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  1. #31
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    This draft has me fascinated because its the first draft since the Okafor/KAT draft where there's legit franchise altering big men available. These drafts don't come around often and of course it's the first draft in 4-5 years where we're not picking in the top 10 or anywhere near it.

    I wonder if Danny is considering trying to get into the top 10 (preferably top 5-7 - I'll concede top 1-4 is near impossible with what we'd be willing to give up.)

    Looking at our roster moving forward, and taking out any sort of Leonard splash. We have 2 wings that are young and controllable the next 2-3 years. They're clearly our future. At PG we have Kyrie and Rozier next year - we'll see about long term but in all likelihood Kyrie is here for the long haul and Rozier is TBD.

    Down low though -we have Horford. Whom I love. But he's getting older. He's expensive. outside of him, we don't have much/any youth (Theis, but he's likely a career role player). And that's exactly why this draft is perfect to grab the "big man" of the future to go alongside Kyrie/Brown/Tatum.

    I look at a team like SAC who's ripe for the picking here.

    Their roster is a jumbled mess of underperforming top picks who are cutting into each others playing time and development (to go along with a poor organization). They have the 6th best odds in this lottery. So likely they'll pick 5-7 (right where we want to be). For SAC adding ANOTHER 19-21 year old who's not a top 3 pick has to seem redundant. Just look at their roster

    PG
    Fox (20) - I think he's legit. He's their building block
    Mason (24) - JAG

    SG
    Heild (24) - underperforming
    Bagdonovich (25) - decent rookie year, showed flashes. Got hurt at the end of the year

    SF
    Justin Jackson (23) - Not a great rookie year

    PF
    Giles (20) - Project/coming off injury/Didn't play
    Labissiere (20) - Decent year but long way to go
    Hayes (23) - JAG

    C
    Willie Cauley-Stein (25) - Not a franchise player

    Then they have a few old timers who are not part of their future or anything special in Randolph, Shumpert, Koufus and Temple.

    The last thing this team needs to add is another rookie at pick 5-7. What they do need are some veterans with some upside. They're probably not going to attract much Free Agent wise. I wonder if they consider trading this pick.

    What can we offer? Well...

    -We own their pick next year. With 2018-2019 looking like another dim season on their end, I'm sure they wouldn't mind having this pick back

    -Marcus Smart. He might be too rich for our blood. SAC has plenty of cap space. He's still young. He's a solid vet (a little immature - but hey, SAC never shy away from this type). He's a top notch defender, hustle guy and teammate. He'd be perfect to pair next to Fox. This could be an easy Sign and Trade scenario here.

    We could Sign and Trade Smart plus the SAC pick for their 2018 pick (#5-7). Likely we'd have to throw some sweeteners in there as well because SAC could just offer Smart a contract...Then again we could match it if they did. So maybe we ship them our pick as well and maybe an end of the roster guy - Nader/Semi/Yabu type.

    5-7 should put us in range to snag one of the top big men in this draft
    Ayton - Not going to happen, he's likely going #1
    Bagley - (#3-5)
    Bamba (#3-5)
    Porter Jr. (#3-5) projected to play SF because he's supremely athletic but 6'10 215 is a big man in the NBA today
    Jackson Jr. - (#5-7)
    Carter - Top 10

    We'd also get a decent trade exception for Smarts outgoing salary which could lead to additional trades

    I'd consider it...

    PG Irving/Rozier
    SG Hayward/Brown
    SF Tatum/Morris/Nader
    PF Theis/Ojeleye/Yabusele
    C Horford/#5-7 pick
    Last edited by Oakmont_4; 04-24-2018 at 08:04 PM.

    City of Champions

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Yes this is my point. TRUST me, I would LOVE to trade Hayward+SAC+pieces...In a heart beat. I just know there will be better offers out there. FO's around the league, especially within the bottom feeders like PHO and SAC who have been drafting in the top 5 for years with no end in sight will be very willing to take a gamble on a top 5 player...Even at the risk of losing them after a year. Their gamble will be that with KL in place and another piece (like Jackson or Booker) plus a top pick plus money, AND being able to offer KL a super max, that he'd stay. The only other option is to keep drafting in the top 5 until something goes their way. But why would they expect it to at this point? It hasn't for the past 5 years.



    The Suns have been acquiring assets. Do you see how many 20-23 year old former top picks are on their roster? They can't keep fielding a roster of 20 year olds forever, eventually they need to put their chips on the table and cash them



    That's a possibility as well. If I'm SAS I'd take that deal over the Hayward deal.



    Leverage matters a little. Then again it doesn't, SAS could easily risk losing him and letting him walk. Obviously not ideal so I have no doubt they'll field offers. And when they do...There will be many. And most from desperate bottom feeding teams desperate to get out of the lottery. Whether its PHO or SAC who have been there forever. Whether its NYK or DAL who have owners that love big names and hate being at the bottom of the league. Or a team like DEN that's sick of being good but not real good and need to take a risk to get out of NBA purgatory and either win or at least if they lose him after a year they can actually tank and get into the top 5.
    I might agree if this was ~2016 when Durant signed with the GSW and the NBA was totally demoralized. But the Sixers (and Celtics) have reinvigorated the build-by-draft model. In fact the more people reference "The Process", the more credence that blueprint gets as a viable way of building a good team -- besides just gobbling up FA's.

