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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin13697 View Post
    As would I, the significant difference being the belief in certain Christian testimonial accounts such as the virgin birth and the sense of moral responsibility that comes along with it.
    Could it be wrong? of course but your scientific understanding is limited and you must live by some type of belief in something.
    I'd also argue that scientific studies have become more and more bias and profit driven therefore almost unreliable.
    So it boils down to this: how do we know if our beliefs are true? How do we know whether they are real?

    Science, for all its flaws, is the only tool we have for this.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    So it boils down to this: how do we know if our beliefs are true? How do we know whether they are real?
    Ask Dugmet.
    “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, at least fails while daring greatly.” -- Teddy Roosevelt

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    And people have feelings, don’t you judge think based on your reaction to them sometimes. I know I do. We have learned a lot thanks to science it’s not the only thing though


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    When we make personal decisions devoid of the emotional system they are generally terrible decisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    Ask Dugmet.
    Yeah but isn’t that the same as conducting science?

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    When we make personal decisions devoid of the emotional system they are generally terrible decisions.
    i think that is b/c you intuitively make associations/narratives. that's calculating probability. when you divorce yourself from that completely you miss variables/probabilities your gut doesn't. Sometime you gotta role the dice
    Rep Power: 0




    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin13697 View Post
    Religion is a belief while science is an observation.

    Religion is a belief system, indeed.
    Science is knowledge.
    An observation is what the scientific world calls a theory.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKalltheway View Post
    Religion is a belief system, indeed.
    Science is knowledge.
    An observation is what the scientific world calls a theory.
    science involves knowledge but it also involves judgement.


    Science can't prove your not in a matrix, or that rape is evil. You can't prove that your parents love you or even understand what love is. You can't prove Abraham Lincoln won the presidency, you can only conclude it based on historical data.

    If “Science is the only way to really know truth.” How could you prove that statement by science? It is actually self-refuting because there is no scientific test you could use to prove that it is true. Science cannot prove logic to be true because it assumes and requires logic in order for it to work.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin13697 View Post
    science involves knowledge but it also involves judgement.


    Science can't prove your not in a matrix, or that rape is evil. You can't prove that your parents love you or even understand what love is. You can't prove Abraham Lincoln won the presidency, you can only conclude it based on historical data.

    If “Science is the only way to really know truth.” How could you prove that statement by science? It is actually self-refuting because there is no scientific test you could use to prove that it is true. Science cannot prove logic to be true because it assumes and requires logic in order for it to work.
    Science aka the scientific method is the best tool we have for determining what’s real. It is also not infallible.

    Science doesn’t tell u what’s good or what’s bad.

    “Science doesn’t prove logic to be true” is a malformed statement.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Science aka the scientific method is the best tool we have for determining what’s real. It is also not infallible.

    Science doesn’t tell u what’s good or what’s bad.

    “Science doesn’t prove logic to be true” is a malformed statement.
    We're agreeing, It's not infallible, its limited,and has no answers for morality or purpose.
    You have the power to live by your's own discretion, you have choice.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin13697 View Post
    We're agreeing, It's not infallible, its limited,and has no answers for morality or purpose.
    You have the power to live by your's own discretion, you have choice.
    Right. That’s not science’s job. Purpose is determined by the individual; morality by society.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Right. That’s not science’s job. Purpose is determined by the individual; morality by society.
    1. The scientific method is the best tool we have at our disposal to explain what is and to help predict what may be. Admittedly, its starting point is a definitive materialism — what you see (hear, touch, taste, smell) is what you get.

    2. Purpose or meaning is an illusion — a necessary illusion perhaps, but an illusion nonetheless.

    3. And morality is determined by the guy with the biggest gun.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin13697 View Post
    We're agreeing, It's not infallible, its limited,and has no answers for morality or purpose.
    You have the power to live by your's own discretion, you have choice.
    Oh there are answers for morality in science. I can measure the impact of a moral decision. Your previous example of rape. I can measure the economic, psychological and social ramifications of rape and determine that it is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    1. The scientific method is the best tool we have at our disposal to explain what is and to help predict what may be. Admittedly, its starting point is a definitive materialism — what you see (hear, touch, taste, smell) is what you get.

    2. Purpose or meaning is an illusion — a necessary illusion perhaps, but an illusion nonetheless.

    3. And morality is determined by the guy with the biggest gun.
    Lol.

    I'd be more comfortable saying purpose is subjective which is kinda the same as what you said, only softer. And while your number 3 might have been tongue-in-cheek, I'm going to respond seriously to say no. It's not that simplistic.

    The guy with the biggest gun can lose his weapon at any time. Kings get beheaded. Mafia chiefs get assassiinated. Whole regimes get toppled. Ultimately, the rules are made by society as a whole. To your point,. though, that dude with the gun can wield an awful lot of influence.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    1. The scientific method is the best tool we have at our disposal to explain what is and to help predict what may be. Admittedly, its starting point is a definitive materialism — what you see (hear, touch, taste, smell) is what you get.

    2. Purpose or meaning is an illusion — a necessary illusion perhaps, but an illusion nonetheless.

    3. And morality is determined by the guy with the biggest gun.
    1. we've already established and agreed

    2. Purpose is the reason something is done, a cause

    3. morality can be determined by value and principle, a chain of reasoning
    Last edited by kevin13697; 05-07-2018 at 03:28 PM.

  15. #60
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    Scientists don't tend to believe in anything until they have proof of its existence/reality. Yet many scientists believe that it is likely that there are other forms of life in the universe, but that is not the same thing as believing.

    "When a man stops believing in God he doesn’t then believe in nothing, he believes anything."
    Last edited by kevin13697; 05-07-2018 at 03:50 PM.

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