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  1. #31
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    Guaranteed most people trashing AI and Nash never even watched the games. Stats and metrics are not everything.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsSoxKnicks View Post
    I wonder if anyone knows that Nash led like 5 of the top 10 offenses of all time including those two years they won MVP. And yes, it was absolutely Nash (not Amare). But I think most people suffer from scoring blindness as opposed to looking at creation and making the teams' offense better. It's not a coincidence Nash was a player on like 5 of the top 10 offenses of all time. Was he bad on defense? Definitely and there's easily a case they were both undeserving but he doesn't belong in the category with the other 3 imo. Those other 3 were much worse. Actually, Westbrook's wasn't that bad. Rose and Iverson are in a category by themselves.
    Agreed.


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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsSoxKnicks View Post
    I wonder if anyone knows that Nash led like 5 of the top 10 offenses of all time including those two years they won MVP. And yes, it was absolutely Nash (not Amare). But I think most people suffer from scoring blindness as opposed to looking at creation and making the teams' offense better. It's not a coincidence Nash was a player on like 5 of the top 10 offenses of all time. Was he bad on defense? Definitely and there's easily a case they were both undeserving but he doesn't belong in the category with the other 3 imo. Those other 3 were much worse. Actually, Westbrook's wasn't that bad. Rose and Iverson are in a category by themselves.
    I'm a big Nash guy and thought in his prime would've dominated this era of basketball, but there were just more worthy candidates that year IMO. If he was the suns defensive anchor then perhaps he had a case but just not enough from him to warrant b2b MVPs

  4. #34
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    As far as top offenses all time, Antoni's 7 second or less offense was something the league had never seen before and provided that team with such synergy.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bus...ed-nba-2017-11

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandsOnTheWheel View Post
    As far as top offenses all time, Antoni's 7 second or less offense was something the league had never seen before and provided that team with such synergy.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bus...ed-nba-2017-11
    Actually, in terms of Pace, D'Antoni's Suns would have been average pace this season.

    PROCESSING

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by warfelg View Post
    Actually, in terms of Pace, D'Antoni's Suns would have been average pace this season.
    At the time though it had never been seen before. Only hurts Nash's case.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandsOnTheWheel View Post
    At the time though it had never been seen before. Only hurts Nash's case.
    True.

    PROCESSING

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlashBolt View Post
    "Iverson was one of the most dominant players ever."

    List his achievements. Please. The guy was far from being dominant. He was on losing teams and underachieved as an NBA superstar. His reputation was solely based on his status as an NBA icon. Teams improved when he was traded and teams declined when they received him. It's a fact. He refused to come off the bench in Memphis. He's a locker room mess who brought drama. Heck, isn't he already causing so much problems in the Big 3 League that they PREVENTED him from being a player next season? Give me a break. One of the most dominating? Baby Wilt? LMFAO. Stop making me laugh.
    I am really started to believe you just started watching hoops around the time Curry / Harden got drafted, seriously

    for you to even ask me what his list of achievements why don't you go ask your boy toy Bron why he publicly on the record stated that Iverson is 'probably the greatest player ever pound for pound'. How come Bron didn't just say this about Nash who just recently pretty much retired? why didn't any player come out and say this about Stockton when he retired? answer: because it wouldn't have been even remotely close to being true, Iverson was a entirely diff. special than those type of players, its a reason why Bron / CP3 and others say what they say about Iverson, he was and is the Answer, just look at the league now, all the lil guards want to score and shoot and play make, AI style, Lebron needs to bring the headband back to complete the trifecta(arm sleeve / tats) that AI created

    why would a player / legend of Bron caliber and iq speak so ignorantly? why did Bron have a poster of this non dominant player growing up? it couldn't have been just the tats / arm sleeve / headband that Bron admired was it?

    how about this go back at watch HS footage of AI in both football / basketball and tell me how can a Junior in HS can be Mr. Virginia in both sports and not play his Senior season because of some BS court case / brawl and then go to Georgetown after a year off and drop 20ppg as freshman and not be dominant at 5'10'' and 150lbs with bricks in his pocket

    of course he was baby Wilt / Dipper, from the athletic ability to endurance / skill set he was just 5'10'' and Wilt was 7'4'' with shoes on, Lebron is a mix of AI / Shaq or / Mailman

    him coming off the bench in both Detroit and Memphis at that time is like Lebron coming off the bench for Cedric Ceballos or today version Crowder / Sefalosha, that's how I view Stuckey / Conley, especially at that time, they were bench players and though AI was aged he came off a 2008 at almost 27ppg and 7apg 2spg, Detroit had the 4th seed prior to the Stuckey incident

    do you think a player coming off that type of season should be on the bench, let me know when a player avg 27ppg and 7apg at damn near 33yrs old and asked 6 months later to come off the bench and see how they react, imagine if Lebron was told next year to come off the bench how would he feel? would he do it or ***** about it and take his ball and go home like AI did? I can tell you have never played a lick of sports a day in your life that mattered, ymca or shooting in your driveway doesn't count

    the big 3 league? they used his name to promote the league, its already a lawsuit against the big 3 so I bet that is Iverson fault as well right?

    dude played with and through so many injuries I am shocked that he can actually walk right now, its a reason Shaq(modern day Wilt) said he was top 5 ever because he would take Shaq type punishment and keep coming back attacking, Shaq said AI would get beat up on the court like he did but Shaq was 7'2'' 300+ lbs and not 5'10'' 150lbs soak and wet

    how about you list his rosters he had in his career and tell me honestly when they were legit pre season favorites to do anything outside of 2008 with Denver, they won 50 games as a 8th seed, shows you how stacked that West was, and everybody lost to the Lakers and Spurs out west for that 1 1/2 seasons in Denver

    its hard to achieve the ultimate team goal of a title when you rely on 5-6ppg career scorers for 7 out first 10yrs of prime / youth / apex ability, Mckie and Snow say hello, Mckie avg a robust 14ppg during that 01' run, I guarantee you if Love as the 2nd option puts up 14ppg throughout this playoff run they will not be making any serious noise. not just Bron but in regards to any other superstar player with a 14ppg second option to lean on, that is not a recipe for success, 2nd option at least needs to be a bona fide 20ppg+ scorer, your second option cant be a 6th man getting 11ppg like mckie did off the bench, you seriously don't know jack-ish about basketball, this is simple basic ish

    his reputation was based on his status as an NBA icon as you say, now how in the hell do you become an icon? isn't Ali an icon? isn't Gretzky an icon, isn't Jordan an icon? or Nicklaus?

    do you became an icon by being average at something or dominant at it? why is everything from icon, volume shooting, turnovers, not wanting to come off the bench for inferior players, and everything else always matters more when it comes to Iverson than others? c'mon smart guy, give me some factual answers

    and make sure you list his teammates, you know Salmons, Claxton, M Jackson, Harpring, you know those first ballot HOF'ers that he just ballhogged shots from, those all nba'ers(any team), I will be patiently waiting to list those achievements that could have been had they actually drafted Pierce / TMac / Dirk (any combo), now compare those 3 players with his actual roster that he had his 10yrs there, and injured / old Webber don't count

    I bet Pierce / TMac / Dirk are HOF bound and they passed up each player after getting AI

    make sure you list his incompetent GM who was running the team as well, he did the same thing to Nets as well GM wise, Iverson was doomed from the start to not win big, but he still displayed his ''dominance''

    give yourself a break, of that kit kat bar
    Last edited by europagnpilgrim; 04-13-2018 at 12:26 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by COOLbeans View Post
    The NBA kind of put the all time greats into a top 50 players list in the mid 90s. and Iverson is definitely top 50.

    I can create a list, but I’m not sure it would matter in this forum right now. All time great is top 50. Can you make an argument that Iverson is outside of the top 50?

    All former players say he’s an all time great and “the greatest little man to ever play.”. I think that says a lot and gives his greatness even more legitimacy
    Has anyone ever made an exhaustive list of the greatest little men to ever play? It's probably a pretty sad list. Take that into consideration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJohnHorn View Post
    A lot of people say Nash didn't deserve his. I don't see it. When you look at what those teams did in games he didn't play, or when he was off the court...

    Not only that, but he and 'Antoni completely transformed the way the NBA plays on the offensive end. Both of those were deserving, and to be frank, that third year he deserved it even more (though that is not to say he should have got it).

    I'm not a fan of any of the other picks there. Westy was about personal stats. It's an impressive accomplishment, yes, but we see this year he's had 2 all-stars added to his roster and they got the same number of wins. He's an amazing talent, yes, but I put Leonard and Harden over him last year, and I feel like this year confirmed it.

    As for AI.... well, I feel like Philly did well despite him, not becaue of him. People weren't in to advance stats back then, and his high scoring average and team record was enough for a lot fo voters. Today, that wouldn't fly. Shaq. Duncan. There were FAR more deserving players.

    I mean... the Spurs second leading scorer that year was 'Derek Anderson'. And the they only had 3 double-digit scoers. And yet they got more wins in the west.

    Kobe and Shaw both deserved it more. They had better seasons.

    FRankly, I would have given it to Webber before Iverson.


    I mean... Garnett's team wasn't a 50-win team, but even he was more deserving that year.


    Rose... well.. he had a great season. I'd have gone with LBJ, but there was a strong case for Rose.
    What d'antoni is doing in Houston only further de-legitimizes Nash's MVP. It should have been a co-award.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    Has anyone ever made an exhaustive list of the greatest little men to ever play? It's probably a pretty sad list. Take that into consideration.

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    no but you constantly hear those who know about ball mention Tiny / Zeke / AI as the 3 most dominant ones to lace'em up, its hard for guys like Webb / Boykins / Price / Stockton / Nash / Bogues but Zeke and AI were something special, even CP3 is on that list as well with the 3 first mentioned

    no little guy on solo level dominated on AI level, Zeke will even tell you that, his former coach Daly already quoted publicly where he felt AI ranked, he had AI in his circle of 25 of the best players ever, his list not mine

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJohnHorn View Post
    A lot of people say Nash didn't deserve his. I don't see it. When you look at what those teams did in games he didn't play, or when he was off the court...

    Not only that, but he and 'Antoni completely transformed the way the NBA plays on the offensive end. Both of those were deserving, and to be frank, that third year he deserved it even more (though that is not to say he should have got it).

    I'm not a fan of any of the other picks there. Westy was about personal stats. It's an impressive accomplishment, yes, but we see this year he's had 2 all-stars added to his roster and they got the same number of wins. He's an amazing talent, yes, but I put Leonard and Harden over him last year, and I feel like this year confirmed it.

    As for AI.... well, I feel like Philly did well despite him, not becaue of him. People weren't in to advance stats back then, and his high scoring average and team record was enough for a lot fo voters. Today, that wouldn't fly. Shaq. Duncan. There were FAR more deserving players.

    I mean... the Spurs second leading scorer that year was 'Derek Anderson'. And the they only had 3 double-digit scoers. And yet they got more wins in the west.

    Kobe and Shaw both deserved it more. They had better seasons.

    FRankly, I would have given it to Webber before Iverson.


    I mean... Garnett's team wasn't a 50-win team, but even he was more deserving that year.


    Rose... well.. he had a great season. I'd have gone with LBJ, but there was a strong case for Rose.
    Shaq turned his team into a legit contender and they didn't simply add him, they destroyed their playoff nucleus to add shaq. The team shaq left added talent and Kobe led them to the lottery.. whereas nash saw his team improve upon his departure. That's true mvp impact

  13. #43
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    Rank these MVP seasons by Least and Most deserving

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    What d'antoni is doing in Houston only further de-legitimizes Nash's MVP. It should have been a co-award.

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    Why? What’s with this recent trend on here of knocking a player for fitting his coach’s system? Would he of been as good on the Griz? I don’t think but he wasn’t so it doesn’t matter


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    Last edited by ewing; 04-15-2018 at 08:52 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandsOnTheWheel View Post
    At the time though it had never been seen before. Only hurts Nash's case.
    Why?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  15. #45
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    The MVP in the NBA is a joke anyways. Really, Lebron should have about 8 of them already. But voters for some reason get bored of voting for the same guy over and over again. I better say out loud that I am not even a fan of the guy, but respect his talent.

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