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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELTICS4LYFE View Post
    Well I think Rozier stock will be very high this offseason and Iím not a number guy but if possible....

    Horford/Rozay/filler player(s)/3 firsts for AD


    Resign Smart Baynes and.....IT(think his stock has dropped)

    Kyrie/IT
    Brown/Smart
    Hayward/Semi
    Tatum/Morris
    AD/Baynes

    ....crazy team but I think it actually sounds doable, Iím sure someone will correct me on the numbers lol
    The picks are understood. Our two potential very good picks and then 1 or maybe 2 C's picks.

    The player combos in such a big deal would have to be Horford and Brown, or perhaps Irving and Brown. I'd love to do Hayward & Brown.

    I would not deal Tatum for blood, money, or AD (since its not a 1 to 1) - don't care what you are offering because it's not worth it. Tatum is off limits now and until he's some old 37 year old - maybe, and therefore Brown HAS to be on deck unless they don't want him, and instead want Horford or Hayward. But the shame of that is Horford is more central (over the remaining time in his contract) to the team than Brown and almost for sure Hayward. Obviously Brown's ceiling could be intense, so dealing is a risk - but AD will be at worst one of the 3 best C's over the next 10 years. They don't grow on trees - guys like him. So you pay.

    Just for fantasy say we deal Hayward, Brown, and 4 #1's for AD and some guy on a rookie deal (a SG hopefully)

    C: AD, Monroe (MLE)
    PF: Horford, Theis, Semi
    SF: Tatum, Morris (probably not, upgrade)
    G: Irving, Rozier, Smart (try and hang onto him because stopping the other teams SG's can be better than a guy who scores a lot but doesn't defend).


    Irving is immense, but, has to be seen as a risk until he proves he isn't, so even though he just posted the best year a Celt PG has had since 1965 (I.E. in my time) - that's 53 years.

    So you keep Rozier and Irving next year to see what you have, if Irving is damaged, don't go for a new deal, and Rozier is the guy. Also if Irving walks, Horford is expiring too, so you'd have AD and Tatum as maxes looking for a 3rd max who you will get because we'll be a top 5 team with the best Coach.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 05-05-2018 at 09:03 PM.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  2. #47
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    AD is not getting moved anytime soon. No sense even talking about it anymore even as a dream-on scenario. It's not happening guys lol

    The only star player who looks to potentially be moving this year is KL. Tatum to me has to be off the table in trade discussions at this point. Kid looks like an absolute STAR in the making. He's a guy I'd gamble on panning out big time. Hold onto him. Yes, I understand that KL is the caliber of player we're hoping that Tatum becomes but with Tatum you get a longer window, more salary flexibility in the next couple of years and less uncertainty with that weird situation.

    Now, I think everything else we have should be on the table for him. I love Brown but again, KL is the caliber of player we want Brown to be. Brown is one of my favorite players because of his intensity and drive but I'd be lying if I said that I think he'll ever be as good as KL is. Rozier is having an amazing stretch but guys have balled out for a playoff run before and regressed. I like him but I'm not sold that this is necessarily the beginning of things to come with him. The LAL/SAC and MEM picks are lottery tickets. Morris is a nice bench guy but very replaceable. Semi and Theis looks like good rotation pieces on dirt cheap deals but not core pieces, just 20 minutes a night type guys. I still see upside in Yabusele even if he didn't play much this year.

    All of those are players/prospects/picks that I'd rather have than not but KL is a top 5 player in the game so if you can consolidate some combination of them into KL then have to do it if you're Ainge IMO.

    But anyway, as-is we're already pretty well set going into next year even without a "big move" for a superstar.

    Kyrie / Rozier
    Brown
    Hayward / Semi / Nader
    Tatum / Morris / Yabusele
    Horford / Theis

    Combined salary of those 11 guys is $107,340,664. The luxury tax line is expected to be about $123M, which gives us $15,659,366 of spending room under the tax. This is NOT cap space so it's not like we can just get whatever we want. But it does leave room for some depth improvements without hurting Wyc's wallet too much.

    Not sure how 2 way deals work so maybe Jabari Bird and Kadeem Allen are under team control too.

