therefore making the high pick of a RB less valuable).

    And I still just can't agree that you sit back and take whoever falls to you at 4 for QB. In your mind, the players are interchangeable...all will be good or bad, only time will tell. I get that. But from an organization's standpoint, you have the pick of the litter and you click with one of them. You want "that guy" as the face of your franchise, selling tickets, selling jerseys, being on the news, being a local hero...that is what a franchise QB is. I'm not saying that an RB can't also be those things, but how often do you have a bad QB on a losing team, and the seats are selling out every weekend to see the RB have a solid game (with a loss)?

    QB is what makes or breaks a team. If you have an awesome team/system already in place, then a lesser QB can still be a winner (like the Eagles). But if you have no QB, bad line, sketchy defense, and then draft "the best RB of all time", you still have a 4-12 team IMO. They drafted Trent Richardson #4 overall just a handful of years ago. He was being heralded as "the best RB since Jim Brown"...maybe the "best ever". And they used their high draft pick to get him. What happened? Biggest draft mistake in decades for the Browns. I promise you that is still fresh in their minds as well.
    Vegas Phin1 - I challenge you to check and see who was on the Browns roster when they drafted T Rich and compare that roster to the one they had before the draft last week. The Browns aren't far off from competing and they are in a heck of a better situation than Miami is. Completely different front office so drafting T Rich is not fresh in their minds.

    Dallas o line is great. Dallas o line has helped make Zeke a border line All-Pro. Dallas great o line, Zeke a border line All-Pro had made Dak succeed at play action giving him 1 on 1 matchups while the defense is stacking the box for Zeke.

  13. #223
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Punta Gorda, FL
    Posts
    27,821
    Quote Originally Posted by Plague View Post
    If good RBS can be found anywhere why have the Dolphins struggled for so many seasons finding a good RB at the bottom of the draft?

    Just because lower round draft picks have turned out well doesn't mean its easy to find them in the later parts of the draft.

    Below is all the players we drafted after the 4th round since 1992

    Jay Ajayi
    Mike Gillislee
    Jalen Parmlee
    Lex Hillard
    Reagan Maui
    Leonard Henry
    Cecil Collins
    J.J. Johnson
    Jeris Mcphail

    Before Jay Ajayi you have to go back to 1968 and Jim Kiick to find a RB that the Dolphins drafted after the 4th round that had 2000 yards lifetime rushing, only 2 others rushed for over a 1000 lifetime yards Ron Davenport and Leroy Harris.

    My argument isnt that you can or can't find a good RB anywhere in the draft, my argument is Barkely is going to be special. A talent that comes along once a decade. I don't think you pass that up when you also have the 4th overall pick and 4 QB's to choose from. I don't care how much they like Mayfield, you don't pass on Barkely to take Mayfield. You take the best available QB at the 4 spot. The difference between these QB's is debatable.
    You can't go that far back now, league has changed since then. RBs had alot more value and where drafted as such. With rule changes and in a more pass happy league RBs have much lesser value. I just showed you the current landscape of where the best RBs where drafted and it shows you don't need to draft one high. If the Browns had a huge need a RB like the Giants then I could see your reasoning but they signed Hyde who isn't elite but can handle the job. They also have a elite pass catching RB in Duke and did draft a RB in Chubb, they have plenty at RB. They have had 25 different starting QBs don't **** around and just take BPA lol take the one you like the best it's by far the biggest spot on the field.

  14. #224
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    9,197
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrench View Post
    You can't go that far back now, league has changed since then. RBs had alot more value and where drafted as such. With rule changes and in a more pass happy league RBs have much lesser value. I just showed you the current landscape of where the best RBs where drafted and it shows you don't need to draft one high. If the Browns had a huge need a RB like the Giants then I could see your reasoning but they signed Hyde who isn't elite but can handle the job. They also have a elite pass catching RB in Duke and did draft a RB in Chubb, they have plenty at RB. They have had 25 different starting QBs don't **** around and just take BPA lol take the one you like the best it's by far the biggest spot on the field.
    I guess we will see how Barkely does and in a few years we can compare the 4 QB's to one another. I personally think the Browns made a mistake and that will play out over time. I understand about the importance of a franchise QB, I don't think Mayfield is a sure thing or even better than the other 3 QB's. I do think Barkely is heads above all other RB's and will make a considerable difference for the N.Y. Giants assuming he stays healthy.

    I think you are looking at the RB situation with blinders. You only see the RB's that succeed and not all the ones who failed.

  15. #225
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    9,197
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas_Phin1 View Post
    I'm not saying that the line is why Dallas was successful; I'm saying that the line makes the RB more successful (and that lead to their overall success as a team). I'm not in any way saying that Zeke isn't awesome for the Cowboys. I'm just saying that if the line sucked, then Zeke would be solid (but not "great")...which adds less to the team's overall success (therefore making the high pick of a RB less valuable).

    And I still just can't agree that you sit back and take whoever falls to you at 4 for QB. In your mind, the players are interchangeable...all will be good or bad, only time will tell. I get that. But from an organization's standpoint, you have the pick of the litter and you click with one of them. You want "that guy" as the face of your franchise, selling tickets, selling jerseys, being on the news, being a local hero...that is what a franchise QB is. I'm not saying that an RB can't also be those things, but how often do you have a bad QB on a losing team, and the seats are selling out every weekend to see the RB have a solid game (with a loss)?

    QB is what makes or breaks a team. If you have an awesome team/system already in place, then a lesser QB can still be a winner (like the Eagles). But if you have no QB, bad line, sketchy defense, and then draft "the best RB of all time", you still have a 4-12 team IMO. They drafted Trent Richardson #4 overall just a handful of years ago. He was being heralded as "the best RB since Jim Brown"...maybe the "best ever". And they used their high draft pick to get him. What happened? Biggest draft mistake in decades for the Browns. I promise you that is still fresh in their minds as well.
    Browns have had the pick of the litter before. They took Tim Couch first overall. How many jerseys you think Tim Couch is selling. I apparently see the situation different than you. I don't think Mayfield is any better than the other 3 QB's they passed on or is he a sure thing. I however do think Barkely is a franchise changing RB that you can't pass up to take Mayfield over Darnold, Rosen, or Allen .

Page 15 of 17 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •