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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sportfan View Post
    The #5 pick rumor was just smoke to see how badly teams wanted to move up, similar to what we did with the pick last year.

    As you said, they're HUGE on DSJ. Probably would have taken him at 6/7 too last year. What sense does it make trading him for Kyrie?

    I don't understand why we're treating Cousins to Dallas as a sure thing. Dallas would be incredibly stupid to trade the #5 pick and DSJ for Kyrie without any gurantee of another max FA coming, which can't happen until July. This would be the equivalent of us trading Rondo plus #5 for Ray Allen in 2007. Is DMC really gonna take less money to be lured by Kyrie + barnes over AD + Jrue? Is Dallas really gonna throw 2 maxes on guys with season ending knee injuries?

    On top of that, to your last point of only doing this if Kyrie's health isn't great, do you seriously think dallas would not take all precautions with medicals, especially after last year's fiasco?
    Why would they trade for Kyrie? Because that’s what you do in the nba. You accumulate assets and trade them for a superstar player. Kyrie is a superstar player. #5 and DSJ could both be busts. Let me give you the last 5 players taken at #5:

    De’aaron Fox, Kris Dunn, Mario Hezonja, Dante Exum, Alex Len.

    If you want to go back further, you have to go waaaaay back to see a good player drafted (Cousins in 2010). I would trade all 5 of them for Kyrie, wouldn’t you?

    You’re treating #5 and DSJ like they’re sure things and they’re not. Like I said in my post, it’s a fair deal because there’s risk on both sides. DSJ and #5 might be **** and Kyrie might be injured or leave in FA.

    In terms of DMC, who knows what he’s going to do. Do you know for sure if he likes playing with AD and Jrue? Because I don’t know for sure and Mark Cuban is a pretty good owner. He might like being the main “big man” on a roster rather than being completely overshadowed by AD. The guy is a headcase.

    As for Dallas, if Kyrie and DMC have good years, why wouldn’t they throw max contracts at them? If Kyrie is healthy, I would want the Celtics to throw a max Kyrie’s way. You wouldn’t? If your answer is no, it’s disingenuous.

    The Celtics are in a rare position where they can take a chance on trading a superstar player and will still likely make the finals. The added flexibility is nice for them and they get some assets.
    Last edited by BostonBoy; 06-09-2018 at 10:28 PM.

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Resigning Smart is ahead of moving up into the top 10? Don't agree.

    Resign Baynes? How about resigning someone as good or better than Baynes?
    Resigning Smart is absolutely more important than moving into the top 10. If we lose Smart, it makes it hard to give up a player to get into the top 10. But by keeping Smart, it makes players like Rozier, Morris more expendable.

    Instead of saying "sign someone better" offer insight into who and maybe we can jump aboard. I don't see many players out there better than Baynes. The ones that are we can't afford. You don't have a deep understanding of the cap. Baynes we can re-sign for about $6.5M. We can't outright sign any Free Agent for that kind of money. We could trade for one, but again, we lose assets.

    Resigning Baynes is a no brainer.

    City of Champions

  3. #333
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    I love how fickle this board is. We've spend the last 4 years chasing All Stars. Everyone was pessimistic that we could even get one. And then we got Al, but he wasn't good enough. So then we signed Hayward but that wasn't enough. Finally we trade for Kyrie and everyone is shocked. The possibilities are endless at this point. Then Hayward gets hurt game 1. Then Kyrie gets hurt.

    Now, here we are. 4 years after begging and hoping for All Stars, we have 3 who have yet to play a single game together....We want to trade Kyrie. Truly amazing. And complete idiotic.

    Summer of LeBron are like the full moon. Everyone gets a little crazy. Might take a break from this nonsense for a while.

    City of Champions

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by BostonBoy View Post
    Why would they trade for Kyrie? Because that’s what you do in the nba. You accumulate assets and trade them for a superstar player. Kyrie is a superstar player. #5 and DSJ could both be busts. Let me give you the last 5 players taken at #5:

    De’aaron Fox, Kris Dunn, Mario Hezonja, Dante Exum, Alex Len.

    If you want to go back further, you have to go waaaaay back to see a good player drafted (Cousins in 2010). I would trade all 5 of them for Kyrie, wouldn’t you?

    You’re treating #5 and DSJ like they’re sure things and they’re not. Like I said in my post, it’s a fair deal because there’s risk on both sides. DSJ and #5 might be **** and Kyrie might be injured or leave in FA.

