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  1. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    T
    I don't like Morris pinching Ojeleye out of the rotation. I think Ojeleye can be just as good as Morris defensively. If he can improve his 3pt consistency he can be the exact player we all want Morris to be. A 3 and D guy with size to guard any wing spot and even the 4. But doesn't shoot as much and passes more.
    I like Semi, but I think his offensive season comes next season... He's turning into Ab's bigger version...

    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Morris needs to go unfortunately. His replacement is already on the roster. His name is Semi Ojeleye.
    Tough, tough statement... Semi should be Morris's replacement after this season, because Morris will be on another roster after this season...

    Morris is an everyday 13+ ppg player, who knocks down 3's and plays solid D...

    IMO, bad move letting Morris go...

    I would have liked to see Posey for one more season with the C's... Can't have enough seasoned vets... The solid 1st, 2nd and 3rd year young guys are cheap and locked in... Guys like Morris don't come around too too often and make a good fit with certain teams... He had his hissy fit, but then he saw something special with this group and bought in...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

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  2. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever35 View Post
    I like Semi, but I think his offensive season comes next season... He's turning into Ab's bigger version...



    Tough, tough statement... Semi should be Morris's replacement after this season, because Morris will be on another roster after this season...

    Morris is an everyday 13+ ppg player, who knocks down 3's and plays solid D...

    IMO, bad move letting Morris go...

    I would have liked to see Posey for one more season with the C's... Can't have enough seasoned vets... The solid 1st, 2nd and 3rd year young guys are cheap and locked in... Guys like Morris don't come around too too often and make a good fit with certain teams... He had his hissy fit, but then he saw something special with this group and bought in...
    He bought in because he was getting 25+ mpg. That's not going to be available to him unless you're taking minutes from Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Smart. Smart isn't going to re-sign for a role of less than 25mpg either. So is Morris worth keeping around when he's either going to be unhappy in a much smaller role than last year or keep him here and take a better player off the floor?

    This is no knock against Morris. I'd love to keep him. There just isn't enough minutes to go around. Is he worth going into the luxury tax for? I don't think so. I'd much rather have Smart than Morris.

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  3. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Disagree, you've got two 4/5's playing C. The top 8 physical (strength and/or height) with offensive and/or rebounding talent is going to eat those guys up, and what's more they are going to wear down by playoff time. At the very least we need a backup C that can play 12-14 MPG to take the load off the other two.

    Morris at his best is tough to replace, however, Morris with limited playing time, being a downer in the locker room and with the media is going to lead to a mid season trade and perhaps a net negative experience.
    Dunno if you heard the Leonard discussion on 98.5, but it had me thinking about your proposal.

    Big picture I agree: lose Smart and/or Baynes/Morris and defense from the starters must improve. I'd feel much more comfortable with Kawhi in the mix than Kyrie or Haward, even though, as F & M argued, GH is probably be untradable.

    Would love to know what the C's offered in February....

  4. #439
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    Guys Baynes is going to get A lot more than $6m....probably going to get offers around $10m

  5. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELTICS4LYFE View Post
    Guys Baynes is going to get A lot more than $6m....probably going to get offers around $10m
    From who?

    Baynes of his $6M contract with DET with the same line of thinking as you. He ended up in BOS making $1M less. He had the exact same statistical season in BOS as he did the prior year in DET. Last year there was more FA money floating around in the offseason than this year.

    I'm going to say there's no chance he gets $10M. $6M is his market value. His past 3 seasons have pretty much proven that.

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  6. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    From who?

    Baynes of his $6M contract with DET with the same line of thinking as you. He ended up in BOS making $1M less. He had the exact same statistical season in BOS as he did the prior year in DET. Last year there was more FA money floating around in the offseason than this year.

    I'm going to say there's no chance he gets $10M. $6M is his market value. His past 3 seasons have pretty much proven that.
    “Same exact statistical season” yes maybe on paper.

    In DET he was on a bad team behind Drummond and did anyone know who Baynes even was before we signed him? Probably not.

    In Bos he started more games than probably his whole career, helped anchor the top defense in the league and I believe rank as the top defensive(or top 3) player in the league and made a name for him self, even if it’s “man bun who gets dunked on”

    I believe he and his agent took a gamble to take a little less this season and boost his stock and try to get a bigger longer deal this season, as many players have so far since Stevens came.

    There was more money floating around last season but also a lot of big name FA Durant, Blake, Hayward etc

    What’s the market for C this year? Cousins and Lopez and.......Noel, Monroe? Even if a team offers him the full MLE that might be too rich for us.

