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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmellofan15 View Post
    maybe everyone here is right...there's no value in winning your teams more games. I mean if we set aside last year, Lebron would only have the worst winning percentage for an MVP since Bob McAdoo in Buffalo. Apparently Russell Westbrook's stat chasing has set a new standard for MVP voting. Try as hard as you can to be less efficient, win less games, and rack up more counting stats than the other guy and you are the most valuable!
    Yeah cause Bron is such an inefficient stat stuffer

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Yeah cause Bron is such an inefficient stat stuffer
    I wouldn't say so, but you're entitled to your own opinion.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    They exceeded expectations given everything we actually found out about the players, as opposed to projecting the health and availability of the unkown variables.

    At the beggining of the season you had less information than you do today, Ill stick to what actually happened
    Dont care about the MVP award.
    No way did they exceed expectations, not under any circumstances. What actually happened was LeBron took it easy (as he is wont to do in the regular season) and went downright ghost before Cleveland traded for a bunch of new pieces, and then in the last month or so he started playing like LeBron.

    I'm not going to say he overachieved because him not playing 100% lowered the expectations of the team and then he exceeded them by playing as good as he's capable of playing.

    I can't believe people want to pat LeBron on the back and say "good job buddy" for the year the Cavs just had.

    Looking at their schedule, the Cavs went 18-1 for a stretch in November and December. They were cruising right along, then things started to go bad and we look in January and we see LeBron's stats for January were:

    23.5 PPG on 22% from 3 and 67% FT, 7.4 APG, 7.3 RPG and a +/- of -8.3.

    He basically checked out in January, and that's why the Cavs started to torpedo. They wouldn't have been amazing given everything, but they would have been a lot better than what they were if James hadn't basically stopped trying.
    Last edited by valade16; 04-14-2018 at 03:55 PM.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    No way did they exceed expectations, not under any circumstances. What actually happened was LeBron took it easy (as he is wont to do in the regular season) and went downright ghost before Cleveland traded for a bunch of new pieces, and then in the last month or so he started playing like LeBron.

    I'm not going to say he overachieved because him not playing 100% lowered the expectations of the team and then he exceeded them by playing as good as he's capable of playing.

    I can't believe people want to pat LeBron on the back and say "good job buddy" for the year the Cavs just had.

    Looking at their schedule, the Cavs went 18-1 for a stretch in November and December. They were cruising right along, then things started to go bad and we look in January and we see LeBron's stats for January were:

    23.5 PPG on 22% from 3 and 67% FT, 7.4 APG, 7.3 RPG and a +/- of -8.3.

    He basically checked out in January, and that's why the Cavs started to torpedo. They wouldn't have been amazing given everything, but they would have been a lot better than what they were if James hadn't basically stopped trying.
    Money post. I love Lebron but this is the first legitimate beef I have ever had regarding his conduct. I saw him totally check out for an extended period

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Wouldn't you care more about being wrong tho? You honestly thought IT would return to health to the point where you boasted after a single game. lol, no its not Brons fault that his teammates were hurt or bad for chemistry. He did his job, got the sour apples shipped out and the team improved and given all the turmoil they have actually overachieved. They underachieved last year but thats when Bron and Kyrie coasted, like you said.
    IT will be back. James Harden will be MVP. Facts, Chronz


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  6. #231
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    No you don't give a 5th mvp to a player when they didn't have the best stats by a clear margin on the season or the best record in the league. No other player after winning a 4th or 5th MVP won it without the best record in the league.

    Harden led the league in PER, WS, WS/PER 48 minutes, Box Plus/Minus, PPG and beat Lebron both games head to head and led franchise to best record in it's history and finished ahead of G.S as well while Lebron was the 4th seed in the East.
    Last edited by JordansBulls; 04-14-2018 at 11:31 PM.
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    No way did they exceed expectations, not under any circumstances. What actually happened was LeBron took it easy (as he is wont to do in the regular season) and went downright ghost before Cleveland traded for a bunch of new pieces, and then in the last month or so he started playing like LeBron.

    I'm not going to say he overachieved because him not playing 100% lowered the expectations of the team and then he exceeded them by playing as good as he's capable of playing.

    I can't believe people want to pat LeBron on the back and say "good job buddy" for the year the Cavs just had.