    In terms of DMC, who knows what he’s going to do. Do you know for sure if he likes playing with AD and Jrue? Because I don’t know for sure and Mark Cuban is a pretty good owner. He might like being the main “big man” on a roster rather than being completely overshadowed by AD. The guy is a headcase.

    As for Dallas, if Kyrie and DMC have good years, why wouldn’t they throw max contracts at them? If Kyrie is healthy, I would want the Celtics to throw a max Kyrie’s way. You wouldn’t? If your answer is no, it’s disingenuous.

    The Celtics are in a rare position where they can take a chance on trading a superstar player and will still likely make the finals. The added flexibility is nice for them and they get some assets.
    This might be the most confusing post ever. To start you sound like you're opposed to dealing Kyrie. But your last statement suggests you're ok with it.

    ???

    City of Champions

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I love how fickle this board is. We've spend the last 4 years chasing All Stars. Everyone was pessimistic that we could even get one. And then we got Al, but he wasn't good enough. So then we signed Hayward but that wasn't enough. Finally we trade for Kyrie and everyone is shocked. The possibilities are endless at this point. Then Hayward gets hurt game 1. Then Kyrie gets hurt.

    Now, here we are. 4 years after begging and hoping for All Stars, we have 3 who have yet to play a single game together....We want to trade Kyrie. Truly amazing. And complete idiotic.

    Summer of LeBron are like the full moon. Everyone gets a little crazy. Might take a break from this nonsense for a while.

    I don't think it's fickle to look at the possibilities. It's possible Irving will bolt next July and that means the Celts gave up the 8th overall pick for an injury shortened 2018 and a player coming back with a questionable knee in 2019.

    Why not trade him to get something when you might end up with a still-rehabbing player next year and then nothing?

    There are reasons to stick with him but there are reasons to cut your potential losses too so we'll see what happens.

    If a deal makes sense, DA shouldn't be a accused of being fickle or stupid for taking it. IMO of course.

  6. #336
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    Btw, I'm not a doctor but...

    My youngest daughter broke her patella, like Irving did, and had one of the best Orthopedic surgeons in Beantown repair it. You know what she likes to make her friends do?

    She tells them to put their hand on her kneecap then she extends her leg, it makes them freak out because it feels like she has a ratchet wrench inside her knee. Click click click click...

    Just saying...

  7. #337
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    Lebron not coming to Boston.

    Rozay not getting traded he’s our insurance policy IF Kyrie does decide to take his talents to the rotten apple(still highly doubt it)

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    This might be the most confusing post ever. To start you sound like you're opposed to dealing Kyrie. But your last statement suggests you're ok with it.

    ???
    Let me rephrase then. I listed the #5 picks for the past 5 years for context to say that trading Kyrie is risky and that these picks are often overvalued. If he ends up being healthy and signing in Dallas, DSJ and #5 might end up looking like a bad trade for the Celtics. I ended by saying DSJ and #5 is a risk I’m willing to take if the Celtics determine that he might not be healthy or might not resign.

    It ultimately comes down to Danny’s assessment on Kyrie’s health and his willingness to sign here. If he’s not willing to sign or if there are long term health concerns, deal him. He he’s healthy and willing to resign, keep him.
    Last edited by BostonBoy; 06-10-2018 at 01:06 PM.

  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I love how fickle this board is. We've spend the last 4 years chasing All Stars. Everyone was pessimistic that we could even get one. And then we got Al, but he wasn't good enough. So then we signed Hayward but that wasn't enough. Finally we trade for Kyrie and everyone is shocked. The possibilities are endless at this point. Then Hayward gets hurt game 1. Then Kyrie gets hurt.

    Now, here we are. 4 years after begging and hoping for All Stars, we have 3 who have yet to play a single game together....We want to trade Kyrie. Truly amazing. And complete idiotic.

    Summer of LeBron are like the full moon. Everyone gets a little crazy. Might take a break from this nonsense for a while.
    Let me ask you a question: if you were the GM, wouldn’t you be constantly looking to upgrade your roster? I would hope the answer is yes. You act as if the injuries are no big deal. Hayward doesn’t have an injury history and this was quite the freak injury, so I’m not worried about him breaking down yet.

    Kyrie on the other hand has missed 123 games in 7 years and that’s not including this postseason. He has even more knee complications now than he did before. Why wouldn’t you look to upgrade to an even better, more durable player if you could? Or perhaps you trade him for assets if you think he’ll break down? It might not happen, but it’s worth exploring, no?