  7. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELTICS4LYFE View Post
    “Same exact statistical season” yes maybe on paper.

    In DET he was on a bad team behind Drummond and did anyone know who Baynes even was before we signed him? Probably not.

    In Bos he started more games than probably his whole career, helped anchor the top defense in the league and I believe rank as the top defensive(or top 3) player in the league and made a name for him self, even if it’s “man bun who gets dunked on”

    I believe he and his agent took a gamble to take a little less this season and boost his stock and try to get a bigger longer deal this season, as many players have so far since Stevens came.

    There was more money floating around last season but also a lot of big name FA Durant, Blake, Hayward etc

    What’s the market for C this year? Cousins and Lopez and.......Noel, Monroe? Even if a team offers him the full MLE that might be too rich for us.
    Baynes has been a known commodity since SAS. HPF, myself and quite a few other posters here were advocating signing Baynes from the beginning of last offseason. People around the league knew who he was before last season. And he produced identical numbers to his previous 3 seasons. He is what he is. The league knows what he is. IMO his market has been set. I'll say it again...He's absolutely not getting $10M a year.

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  8. #443
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    Am I the only one that would like to keep Monroe? I know there were times he looked unplayable last year because he was so out of shape, but there were some really good things he did last year. He was our best rebounder on both sides of the floor. He was our best scorer inside, 74 FG% around the rim. He was a great passer, finished 5th in APG despite his significantly lower minutes and 4th in AST%. Somehow his DBPM was by far top on our team. He has limitations defensively because he can't switch for **** but he's definitely not as bad as people make him out to be. Part of that has to be limiting 2nd chance opportunities for the other team.

    More importantly, Monroe just turned 28 last week. Baynes will be 32 this year. I loved the grit Baynes gave us by defending dunks and doing a lot of dirty work, and he has more range than Monroe. But there's a lot more risk with giving him a long term deal than Monroe. I don't think Baynes gets $10 mil offers like the guy above said, but his value is definitely peaking right now. Being a starter on an ECF team, this is the most recognition he's ever gotten, Monroe's value is the lowest it's ever been. With non-bird rights we can add a mid-sized, long term contracts that can be used for salary fillers in trades.

    We can go up to $6 Million for Greg Monroe. $5.1 Million for Baynes. Factor in that Baynes already has a ring, Monroe made more money last year than Baynes has in his career (17+5), and that Monroe chose to come here rather than his hometown where he could have started next to AD and get much more playing time, Monroe just makes more sense. You can probably work out something like 3 years/$19 million with a 3rd year team option. Baynes should absolutely look for the most money, and that will require sacrificing our MLE, and I'd rather not give him a long term deal.

    I'd expect Monroe's strength and conditioning to be much better as well with an offseason with our team. One of the underrated aspects of our management is how athletic our guys look. Semi, Jaylen, Tatum, all looked much bigger in less than a year. Horford looks younger and faster than his Atlanta days. The hustle from Baynes/Theis was really surprising in the beginning of the year, I don't know how they looked before but I think our staff helped. Hayward looks swole af in all the pics of his recovery. Crowder was jacked, Bradley played much more physically and bigger than he did under Doc (his rebounding numbers), we kept Sully in shape, even IT was at his best defensively because of the added strength/agility.
    Last edited by Sportfan; 06-14-2018 at 05:14 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Nope... Sorry but no cheaters allowed... If you are caught cheating you shouldnt be next to guys that have done nothing wrong... Lets put a cheater like brady next to some of the best QBs ever like Young and Montana

    He has cheated several times and now lies about it and looks like a scumbag pos
    The Death of PSD.

  9. #444
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    Last night on EEI, Tomase shut down LeBron talks on the grounds that the C's aren't really playing for the next 3 seasons. Danny has more of an eye for the long-term.

    People are delusional IMO if they think Kyrie is okay with some tepid approach through '20. In his prime, championship proven, wants to be the alpha of his own title team. Thoughts of him being a bridge player just aren't practical.

    What if the Celtics are 'this close' to GSW and Irving thinks the SAC or MEM picks could net an impact player to win now?

  10. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sportfan View Post
    Am I the only one that would like to keep Monroe? I know there were times he looked unplayable last year because he was so out of shape, but there were some really good things he did last year. He was our best rebounder on both sides of the floor. He was our best scorer inside, 74 FG% around the rim. He was a great passer, finished 5th in APG despite his significantly lower minutes and 4th in AST%. Somehow his DBPM was by far top on our team. He has limitations defensively because he can't switch for **** but he's definitely not as bad as people make him out to be. Part of that has to be limiting 2nd chance opportunities for the other team.
    He was worse on D then I figured. He's in terrible shape, and he just can't/won't commit on D.