    We also have a 1st round pick at #27. The rookie scale amount for that pick is $1,367,000 and he'll get 120% of it like all rookies do, which totals up to $1,640,400.

    We have bird rights on Smart that let us pay him anything up to the max. Remember, for tax purposes it's the first year salary that counts. So if he gets $10M year but it's backloaded so he has a salary of $8M next year, it's the $8M that counts for the tax.

    We have non-bird rights on Baynes that let us pay him up to 120% of this year's salary with 5% annual raises off of that. Off of his $4.378M salary this year that comes out to $5.1936M, which is essentially the equivalent of a taxpayer's MLE deal (see below).

    We have the actual MLE. If we cheap out in other areas we can use the full amount (was $8.406M last year and should go up a small percentage this year). If we go over the luxury tax we're reduced to the tax payer's MLE which was $5.192M and will similarly have a percentage increase this year.

    We also have the bi-annual exception, which was $3.29M last year and will also see a percentage increase.

    Then of course we have minimum deals.

    We're going to have to go hard into the tax when Kyrie's extension comes due next year. Heck, even if we let him walk to keep Rozier instead at a cheaper number we're still looking at the tax. Fortunately, as Brown and Tatum come due for extensions Horford and Hayward expire so we get some offset there to still be in the tax but not have to keep going deeper and deeper into it.

    With the repeater tax penalties I think it behooves us to stay under the tax for one more year. Should be very doable. Might come down to a Smart vs. Morris decision depending on what we do otherwise (i.e. if we just keep Smart but let Baynes go than Morris can probably stay). I like Morris for the physical toughness and difficult shot making ability he brings. The latter, as Oakmont has pointed out, might become more marginalized with Kyrie/Hayward back though. I don't think he's going to be valued much higher than his current MLE type salary though which makes him a candidate to keep long-term though as reasonably priced and system-familiar depth.

    There's also the possibility of smaller trades - doesn't have to be Leonard. I mentioned Myles Turner earlier. His development seems to have stalled in IND and they have Sabonis who they like at the 5. Maybe they love Rozier (they wanted him in the rumored PG talks last year and he would seem to be a great fit next to Oladipo as a capable on ball/off ball PG on offense and good on ball defender). Turner is the type of shot blocking while also 3 point shooting center I think Stevens would love. Turner is an RFA like Rozier next year. While it might not make sense for us to pay Rozier because we have Kyrie it might not make sense for them to sign him since they like Sabonis better. We have no young long-term center and they have no young long-term starting PG. So maybe there's a match there. With Turner being a FA it might be too much payroll stress for us.

    Another intriguing name for me is Dewayne Dedmon in ATL. He brings the defense/rebounding Baynes does except he also has a consistent 3 point shot. Baynes is showing it a little bit lately but Dedmon did it a full year and is a legit threat from there now. Salary wise he makes $6.3M next year if he takes his player option - Yabu/Nader would work salary wise. I think he'd be a really good fit here that we could probably get for spare parts and non-premium picks. Basically consolidate some back of the roster pieces into legit rotation pieces that improve us.

    We need to always be on the lookout for the next "big move" because star power wins out in the NBA but we have a good amount of it and some potential for it. We have a deep roster of role players too. So it's just a matter of making the pieces fit right long-term salary wise and on court. Lots of options for us to make moves - big, medium or small.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  3. #48
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    Agreed on the Pels not trading AD... They need to be smart in the off-season with FA acquisitions since they have no picks in the draft...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  4. #49
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    Can't we just keep our team and make no trades and see this team grow? We have the talent....just need to draft a big

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by corky831 View Post
    Can't we just keep our team and make no trades and see this team grow? We have the talent....just need to draft a big
    I think itís unlikely we keep the same team. Iím not expecting anything major other than keeping an eye on the Kawhi situation but I donít foresee him coming at a cost Ainge likes. I expect weíll work to stay under the tax one more year and thatís going to create a tough choice or two though. And then we have to consider the long term future of some guys too and if it makes sense to ďcash inĒ now.