    It has nothing to do with being crazy and it’s a fun discussion to have.

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I love how fickle this board is. We've spend the last 4 years chasing All Stars. Everyone was pessimistic that we could even get one. And then we got Al, but he wasn't good enough. So then we signed Hayward but that wasn't enough. Finally we trade for Kyrie and everyone is shocked. The possibilities are endless at this point. Then Hayward gets hurt game 1. Then Kyrie gets hurt.

    Now, here we are. 4 years after begging and hoping for All Stars, we have 3 who have yet to play a single game together....We want to trade Kyrie. Truly amazing. And complete idiotic.

    Summer of LeBron are like the full moon. Everyone gets a little crazy. Might take a break from this nonsense for a while.
    Just sit back with some good whisky and enjoy whatever happens. if we don't make any moves outside than bringing back Smart, then we are title contenders.

    If Ainge decides to go full blast and acquire Lebron for Hayward, then we are also title contenders.

    If Kyrie gets moved for what we should assume would be equal value in terms of quality of player (Porzingis, KAT, etc), then we are also title contenders.

    Either way, we are in great shape right now with plenty of ammo to make bigger moves if he can work his magic and we can look forward to more exciting years like the past two, as opposed to being in the perpetual dumpster.

  11. #341
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    Just to take a step back from the speculation and re-set on where we stand going into the draft and FA...

    Gordon Hayward $31,214,295
    Al Horford $28,928,705
    Kyrie Irving $20,099,188
    Jayson Tatum $6,700,800
    Marcus Morris $5,375,000
    Jaylen Brown $5,169,960
    Terry Rozier $3,050,390
    Guershon Yabusele $2,667,600
    #27 pick $1,640,400 (cap hold)
    Abdel Nader $1,378,242 (partial guarantee)
    Semi Ojeleye $1,378,242 (partial guarantee)
    Daniel Theis $1,378,242 (partial guarantee)

    That's a total of $108,981,064 for 12 players. The cap is expected to be $101M. The luxury tax threshold is expected to be $123M. So before any moves we start the year $7,981,064 over the cap and $14,018,936 under the luxury tax line.

    I think we'll end up bringing Baynes back with his non bird rights for about $5.2M. I think his market will settle there.

    After that we'll have to make a call on Smart. If we think he gets a reasonable price they'll salary dump Yabu with Nader's partial guarantee attached) to make a little extra room. That would make it possible to sign Smart under the tax for one year. If he gets more than we feel comfortable paying then we'll use the MLE on Tyreke Evans.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  12. #342
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    Gonna throw out some names of outside players who I think fit here either via trade or MLE. They come with different prices and

    I brought him up before and I'm going to do it again... Atlanta Hawks C Dewayne Dedmon. He has a $6.3M player option for next season. If he opts into that, Yabusele/Nader is enough outgoing money to match in a trade. With #27 this year and other non premium future picks I'm sure we could work something out with the rebuilding Hawks. He's a good rebounder and defender and last year made himself a real threat from 3 as a stretch 5. He'd be Baynes but better. I'd make a strong push to get him via trade if he opts in or via MLE if he opts out. I think he'd be a tremendous fit here with our current roster and system.

    Tyreke Evans is a guy Ainge has showed interest in before, as soon ago as this past trade deadline. He's someone I think they'd consider with the MLE as I said in my last post. He'd fit on the second unit very well with a variety of different lineup combinations, especially as he's developed into a competent/respectable outside shooter the last 3 seasons.

    Malik Beasley / Juan Hermangoez / Tyler Lydon. All 3 of these guys are former 1st round picks on the Nuggets. They're cash strapped and supposedly willing to go as far as using their #14 pick to get someone to take on an expiring Farried deal since they want to extend Jokic. Boston could take back any of the above by sending out the partial guaranteed salary of Nader. Might be an opportunity to improve the talent level on the bottom of our roster here, but nothing special. None are even rotation players for them so it'd just be a flier to take on our end.

    Raptors C Lucas Nogueira. He hasn't gotten consistent minutes and with them having lots of money tied up he could be allowed to walk via RFA. He's had some intriguing per 36 numbers and for a portion of the MLE or the bi-annual exception he could be a nice flier to talk.