    More importantly, Monroe just turned 28 last week. Baynes will be 32 this year. I loved the grit Baynes gave us by defending dunks and doing a lot of dirty work, and he has more range than Monroe. But there's a lot more risk with giving him a long term deal than Monroe. I don't think Baynes gets $10 mil offers like the guy above said, but his value is definitely peaking right now. Being a starter on an ECF team, this is the most recognition he's ever gotten, Monroe's value is the lowest it's ever been. With non-bird rights we can add a mid-sized, long term contracts that can be used for salary fillers in trades.
    Monroe looks like he is 34 going on 35 and out of the NBA in two years.

    I would give Baynes a 2 year deal, but Monroe? One only - better none.

    We can go up to $6 Million for Greg Monroe. $5.1 Million for Baynes. Factor in that Baynes already has a ring, Monroe made more money last year than Baynes has in his career (17+5), and that Monroe chose to come here rather than his hometown where he could have started next to AD and get much more playing time, Monroe just makes more sense. You can probably work out something like 3 years/$19 million with a 3rd year team option. Baynes should absolutely look for the most money, and that will require sacrificing our MLE, and I'd rather not give him a long term deal.
    Nope. Totally different opinion. Monroe cannot play even poor D on 3/4 of the Centers in the NBA. He screws up our D. If he didn't he would have played a lot more. Baynes started 67 games for us, Monroe? Zero.

    I'd expect Monroe's strength and conditioning to be much better as well with an offseason with our team. One of the underrated aspects of our management is how athletic our guys look. Semi, Jaylen, Tatum, all looked much bigger in less than a year. Horford looks younger and faster than his Atlanta days. The hustle from Baynes/Theis was really surprising in the beginning of the year, I don't know how they looked before but I think our staff helped. Hayward looks swole af in all the pics of his recovery. Crowder was jacked, Bradley played much more physically and bigger than he did under Doc (his rebounding numbers), we kept Sully in shape, even IT was at his best defensively because of the added strength/agility.
    Monroe had plenty of time to get into shape after he came over. He didn't lose any of his fat, increase his foot speed - nothing.

    Bradley's rebounding numbers had to do with playing more and where he was asked to play on the court. Or do you claim that he turned into a 98 lb weakling on Det where his rebounding collapsed.

    Monroe was crap in the playoffs this year, Baynes was very good. No IT, No AB, no GM.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 06-14-2018 at 07:16 PM.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  11. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    Last night on EEI, Tomase shut down LeBron talks on the grounds that the C's aren't really playing for the next 3 seasons. Danny has more of an eye for the long-term.

    People are delusional IMO if they think Kyrie is okay with some tepid approach through '20. In his prime, championship proven, wants to be the alpha of his own title team. Thoughts of him being a bridge player just aren't practical.

    What if the Celtics are 'this close' to GSW and Irving thinks the SAC or MEM picks could net an impact player to win now?
    Who says Kyrie is a bridge player?

    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Nope... Sorry but no cheaters allowed... If you are caught cheating you shouldnt be next to guys that have done nothing wrong... Lets put a cheater like brady next to some of the best QBs ever like Young and Montana

    He has cheated several times and now lies about it and looks like a scumbag pos
    The Death of PSD.

  12. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post

    What if the Celtics are 'this close' to GSW and Irving thinks the SAC or MEM picks could net an impact player to win now?
    GSW is definitely becoming beatable... The Cavs just down right pooped the bed and packed it in after game 1... That ain't happening with Stevens and the C's...

    Horford-Tatum-Hayward-JB-Kyrie... Crazy things happen, but if that starting 5 can't get the C's to the finals, we gots problems...

    Where does an impact player fit in...???

    I'll move the Sac/Mem pick(s) in this draft if it could get us into the top 5/6... If not, holding onto it will only help the future because the Kings should be a bottom 5 team again...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  13. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    He was worse on D then I figured. He's in terrible shape, and he just can't/won't commit on D.
    Monroe looks like he is 34 going on 35 and out of the NBA in two years.

    I would give Baynes a 2 year deal, but Monroe? One only - better none.
    Nope. Totally different opinion. Monroe cannot play even poor D on 3/4 of the Centers in the NBA. He screws up our D. If he didn't he would have played a lot more. Baynes started 67 games for us, Monroe? Zero.
    He was definitely worse than expected. But again, he was traded a week into the season to a team that was tanking, had no head coach with 0 defensive game plan and by far the worst defensive team stats in the league. Not a good look by any means to get out of shape but the Suns had by far the worst culture in the league the past 3 years.

