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  1. #361
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    Jaylen for Dallas #5 pick (DSJr to Brown for the alley-oop)

    Or

    Kyrie to the Clippers for #12 & #13.....Celtics trade #12, 13 & 27 to move up in top 5.
    Last edited by esb; 06-11-2018 at 06:48 PM.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by esb View Post
    Jaylen for Dallas #5 pick (DSJr to Brown for the alley-oop)

    Or

    Kyrie to the Clippers for #12 & #13.....Celtics trade #12, 13 & 27 to move up in top 5.
    Are you insane? That second trade is awful. We traded #8 + players last year for him and that was a steal. You want to ditch him for 12 and 13? No way.

    City of Champions

  3. #363
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    When LeBron leaves CLE...They're going to try and unload payroll like crazy. The payroll numbers on that roster are insane. With no chance to win I'm willing to bet they'll be looking to shed money and bottom out again for 3-4 years.

    My first though was how do we get Kevin Love over here...He's not worth his contract but we're over the cap anyways. His game would fit nicely into what we do. His 3pt shooting and rebounding would help immediately. However, the numbers just don't work without getting a 3rd team involved and then we're faced with a minutes crunch because I'd be unwilling to trade any of our top 5 in this deal. So that would essentially leaves us with 6 players needing 30+ minutes. Just not feasible really.

    So I moved on down the line. There isn't much to like about CLE roster but I would absolutely take Kyle Korver. His contract is terrible, let me get that out of the way. At least per season wise. But he has 2 years left on his deal. He'd be an overpaid specialist on this team no doubt. But his deadly 3pt shooting and playoff experience/veteran type would be great for this young team. He wouldn't expect to play a ton of minutes and we can use him when needed, as mentioned, in a specialist role. I expect Brad could find the perfect way to utilize his strengths.

    Marcus Morris is likely an odd man out on this roster. With Hayward and Irving both coming back there just isn't enough minutes to go around. Morris won't be happy. He's a FA after the season so we might as well get a useful piece for him that won't be so....Unhappy/difficult...With a limited role. Korver for Morris works in a trade straight up.

    CLE likely won't object. It cuts $2M from their payroll immediately and shaves a year off Korvers deal. Their total savings is over $9M...And Morris will likely be an attractive trade piece at the deadline that CLE could cash in on again.

    PG Irving (32)/Rozier (16)
    SG Brown (32)/Smart (16)
    SF Hayward (32)/Smart(8)/Ojeleye/Korver split an 8...Gives Stevens a specialists dependent on need Def/Off
    PF Tatum (32)/Theis (16)
    C Horford (30)/Baynes (18)

    City of Champions

  4. #364
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    I want Zizic back...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I think the ideal scenario is sign Smart, trade Morris. If Smart leaves, just keep Morris. Not the same position but close enough. Both are versatile players
    Soooooo your back up plan to Smart leaving is not trading Morris?
    Last edited by CELTICS4LYFE; 06-11-2018 at 07:31 PM.

  6. #366
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    No thanks on Korver. Kyrie and Hayward are worse defenders than the guys theyíll be replacing minutes wise. Weíre going to take a real step back on that end with them coming back. For the bench defense needs to be the priority over offense.

    Remember, we had to resort to a 7 man rotation last year. Thatís far from ideal. We need a brigade of gritty defenders we can rotate in with starters to cover for the weaker defense. Korver ainít that.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    No thanks on Korver. Kyrie and Hayward are worse defenders than the guys theyíll be replacing minutes wise. Weíre going to take a real step back on that end with them coming back. For the bench defense needs to be the priority over offense.

    Remember, we had to resort to a 7 man rotation last year. Thatís far from ideal. We need a brigade of gritty defenders we can rotate in with starters to cover for the weaker defense. Korver ainít that.
    It's for a VERY minimal role. Talking like 4-8 minutes. He's not going to impact our defense that badly. And no, he's not a great defender. But it's not for a lack of effort which I can respect. And he will make things tough for opposing players at time (just ask Jaylen Brown).

    He'd be a specialist. The guy you put in after a TO when you need a 3. A guy when you need a floor spacer for a certain play call. By no means is he going to have a major role on this team. But a lot of championship teams have guys like this.

    With Smart/Brown/Rozier/Horford/Baynes/Ojeleye still on the roster I'm not worried defensively.

    We were the #1 defense in the NBA with Kyrie this season (yes he played remember). So I don't see why him coming back is going to throw everything out of whack.

    Is Morris a better defender than Hayward? Yes. Is he worlds better? No. No way. I don't get this idea that because Kyrie and Hayward are coming back our defense falls off a cliff. It won't. Brads defense is of the team variety. We do not need 5 lock down defenders. We need some specialists/Elite type guys (Smart/Brown) for those difficult matchups. Sure. But Brads defensive scheme has always been about playing together and the sum of the parts all working together is going to be an elite defense. Better than the individual parts.