    Clippers PG Pat Beverly. This is a suggestion I've made before as part of a Rozier trade. I wonder if the Clippers would be open to Rozier + #27 for Beverly + #13. We won't land a premium player at #13 but we could get a cheap rotation piece that helps balance the payroll for a year. And Beverly gives us a very solid rotation player for the short-term. If we don't intend to pay Rozier I think this makes a lot of sense for us. From LAC's standpoint they get a young rotation player which would bring their total up to... 1 lol

    Shelvin Mack. He has a partial guarantee with ORL. If they buy him out for $1M instead of keeping him for $6M he could be an option for us if Smart walks. He played for Stevens at Butler and maybe they view him as better than Larkin as he's actually been a consistent rotation player, even though nothing special.

    Nerlens Noel. His value is in the ****er but we've had interest before and Boston is his hometown. Maybe he views Stevens' system as a good bet to build his stock back up, sort of like Evan Turner did. Could be a low risk, high reward move for us.

    All of those are relatively low cost options. There are some more expensive pieces we could pursue. A combination of Morris, Yabusele and Nader (all expiring or partially guaranteed) would allow us to take back $14.4M in a trade. Throw in the #27 pick and we can take back $16.1M. Theis and/or Semi could be included to take back more. So that gives us options to maybe pursue some bigger deals that might be out of favor with another team but Ainge thinks could excel here. Gorgui Dieng (MIN), Kent Bazemore (ATL), Evan Fournier (ORL), Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (CHA), Mason Plumlee (DEN) are all players who at one point looked to be budding young players but have underperformed their contracts. Maybe there's a scenario where Ainge thinks they could recapture that here and it's worth sending out just expiring money to land one. This is probably more in play if Smart gets bigger offers than anticipated and now the $10-12M I expect they have budgeted for him opens up.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  13. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Malik Beasley / Juan Hermangoez / Tyler Lydon. All 3 of these guys are former 1st round picks on the Nuggets. They're cash strapped and supposedly willing to go as far as using their #14 pick to get someone to take on an expiring Farried deal since they want to extend Jokic. Boston could take back any of the above by sending out the partial guaranteed salary of Nader. Might be an opportunity to improve the talent level on the bottom of our roster here, but nothing special. None are even rotation players for them so it'd just be a flier to take on our end.

    I like Hernangomez... Wanted him with the 16th pick, but Den took him at 15...
    "I've never been scared of contact. Now I get to bring it, that's what I love to do, so I'm going to bring it."

    Reggie Lewis



    GET OFF YOUR HEELS BILL !!!

  14. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by BostonBoy View Post
    Let me ask you a question: if you were the GM, wouldn’t you be constantly looking to upgrade your roster? I would hope the answer is yes. You act as if the injuries are no big deal. Hayward doesn’t have an injury history and this was quite the freak injury, so I’m not worried about him breaking down yet.

    Kyrie on the other hand has missed 123 games in 7 years and that’s not including this postseason. He has even more knee complications now than he did before. Why wouldn’t you look to upgrade to an even better, more durable player if you could? Or perhaps you trade him for assets if you think he’ll break down? It might not happen, but it’s worth exploring, no?

    It has nothing to do with being crazy and it’s a fun discussion to have.
    There is a huge difference between looking to improve your team and trading away half the team every single year.

    You fail to realize that injuries bring down Kyrie and Gordon's trade value immensely. There's no reason to go explore the market for them and sell low. If the Cavs or Lebron approach us about working on a S&T or the Spurs say they want to discuss Kawhi, then we can put these guys on the table potentially. But there is no reason for Ainge to go searching the trade market dangling these two guys.

    You can always upgrade your team, but this is the first since 2010 that we've had a team without any major weakness. Our main priority shouldn't be making a splash

    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Nope... Sorry but no cheaters allowed... If you are caught cheating you shouldnt be next to guys that have done nothing wrong... Lets put a cheater like brady next to some of the best QBs ever like Young and Montana

    He has cheated several times and now lies about it and looks like a scumbag pos
    The Death of PSD.

  15. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Gonna throw out some names of outside players who I think fit here either via trade or MLE. They come with different prices and

    I brought him up before and I'm going to do it again... Atlanta Hawks C Dewayne Dedmon. He has a $6.3M player option for next season. If he opts into that, Yabusele/Nader is enough outgoing money to match in a trade. With #27 this year and other non premium future picks I'm sure we could work something out with the rebuilding Hawks. He's a good rebounder and defender and last year made himself a real threat from 3 as a stretch 5. He'd be Baynes but better. I'd make a strong push to get him via trade if he opts in or via MLE if he opts out. I think he'd be a tremendous fit here with our current roster and system.