    Looking at their schedule, the Cavs went 18-1 for a stretch in November and December. They were cruising right along, then things started to go bad and we look in January and we see LeBron's stats for January were:

    23.5 PPG on 22% from 3 and 67% FT, 7.4 APG, 7.3 RPG and a +/- of -8.3.

    He basically checked out in January, and that's why the Cavs started to torpedo. They wouldn't have been amazing given everything, but they would have been a lot better than what they were if James hadn't basically stopped trying.
    By literally every barometer they overachieved and one player posted a ridiculously clutch season in order to do so. He actually played alot harder than I've seen in years past, it actually had to with why they overachieved this year. Bron should be at the stage he can coast far more but plenty analysts and exec's have commented on his load and effort level this year. His bad stretch doesn't offset the massive gains he produced in the entirety. It's like you want me to ignore the entire pie here lol.


    Playing like lebron greatly undersells what he did. Dude basically gave more playoff level effort and production far more than he had in years, again plenty agreed about this on balance.

    You can say what you want, I see no proof of anything. So bron has to go 100% in a league where everyone coasts, to have value? Facts are, brons increased effort level is why they overachieved this regular season compared to their talent level and effort of years past.

    Why wouldn't we pat the guy for a superior year than the year prior given his age and team inconsistencies? You want him kicked off all nba ot something lmao, so vague here

    I know the record, find me a single barometer or analysts who agrees with your small sample over the complete data set....
    Last edited by Chronz; 04-15-2018 at 04:09 PM.

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    Money post. I love Lebron but this is the first legitimate beef I have ever had regarding his conduct. I saw him totally check out for an extended period

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    He used to take weeks off entirely, this time he gavethe newguys a chance and he lost trustin them. He's never given a regular season this amount of effort but let's ignore that for some reason.

    Legit beef? Lmao, what does bron owe you again?

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    IT will be back. James Harden will be MVP. Facts, Chronz


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    He wasn't here this year. Yeah and I'll be 500 bucks richer, so wat? Facts

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    By literally every barometer they overachieved and one player posted a ridiculously clutch season in order to do so. He actually played alot harder than I've seen in years past, it actually had to with why they overachieved this year. Bron should be at the stage he can coast far more but plenty analysts and exec's have commented on his load and effort level this year. His bad stretch doesn't offset the massive gains he produced in the entirety. It's like you want me to ignore the entire pie here lol.

    Playing like lebron greatly undersells what he did. Dude basically gave more playoff level effort and production far more than he had in years, again plenty agreed about this on balance.

    You can say what you want, I see no proof of anything. So bron has to go 100% in a league where everyone coasts, to have value? Facts are, brons increased effort level is why they overachieved this regular season compared to their talent level and effort of years past.

    Why wouldn't we pat the guy for a superior year than the year prior given his age and team inconsistencies? You want him kicked off all nba ot something lmao, so vague here

    I know the record, find me a single barometer or analysts who agrees with your small sample over the complete data set....
    First Bolded: We've already been over this. The Cavs did not overachieve based on their preseason expectations. So right there that's one barometer they didn't overachieve, and that's a massive barometer when it comes to MVP voting (fair or not).

    Second Bolded: He should be at the stage where he can coast in the regular season. My point is, if you coast in the regular season, you aren't going to win MVP. You don't get the MVP because if you wanted to, you could win it. You win it for actually being the most impactful for the entire regular season.

    Third Bolded: Certainly not, but he does have to give 100% if he wants to be MVP.

    Fourth Bolded: Certainly not, I'm simply saying he was not MVP this year.

    Fifth Bolded: That he coasted before the trade deadline? That is something you're actually disputing?


    I get your point: taken in totality he did good. Ok, cool. But he wasn't MVP good in totality. James Harden doesn't have any such stretch where he checked out or played bad. James played as good as Harden the last 2 months of the season? OK cool. Harden played that good longer.

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    He used to take weeks off entirely, this time he gavethe newguys a chance and he lost trustin them. He's never given a regular season this amount of effort but let's ignore that for some reason.

    Legit beef? Lmao, what does bron owe you again?
    And he never had to because he never checked out for a month straight before. The entire reason he had to try so hard to end the season was because of how hard he didn't try before then.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    He used to take weeks off entirely, this time he gavethe newguys a chance and he lost trustin them. He's never given a regular season this amount of effort but let's ignore that for some reason.

    Legit beef? Lmao, what does bron owe you again?
    Did you see his numbers during that stretch in January, I mean the ones Valade literally just posted? He had a Vince-Carter-to-Jersey transformation the day after the trade deadline, made his total apathy the weeks leading up to the deadline incredibly apparent. Hell, credible Cav fans on this site were actually suggesting he was finally declining. Honestly no, I've never seen him play for a stretch like that and I don't believe you have either.