    Phoenix's first 1st round draft selections the past decade have averaged the 11th pick. If they land #1 or #2, you can bet, dollars to doughnuts, they try and draft the guy that congeals a roster of young talent. Not flush it all away on a major gamble on a 1-2 year rental.

    2017 - #4 (Jackson)
    2016 - #4 (Bender)
    2015 - #13 (Booker)
    2014 - #14 (Warren)
    2013 - #5 (Len)
    2012 - DNP 1st Rd
    2011 - #13 (Morris)
    2010 - DNP 1st Rd
    2009 - #14 (Clark)
    2008 - #15 (Lopez)
    2007 - #24 (Fernandez)

    Something else missing in your analysis is Kawhi's health. Why empty the cupboard on a player that's logged only 9 games? Since the SA situation is shrouded in so much mystery, it's unclear whether Leonard has a legitimate nagging injury or he's a malcontent. Either way, you don't exactly (100%) know what's in store for 2018. If it takes him 5-6 months to return to 2016-17 form, and declines his option and goes to FA, what does that do for the Suns?

    I don't dismiss the idea that bad teams with bad track records having to think outside of the box. But I just cannot envision that trade scenario happening -- in Phoenix or a similar market. And since leverage is the basis of any business negotiation involving finite assets, you bet the contract and games played factors in here.

    But I will concede this on the leverage piece: I think it hinges on Lebron and Cleveland. He could set off dominoes to involve Philly and/or possibly Milwaukee (the Bucks are the better example of what you have in mind with PHO). Still, a healthy Hayward with 5 years of prime left + LAC/SAC + player(s) is on par or better than those offers. And Brown/Tatum would be next level stupid.
    Last edited by elements1985; 04-25-2018 at 04:57 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    PG Irving/Rozier
    SG Hayward/Brown
    SF Tatum/Morris/Nader
    PF Theis/Ojeleye/Yabusele
    C Horford/#5-7 pick
    Nader really intrigues me as a long-term project. The way he moves is like a combo or Tatum and Love (poor man's). Probably never gets the minutes though.
    Last edited by elements1985; 04-25-2018 at 04:33 PM.

  4. #34
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    Stepping away from the Kawhi type talk, I'd push hard to pry Myles Turner away from IND. Seems to be getting outplayed by Sabonis so maybe there's an opportunity there. He'd be AMAZING in the Baynes role IMO. Downgrade in rebounding but overall a really nice fit IMO.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  5. #35
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    No thank you for Tuner, he looked horrible in the Cavs series

  6. #36
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    Ok, it's official. I want nothing to do with chasing KL. Let's just keep growing what we have.

    Bring back Smart ($48M/4)
    Bring back Larkin ($1.5M/1)
    Bring back Baynes ($6M/1)

    Trade Morris (maybe a package with our pick to move up a little) - I think we just need to get something for him before he walks. He won't be happy with his playing time next year with Hayward returning.

    If healthy - our playoff lineup would be something like this.

    Irving (32)/ Rozier (16)
    Brown (16)/Rozier (16)/ Smart (16)
    Hayward (32)/Smart (16)
    Tatum (32)/ Brown (16)
    Horford (32)/ Baynes (10)/ Theis (6)

    If Brown/Tatum/Rozier continue their progression and Hayward and Irving are healthy...This team can ball with GS. GS has better top end talent...But nobody in the league would have a top 8 that talented. The mix of defense/athleticism and ability to score in any fashion would be a matchup nightmare. My favorite lineup would be Irving-Rozier-Brown-Hayward-Horford. The floor spacing along with 2 PG's that can feed Brown/Hayward who can both shoot inside and slash to the rim would be awesome to watch. Still plenty of defense on the court with Brown/Rozier/Horford.

    City of Champions

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELTICS4LYFE View Post
    No thank you for Tuner, he looked horrible in the Cavs series
    I'd take him, but I don't think we can do it
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  8. #38
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    I wonder if trading Kyrie would be able to net you a top 5 pick.

  9. #39
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    ^ No, same for Hayward. They both have to prove things and if so, they'd be dealt for other max type guys. In a real strong draft nobody wants to deal a 20 year old with huge upside for a 27 or 28 year guy at the max with health stuff. The money savings alone in the rookie deal is a potent reason not too.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    You do realize Leonard is 26 right? He's still in his prime years. Keeping Tatum and Brown with an eye for 2025 would be foolish. We can't keep saying "the future, the future". At some point you have to go for it and sacrifice some long term assets for championships now.

    A Kyrie - Leonard combo has a solid 5 year window (assuming health) and that's very conservative.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    My ideal scenario in a Kawhi offseason would be ...