    Most regular season rotations are 10 deep. Id be shocked if our top 10 are all guys that were here this year. Iíd say probably 1-3 guys come from outside and part of that might be a trade or two.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I think itís unlikely we keep the same team. Iím not expecting anything major other than keeping an eye on the Kawhi situation but I donít foresee him coming at a cost Ainge likes. I expect weíll work to stay under the tax one more year and thatís going to create a tough choice or two though. And then we have to consider the long term future of some guys too and if it makes sense to ďcash inĒ now.

    Most regular season rotations are 10 deep. Id be shocked if our top 10 are all guys that were here this year. Iíd say probably 1-3 guys come from outside and part of that might be a trade or two.
    I agree since Horford, Kyrie and Hayward played a total of 5min together I don't see any big changes...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  7. #52
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    if we want AD, perhaps a Kyrie + Brown trade might get it done?

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever35 View Post
    I agree since Horford, Kyrie and Hayward played a total of 5min together I don't see any big changes...
    I donít think that has much to do with it. Ainge has shown he doesnít get emotionally attached. He isnít going to sit around and ponder what could have been this year and keep everyone just to see. If thereís a ďbig moveĒ to be made st a price he likes then history shows heíll do it. I just donít see that move out there other than maybe Kawhi and I think the cost would be prohibitive.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiG View Post
    if we want AD, perhaps a Kyrie + Brown trade might get it done?
    Lol guys it isnít gonna happen


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Lol guys it isnít gonna happen
    Agreed, thereís about a 0.00001% shot of the pelicans moving AD at this point.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Now I'll cave to the Kawhi Leonard hysteria.

    Using the same outline as above and a trade proposal I've previously mentioned. Here's the "Kawhi offseason"

    Trade
    BOS trades: Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier, Marcus Morris, Guerschon Yabusele, Abdel Nader, LAC and MEM firsts
    BOS receives: Kawhi Leonard

    Similar moves as listed above. Re-sign the following under the same terms
    Marcus Smart
    Greg Monroe
    Shane Larkin

    Our first rounder we're likely to stand pat at our pick. I'm still taking a C

    We have 2 additional roster spots to fill from above so I'll sign 2 Vet wings and a Vet PG

    PG Kyrie Irving
    PG Marcus Smart
    PG Shane Larkin

    PG Vet Free Agent

    Wing Kawhi Leonard
    Wing Gordon Hayward
    Wing Jayson Tatum

    Wing Vet Free Agent
    Wing Vet Free Agent
    Wing Semi Ojeleye
    Wing Kadeem Allen
    Wing Jabari Bird

    C Al Horford
    C Greg Monroe
    C Daniel Theis

    C 2018 rookie first rounder

    This team isn't as deep as the one above. This team also cruises past the luxury tax (about $25M over), but going back to my statement from above, Marcus Morris isn't a guy you go over the luxury tax for - however - Kawhi Leonard is. This will be an expensive group to keep together but the top end talent is greater now and still for the future. With this roster 2 of Kyrie, Kawhi, Gordon and Tatum can be on the court at all times. You can hide players very easily playing alongside talent like that. I would venture to say this is easily a top 2-3 team in the NBA assuming health and would immediately contend for championships. The window will close faster on a group like this but it is more of a certainty to win than the previous projection.
    I wouldnt trade that package for anyone.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by corky831 View Post
    Can't we just keep our team and make no trades and see this team grow? We have the talent....just need to draft a big
    Agreed. Id only make a trade if Kyrie dont accept a deal this summer

  13. #58
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    If we dont trade anyone we could have a big 6 lol.

    KI pg
    GH sg
    JB SF
    JT PF
    AH C

    TR 6man

    Everyone of those guys are capable of throwing up 20 a night and would be a nightmare for anyoffense in the league.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruckus16969 View Post
    I wouldnt trade that package for anyone.
    I would only do that for AD, Durant or Lebron. Certainly not for Leonard.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by corky831 View Post
    Can't we just keep our team and make no trades and see this team grow? We have the talent....just need to draft a big
    We can make no trades, but, FA will mean some changes will be made. DA wont make as many moves as last year for sure. Drafting a big out of our slot means we'll be lucky to get a guy that makes the opening night roster. He'll ikely be a Red Claw.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

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