    And Lebron doesn't owe me anything, maybe i used the wrong word if you got that impression. People have criticized Lebron for this and that, I'm just saying that for me personally, the only time I've ever disliked anything he did or said or felt like it reflected poorly on him was watching that stretch because again, I saw something similar even if the magnitude was different -- up close when Carter played his final stretch in TO.
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 04-15-2018 at 06:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    First Bolded: We've already been over this. The Cavs did not overachieve based on their preseason expectations. So right there that's one barometer they didn't overachieve, and that's a massive barometer when it comes to MVP voting (fair or not).

    Second Bolded: He should be at the stage where he can coast in the regular season. My point is, if you coast in the regular season, you aren't going to win MVP. You don't get the MVP because if you wanted to, you could win it. You win it for actually being the most impactful for the entire regular season.

    Third Bolded: Certainly not, but he does have to give 100% if he wants to be MVP.

    Fourth Bolded: Certainly not, I'm simply saying he was not MVP this year.

    Fifth Bolded: That he coasted before the trade deadline? That is something you're actually disputing?


    I get your point: taken in totality he did good. Ok, cool. But he wasn't MVP good in totality. James Harden doesn't have any such stretch where he checked out or played bad. James played as good as Harden the last 2 months of the season? OK cool. Harden played that good longer.
    That's not a barometer that's a projection, one with less information than you have in hindsight.

    Already explained I don't give a **** about the award.

    So then why can't we pat the guy on the back for overachieving again.

    F yeah I dispute that. In its entirety he was putting forth more effort than most stars and definitely more than seasons past.

    He was totally mvp good, harden might have been better but your nit picking at that point. Last 2 months of the season? Lmao , stop the straws. Harden coasted too, he just has more of a skill based game and is afforded the luxury of another mvp caliber player. Bron definitely shouldered the greater load this year, that much is without question. You can highlight whatever stretch you want, I'm taking the entire sample every time. So focus on that

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    That's not a barometer that's a projection, one with less information than you have in hindsight.

    Already explained I don't give a **** about the award.

    So then why can't we pat the guy on the back for overachieving again.

    F yeah I dispute that. In its entirety he was putting forth more effort than most stars and definitely more than seasons past.

    He was totally mvp good, harden might have been better but your nit picking at that point. Last 2 months of the season? Lmao , stop the straws. Harden coasted too, he just has more of a skill based game and is afforded the luxury of another mvp caliber player. Bron definitely shouldered the greater load this year, that much is without question. You can highlight whatever stretch you want, I'm taking the entire sample every time. So focus on that
    Golf clap for shouldering the greater load to far inferior heights.

    It's not nitpicking to say Harden was better. He simply was. And never gave up on the team at any point of the season. Hence why he will rightfully be the clear MVP.

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    That's not a barometer that's a projection, one with less information than you have in hindsight.

    Already explained I don't give a **** about the award.

    So then why can't we pat the guy on the back for overachieving again.

    F yeah I dispute that. In its entirety he was putting forth more effort than most stars and definitely more than seasons past.

    He was totally mvp good, harden might have been better but your nit picking at that point. Last 2 months of the season? Lmao , stop the straws. Harden coasted too, he just has more of a skill based game and is afforded the luxury of another mvp caliber player. Bron definitely shouldered the greater load this year, that much is without question. You can highlight whatever stretch you want, I'm taking the entire sample every time. So focus on that
    First Bolded: How the heck did they overachieve? They are a middling team in a weak East who just got crushed Game 1, with LeBron James. They overachieved because their team was a mess before the trade deadline? Again, that "mess" of a team went 18-1 at one point, then LeBron starts playing like poop and they do bad and suddenly the team is trash?

    Second Bolded: In it's entirety is a nice way of glossing over an entire month of games where he completely checked out. Again, the reason he had to work so hard "in entirety" is because he was so lazy for that month. If I'm racing Usain Bolt and he is jogging behind me to start the race and then at the end he runs as fast as he can to beat me, I'm not going to give him praise for trying so hard at the end because had he tried even a little bit at the beginning, he would have beaten me without the need to run so hard at the end.

    Third Bolded: If Harden also coasted then he is the clear MVP because he still outplayed LeBron even while coasting. If that is truly the case, we may have to start asking if Harden is simply the better player than LeBron at this point if he can just coast and outplay him. As for having another MVP player, sure that helps, but CP3 missed a lot of time and Harden actually played better with him out so that excuse doesn't really hold true.

    LeBron's season can be summed up thusly: LeBron stopped trying in January and as a result had to try really hard in February and March.

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