    We survived IT. I think Kyrie/Hayward and Korver playing 4-8mins a game would be just fine.

    Also, I believe we resorted to a 7 man rotation for like 5 of 19 games in the playoffs. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure. And I don't think it happened until we played CLE (Larkin was done, Semi was exploited in round 2) - lack of depth essentially created that issue. I don't see how Korver would have hurt us. Had Korver been on our bench this playoffs. He'd have had a small role on the team...I have no doubt about that.
    Last edited by Oakmont_4; 06-11-2018 at 08:24 PM.

    City of Champions

  8. #368
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    Why are we trading Brown? What is the point in trading Brown, the number 3 overall pick 2 yrs ago, for a top 5 pick? Brown is showing that he is getting better each year, his 3 point shot has gotten a lot better, and he's improving at attacking the rim. I know we wanna get a big, but we are gambling on potential whereas we know what we have in Brown.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by CELTICS4LYFE View Post
    Soooooo your back up plan to Smart leaving is not trading Morris?
    Pretty much yeah. Don't see why that's an issue...

    Before Kyries injury...Smart was essentially playing SG/SF. Morris plays SG/SF/PF (ideally not SG much but he can). Morris is a tough defender. Not to the level of Smart...But he's good to very good. Morris would be making $5M. Smart $12+. I'm perfectly fine with that trade off.

    City of Champions

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by corky831 View Post
    Why are we trading Brown? What is the point in trading Brown, the number 3 overall pick 2 yrs ago, for a top 5 pick? Brown is showing that he is getting better each year, his 3 point shot has gotten a lot better, and he's improving at attacking the rim. I know we wanna get a big, but we are gambling on potential whereas we know what we have in Brown.
    Ideally I want to keep Brown. But if Brown is the price to pay for Bamba or Carter, I think I do it. A highly athletic 3 and D SG is easier to find than a big in the mold of Horford or Gortat. Just look around the league. And with Bamba and Carter...Those are the names thrown out...Horford and Gortat.

    I like Brown a lot. I really do. But his series against CLE really showed a lot of flaws in his game (he still has a lot of upside). He still needs to get stronger because he's not great a finishing around the rim. His ball handling is not great. His shooting still needs to improve. He was better at shooting the 3 which is nice...But he still shot under 70% from the FT line. That's not good. That's bad. And bad FT shooters generally don't become good shooters.

    I fear Browns ceiling is less Kawhi lite and more freak athlete 3/D guy. Still not a bad player to have...But that's not game changing, build your franchise around guy either. And we're flush with wing players, and short on bigs. It would just make sense. - the salaries also come into play in the future. We save 2 years of MAX contract on Brown. That's big going forward.

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  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    So basically our roster is.

    PG - Some PG who's better than Rozier but not better than Kyrie. And a backup that's slightly better than Theis

    SG Brown/Nader

    SF Leonard/Ojeleye

    PF Tatum/Yabusele

    C Horford/Some backup who's not going to be better than Baynes at $5M

    How is this better? That teams not going very far. No depth. No future picks because we spent them to marginally improve the starting rotation and deplete the bench.

    I'll take

    Kyrie/Rozier
    Brown/Smart
    Hayward/MLE/Ojeleye
    Tatum/Morris
    Horford/Baynes/Theis

    Over that all day
    Didn't do a very good job reading...

    I didn't deal KI.

    KL can play #2 and #3, not just #3, you can't pretend not to know that.

    I drafted a C for the future, from the #5-6 slot, should be markedly better than Theis in year 1, never mind beyond that.

    I got a PG with #18, cheaper and controlled vs. Rozier, we'll see how he pans out.

    My team has a top 5-7 player - yours does not; I have KI, Brown Tatum, Horford as you do - and I've got a young C with a pedigree.

    and we certainly can get a S&T return on others under discussion.

    I'll take my superior defensive team with a real center for a decade, and not a series of retreads. Worse comes to worse I settle for Baynes for a year or two.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  12. #372
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    I wouldnít trade Brown for Carter or Bamba. I think the upside of those guys panning our would be better for us roster composition wise but thatís far from a guarantee. Wouldnít make that gamble because I think we can seriously push for a title as is. And even if Bamba or Carter did pan out itís still probably a are back for at least a year or two compared to Brown.

    The idea you need a great big is archaic IMO. You just need great players regardless of position. Itís fine to plug in just rotational guys at center.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  13. #373
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    I like HPFís idea of signing Tyreke for the MLE if Smart gets crazy money elsewhere. Tyreke became a really legit 3 point shooter this year and would fit well in this system. Maybe you still end up doing the Rozier + 27 for Beverly + 13 deal as well to add Beverlyís defense off the bench (have always loved his defense).