    Monroe had a career year off the bench last year. He was the 2nd best player on the Bucks by all advanced stats and on/off numbers. He finally accepted his role is best served off the bench. There's no reason to think he's done in the league at 27. He obviously needs to get in better shape, but as stated our staff has been really good with that and he isn't known for poor work ethic. You won't have to sign him until late July, that gives you at least 2 months to see if he's on the right track.

    If Baynes takes a 2/11 deal with non bird rights, by all means keep him and boot Monroe. I'll be shocked if that gets him. This isn't simply a choice between the 2, Baynes will have more suitors and is less inclined to take a discount or play for a winner than Greg. Someone will bid higher, and we'll have to use the MLE on him and/or give him a 3+ year deal. I'd rather buy low on Monroe on a 1-2 year deal without sacrificing the MLE.

    Wtf does game starts have to do with anything? Monroe was here for a 1/3 of the season and was not ready for this team. Much harder to incorporate someone in-season. It's not like Baynes finishes games. He was a starter in name only.

    Also, Daniel Theis does everything Baynes does. More blocks, more steals, better range, quicker, better hands, very stout defensively and can guard the perimeter. Baynes is bulkier and a better enforcer but that's it.

    Monroe had plenty of time to get into shape after he came over. He didn't lose any of his fat, increase his foot speed - nothing.

    Bradley's rebounding numbers had to do with playing more and where he was asked to play on the court. Or do you claim that he turned into a 98 lb weakling on Det where his rebounding collapsed.

    Monroe was crap in the playoffs this year, Baynes was very good. No IT, No AB, no GM.
    Uh what, are you serious? How does a basketball big man lose fat in-season in a 2 month period? You cannot maintain muscle and lose weight in that small of a time period. He would have to be at a calorie deficit and limit his weight training which means he would be losing muscle to bang in the post or not have the energy to play consistent NBA minutes. You expect him to do cardio, lift weights, limit carbs, and then play in an NBA game that night? Come on.

    He's no Jahlil Okafor. Monroe is a real NBA player who is useful in situational basketball. He's the best post scorer and rebounder on the team, and if Baynes requires us to use the MLE i'd rather bring him back for cheap.

    He was disappointing with us this year and Brad clearly trusted guys ahead of him. It's unreasonable to base his limited time with us as the only indication of his ability. Baynes was very good in the playoffs, but he is no Clint Capela or a core piece. He is a very poor offensively player. The 3 point shooting was a mirage. His mid range game was hit or miss and he was often left wide open thanks to the ball movement of our other guys. He's terrible under the basket, a 56% at the rim is dreadful, only Larkin, Rozier, and Semi were worse.
    Last edited by Sportfan; 06-14-2018 at 08:52 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Nope... Sorry but no cheaters allowed... If you are caught cheating you shouldnt be next to guys that have done nothing wrong... Lets put a cheater like brady next to some of the best QBs ever like Young and Montana

    He has cheated several times and now lies about it and looks like a scumbag pos
    The Death of PSD.

  14. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever35 View Post
    GSW is definitely becoming beatable... The Cavs just down right pooped the bed and packed it in after game 1... That ain't happening with Stevens and the C's...

    Horford-Tatum-Hayward-JB-Kyrie... Crazy things happen, but if that starting 5 can't get the C's to the finals, we gots problems...

    Where does an impact player fit in...???

    I'll move the Sac/Mem pick(s) in this draft if it could get us into the top 5/6... If not, holding onto it will only help the future because the Kings should be a bottom 5 team again...
    This years 5 is not the same as next years 5,

    I just spent :40 minutes scouting Bamba. No way DA deals up to take him.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  15. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sportfan View Post
    He was definitely worse than expected. But again, he was traded a week into the season to a team that was tanking, had no head coach with 0 defensive game plan and by far the worst defensive team stats in the league. Not a good look by any means to get out of shape but the Suns had by far the worst culture in the league the past 3 years.
    He's a professional. One who was a starter, now off the bench - could well be so because he's not applying himself. If he can't be professional on his own, why can't he just eat baconators out of the view of the dieticians on the C's?