    S&T Smart for an expiring contract.

    Use that player we get from Smart in a Leonard trade.

    Tatum, Morris, Yabusele, Nader, MEM 2019, LAC 2019, BOS 2018 first rounder

    Re-sign Baynes and Monroe (MLE)

    Sign Seth Curry

    Kyrie/Rozier
    Hayward/Curry
    Leonard/Brown
    Horford/Theis
    Baynes/Monroe
    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Ok, it's official. I want nothing to do with chasing KL. Let's just keep growing what we have.

    Bring back Smart ($48M/4)
    Bring back Larkin ($1.5M/1)
    Bring back Baynes ($6M/1)

    Trade Morris (maybe a package with our pick to move up a little) - I think we just need to get something for him before he walks. He won't be happy with his playing time next year with Hayward returning.

    If healthy - our playoff lineup would be something like this.

    Irving (32)/ Rozier (16)
    Brown (16)/Rozier (16)/ Smart (16)
    Hayward (32)/Smart (16)
    Tatum (32)/ Brown (16)
    Horford (32)/ Baynes (10)/ Theis (6)

    If Brown/Tatum/Rozier continue their progression and Hayward and Irving are healthy...This team can ball with GS. GS has better top end talent...But nobody in the league would have a top 8 that talented. The mix of defense/athleticism and ability to score in any fashion would be a matchup nightmare. My favorite lineup would be Irving-Rozier-Brown-Hayward-Horford. The floor spacing along with 2 PG's that can feed Brown/Hayward who can both shoot inside and slash to the rim would be awesome to watch. Still plenty of defense on the court with Brown/Rozier/Horford.
    What's with the sudden change of heart...???

    When those rumors first came out, you had to wonder where they were coming from and why... Especially since it's the Spurs... I could be wrong, but has Pop said anything in public defending Kawhi...??? Forget the injury... If he's a top 5 player and this story keeps getting deeper, why in the world would we want that drama in Boston...???

    Like I said earlier... If the C's can't get to the Finals next season with Kyrie, Horford and Hayward, weez gots problems...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post

    Trade Morris (maybe a package with our pick to move up a little) - I think we just need to get something for him before he walks. He won't be happy with his playing time next year with Hayward returning.
    I wasn't a fan of Morris when he arrived in green, but he definitely won me over... He's cheap, can score off the bench and he don't back down to anybody... He would have fit perfectly with the 07'/08' team, and he fits perfect with this roster... If Smart doesn't re-sign, IMO Morris's toughness will be desperately needed next season... I think he's loving being in the postseason with this group...

    He's gonna walk... Big deal... IMO, his value on this roster outweighs a small time trade... Even if that means moving up a couple spots in the draft...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  12. #42
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    If I could only keep one Celt it is Tatum, no way I'm dealing him plus major draft resources for all but 2-3 guys and KL isn't one of them. Brown, OK. But no Tatum.

    Think of the things Horford does with his passing, in about 3 years Tatum will be doing that and scoring 25+ a game at very good percentages and be an above average defender. In his best 3 years I have him down with 3 top 5 MVP shares. It possible he could break 30 a game w/o killing his teammates like a low percentage shooter such as AI, that and a title or two could get him an MVP..

    Tatum is also cheap and young. KL is middle aged and expensive and will be old and expensive about 6-7 years before Tatum.

    No way and no thanks..

    Happy to deal Hayward in such a package, and while SA might not find Hayward a fair price, perhaps a 3 way can pull it off. Maybe even Brown in the same deal and get ourselves 4-7 pick this year. Makes the team younger, gives us a likely big and Brown's role is covered now by KL.

    Haward (??), Brown (SA), Rozy (to SAC), 3 picks mentioned.

    KL, SAC pick, some crummy salary or two to make it work as long as it expires after this year.

    Oops a 4 way because SA and SAC won't want Hayward. Not simple, not likely.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 05-03-2018 at 06:21 PM.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  13. #43
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    Jan 2009
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    I wouldn't deal JB or JT...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  14. #44
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    Well I think Rozier stock will be very high this offseason and Iím not a number guy but if possible....

    Horford/Rozay/filler player(s)/3 firsts for AD


    Resign Smart Baynes and.....IT(think his stock has dropped)

    Kyrie/IT
    Brown/Smart
    Hayward/Semi
    Tatum/Morris
    AD/Baynes

    ....crazy team but I think it actually sounds doable, Iím sure someone will correct me on the numbers lol

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELTICS4LYFE View Post
    Well I think Rozier stock will be very high this offseason and Iím not a number guy but if possible....

    Horford/Rozay/filler player(s)/3 firsts for AD


    Resign Smart Baynes and.....IT(think his stock has dropped)

    Kyrie/IT
    Brown/Smart
    Hayward/Semi
    Tatum/Morris
    AD/Baynes

    ....crazy team but I think it actually sounds doable, Iím sure someone will correct me on the numbers lol
    No chance at AD without one of Brown/Tatum involved. I donít think the pelicans move him at this point anyways...

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