    Tyreke Evans is a guy Ainge has showed interest in before, as soon ago as this past trade deadline. He's someone I think they'd consider with the MLE as I said in my last post. He'd fit on the second unit very well with a variety of different lineup combinations, especially as he's developed into a competent/respectable outside shooter the last 3 seasons.

    Malik Beasley / Juan Hermangoez / Tyler Lydon. All 3 of these guys are former 1st round picks on the Nuggets. They're cash strapped and supposedly willing to go as far as using their #14 pick to get someone to take on an expiring Farried deal since they want to extend Jokic. Boston could take back any of the above by sending out the partial guaranteed salary of Nader. Might be an opportunity to improve the talent level on the bottom of our roster here, but nothing special. None are even rotation players for them so it'd just be a flier to take on our end.

    Raptors C Lucas Nogueira. He hasn't gotten consistent minutes and with them having lots of money tied up he could be allowed to walk via RFA. He's had some intriguing per 36 numbers and for a portion of the MLE or the bi-annual exception he could be a nice flier to talk.

    Clippers PG Pat Beverly. This is a suggestion I've made before as part of a Rozier trade. I wonder if the Clippers would be open to Rozier + #27 for Beverly + #13. We won't land a premium player at #13 but we could get a cheap rotation piece that helps balance the payroll for a year. And Beverly gives us a very solid rotation player for the short-term. If we don't intend to pay Rozier I think this makes a lot of sense for us. From LAC's standpoint they get a young rotation player which would bring their total up to... 1 lol

    Shelvin Mack. He has a partial guarantee with ORL. If they buy him out for $1M instead of keeping him for $6M he could be an option for us if Smart walks. He played for Stevens at Butler and maybe they view him as better than Larkin as he's actually been a consistent rotation player, even though nothing special.

    Nerlens Noel. His value is in the ****er but we've had interest before and Boston is his hometown. Maybe he views Stevens' system as a good bet to build his stock back up, sort of like Evan Turner did. Could be a low risk, high reward move for us.

    All of those are relatively low cost options. There are some more expensive pieces we could pursue. A combination of Morris, Yabusele and Nader (all expiring or partially guaranteed) would allow us to take back $14.4M in a trade. Throw in the #27 pick and we can take back $16.1M. Theis and/or Semi could be included to take back more. So that gives us options to maybe pursue some bigger deals that might be out of favor with another team but Ainge thinks could excel here. Gorgui Dieng (MIN), Kent Bazemore (ATL), Evan Fournier (ORL), Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (CHA), Mason Plumlee (DEN) are all players who at one point looked to be budding young players but have underperformed their contracts. Maybe there's a scenario where Ainge thinks they could recapture that here and it's worth sending out just expiring money to land one. This is probably more in play if Smart gets bigger offers than anticipated and now the $10-12M I expect they have budgeted for him opens up.
    I feel like if Dedmon needs to be traded for, I'd rather just attempt to sign Baynes at 5M and keep 27/Yabu. Definitely a guy I look at in FA though.

    Seems like Memphis will prioritize bringing back Tyreke. Another guy I'd like to pursue in FA but I'm not sure how we entice him. He won't start nor get big money from us. he'll require the full MLE for him to seriously consider us IMO and that means no Smart then. I think he would make Rozier expendable as well if we move him Personally don't think we need him as much as we did last year. Kyrie, Gordon, Tatum, can all handle the ball and create their own shot and that's Tyreke's game.

    Denver definitely has interesting prospects, and with Kroneke as owner you know they're going to avoid lux tax. I think Rozier to Denver is a legit possibility still. From what i've heard, they still like Juan a lot but he just had injuries last year. Beasley and Lydon shouldn't be too hard to get, I like Beasley more.

    Bebe is interesting at the vet min. He was solid in Toronto but Poetl pulled him from the rotation. I'd offer him a vet min nothing more for the Monroe spot.

    I've looked at Beverly/Milos trade options with the Clippers too, but Rozier wont get you 13 and one of their PG's.

    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Nope... Sorry but no cheaters allowed... If you are caught cheating you shouldnt be next to guys that have done nothing wrong... Lets put a cheater like brady next to some of the best QBs ever like Young and Montana

    He has cheated several times and now lies about it and looks like a scumbag pos
    The Death of PSD.

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