    Monroe had a career year off the bench last year. He was the 2nd best player on the Bucks by all advanced stats and on/off numbers. He finally accepted his role is best served off the bench. There's no reason to think he's done in the league at 27. He obviously needs to get in better shape, but as stated our staff has been really good with that and he isn't known for poor work ethic. You won't have to sign him until late July, that gives you at least 2 months to see if he's on the right track.
    He's an unusually effective offensive force within 3 feet of the basket, he avoids shots which are not his. He has discipline in this way, and he might be able to score in the NBA even at age 40, but he's got a Babe Ruth at age 36 body. Thin legs, huge torso, excess fat. The fact advanced metrics give him high marks for effective shooting and rebounding is just part of the story - the eyes don't lie. He's a poor defender. Can't cover fast athletic guys, overpowered by stronger guys. Good to know he can cover Centers ranked in the ESPN 90+ area.

    If Baynes takes a 2/11 deal with non bird rights, by all means keep him and boot Monroe. I'll be shocked if that gets him. This isn't simply a choice between the 2, Baynes will have more suitors and is less inclined to take a discount or play for a winner than Greg.
    Here you ascribe motives to Baynes that you have no insight into.

    Someone will bid higher, and we'll have to use the MLE on him and/or give him a 3+ year deal. I'd rather buy low on Monroe on a 1-2 year deal without sacrificing the MLE.
    We'll see, but Monroe != Baynes on this team.

    Wtf does game starts have to do with anything? Monroe was here for a 1/3 of the season and was not ready for this team.
    It's a fact. Go google pics of Monroe in each year that shows his body. He really looks bad, and he didn't look this bad 5 years ago.

    Much harder to incorporate someone in-season. It's not like Baynes finishes games. He was a starter in name only.
    Monroe earned his fat metrics against a lot more 2nd/3rd stringers than Baynes did. Baynes started and Baynes beat the bag out of Monroe in the playoffs. The guy is a pro - but where is the evidence that he gives a crap to strive and improve? I watch his face out there and I hate to say it, but he looks like Sonny Liston after the Lewiston fight - I DON'T GIVE A FART! it radiates from him. Only when he has to ball in the low post does he seem engaged. Too bad it's a two way game.

    Also, Daniel Theis does everything Baynes does. More blocks, more steals, better range, quicker, better hands, very stout defensively and can guard the perimeter. Baynes is bulkier and a better enforcer but that's it.
    Theis is a 4/5 like Horford - can play minutes at 5. If the C's go into the season with just those two and Horford plays 30, Theis 18, they'll both be gassed by the playoffs - and Horfords very positive offensive game will be curtailed as well.

    Baynes can handle the banging better than either. If Baynes signs elsewhere and Monroe is the best guy we can sign - fine. But it's to protect Horford and Theis as much as having the anachronistic Monroe.


    Uh what, are you serious? How does a basketball big man lose fat in-season in a 2 month period?
    He's a professional athlete.

    You cannot maintain muscle and lose weight in that small of a time period.
    Wow, that's rubbish.

    He would have to be at a calorie deficit and limit his weight training which means he would be losing muscle to bang in the post or not have the energy to play consistent NBA minutes. You expect him to do cardio, lift weights, limit carbs, and then play in an NBA game that night? Come on.
    Cutting carbs and trimming fat off of your steak - simple and effective and if he can't play because he didn't have 24 oz of coke, 6 pieces of toast, and 1.5 ounces of fat the day before than he's defective in a bunch of ways. Losing say 9 lbs from the day he got here until the start of the playoffs should have made him a bit quicker, made his BMI better, and maybe made him feel better too.

    Get a pic of him on Georgetown in 2010. 6' 11" 247 lbs. He was weighed at 265 as a rookie. I'm really good at estimating size/weight of big athletes since I'm 6' 8.5" 285. No question Monroe played at over 300 lbs here, perhaps as much as 320. Nobody expects him to get back to 265, but, 285? Is that so hard? He needs a chef and a nutritionist.

    He's no Jahlil Okafor. Monroe is a real NBA player who is useful in situational basketball. He's the best post scorer and rebounder on the team, and if Baynes requires us to use the MLE i'd rather bring him back for cheap.

    He was disappointing with us this year and Brad clearly trusted guys ahead of him. It's unreasonable to base his limited time with us as the only indication of his ability. Baynes was very good in the playoffs, but he is no Clint Capela or a core piece. He is a very poor offensively player. The 3 point shooting was a mirage. His mid range game was hit or miss and he was often left wide open thanks to the ball movement of our other guys. He's terrible under the basket, a 56% at the rim is dreadful, only Larkin, Rozier, and Semi were worse.
    I'd like to get Baynes for 1 year as a bridge and trade into this draft to get a big. Baynes played above his level, that's what a journeyman who applies himself 100% with a great team/coach does, no evidence that Monroe was anything but Monroe while here.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

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