    Iím still on board with trading for a high pick and using it on Bamba as well. I donít agree that the big man is archaic. Sure, itís been a few years since a big has won thanks to GSW. Look at how much everyone salivates over AD, Embiid, KAT, etc. though. Thereís just something about a game changing big that can carry a roster. I really think Bamba has the highest ceiling in this draft. Watch his workouts and his game film and youíll see it...

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    It's for a VERY minimal role. Talking like 4-8 minutes. He's not going to impact our defense that badly. And no, he's not a great defender. But it's not for a lack of effort which I can respect. And he will make things tough for opposing players at time (just ask Jaylen Brown).

    He'd be a specialist. The guy you put in after a TO when you need a 3. A guy when you need a floor spacer for a certain play call. By no means is he going to have a major role on this team. But a lot of championship teams have guys like this.

    With Smart/Brown/Rozier/Horford/Baynes/Ojeleye still on the roster I'm not worried defensively.

    We were the #1 defense in the NBA with Kyrie this season (yes he played remember). So I don't see why him coming back is going to throw everything out of whack.

    Is Morris a better defender than Hayward? Yes. Is he worlds better? No. No way. I don't get this idea that because Kyrie and Hayward are coming back our defense falls off a cliff. It won't. Brads defense is of the team variety. We do not need 5 lock down defenders. We need some specialists/Elite type guys (Smart/Brown) for those difficult matchups. Sure. But Brads defensive scheme has always been about playing together and the sum of the parts all working together is going to be an elite defense. Better than the individual parts.

    We survived IT. I think Kyrie/Hayward and Korver playing 4-8mins a game would be just fine.

    Also, I believe we resorted to a 7 man rotation for like 5 of 19 games in the playoffs. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure. And I don't think it happened until we played CLE (Larkin was done, Semi was exploited in round 2) - lack of depth essentially created that issue. I don't see how Korver would have hurt us. Had Korver been on our bench this playoffs. He'd have had a small role on the team...I have no doubt about that.

    I'm not saying we'd fall off a cliff and suck on defense but looking at that roster I think that minimal role you're giving Korver would be better off going to a defensive specialist than an offensive one. Particularly at the amount of money you're committing to him.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by BostonBoy View Post
    I like HPFís idea of signing Tyreke for the MLE if Smart gets crazy money elsewhere. Tyreke became a really legit 3 point shooter this year and would fit well in this system. Maybe you still end up doing the Rozier + 27 for Beverly + 13 deal as well to add Beverlyís defense off the bench (have always loved his defense).

    Iím still on board with trading for a high pick and using it on Bamba as well. I donít agree that the big man is archaic. Sure, itís been a few years since a big has won thanks to GSW. Look at how much everyone salivates over AD, Embiid, KAT, etc. though. Thereís just something about a game changing big that can carry a roster. I really think Bamba has the highest ceiling in this draft. Watch his workouts and his game film and youíll see it...
    I don't put KAT in the same class as those other two but let's not get caught up on that. OF COURSE it's great to have an awesome big. I'm just saying it's not necessary. I'm not willing to overpay for a pick by giving up Jaylen Brown just for the sake of having a big. I don't think that makes sense in our roster and window. Now, if it's Rozier plus picks sign me up. But as I've explained I don't think that's a fair deal if you look at it from the other team's perspective.

    I'd love to have Bamba or another young big but everyone keeps talking about ceiling. Not every player hits their ceiling. In fact, very few do. And even ones that do have a progression to get there. Jaylen Brown is a perfect example of that. Look at his year 1 vs. year 2. Even if Bamba or Carter or some other rookie big ends up a better player than Jaylen Brown long-term I still find it VERY unlikely that in year 1 they're better than Jaylen is in year 3. And in their year 2 vs. Jaylen's year 4 - still probably Jaylen IMO.

    Keep in mind that Horford is going into his age 32 season - his window isn't that much longer for being an all star caliber player. Kyrie's knee injuries make it questionable how much longevity he'll have. Hayward has 2 guaranteed years left and then he can either opt in for one more year (what will be his age 30 season) or opt out for long-term security. If Hayward plays up to par then that's going be big money and are you convinced Ainge will pay him through his 30s?

    The window to win with this team might not be as long as everyone thinks. We're in position to extend the window with good drafting and smart signings/trades but our best bet to win is in the next few years, make no mistake. So when I see people say trade Jaylen for a rookie big I think they're getting caught up in "OMG you need to have a big man to balance the roster if you want to win" rather than taking a step back and looking at the progression of players. That's what I mean about not overrating the need for a big - don't get so one track mind on it that you make what I think would be a bad move.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

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