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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Here's the ultimate question, if their situations were reversed, and Harden had the inferior stats, had coasted for parts of the season, but had had a ton of dysfunction and the Rockets had made a mid-season trade where as LeBron was on a team vastly exceeding expectations and putting up historic numbers (both individually and as a team) and was on the #1 seed.

    Who would everyone be picking for MVP? I imagine almost everybody would be picking LeBron James, so there's a bit of a double standard there. If Harden were on the Cavs with Bron's exact stats and the Cavs exact record vs LeBron on Houston with Harden's exact stats and Houston's exact record, LeBron would likely win unanimous MVP.
    No doubt LeBron would win unanimously.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Yeah bron should have totally forgo that legendary title for cap flexibility.

    You're wrong, the bench was a strength primarily because bron played with the worst players outside of love. All those bench units killed it when bron was out there. Given the turmoil, to end up with the same record and far above expected value, bron is the easy runner up. The Cavs have been meh but not everyone is blessed with talent that could win without an arguable goat
    To your first point, what are you talking about? Lol. Not sure if you realize that they have not won a title since either of those signed, or what your point there is at all.

    To the 2nd point, even with your hilarious caveat of "besides the 20/10 All Star Power Forward, the bench was better", who cares? They were winning games more often than not when Lebron and Love were sitting, and the bench was doing the heavy lifting. You'd hope to be more than treading water with the greatest player on the planet + an All Star if we're going to go around parading him as the MVP. But, the fact is that they weren't. We're not here to give the b2b2 Eastern Conference champs kudos because they out-clutched/lucked their way into beating out their end of the season "expected value" of 43 wins. The reason their expected value is what it is (if you have not put this together), is because good teams have beat the **** out of them, and they have beat the **** out of bad teams. That's why they have so few close games, are sub .500 against teams with a winning record, and have a net +/- just above 0.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Here's the ultimate question, if their situations were reversed, and Harden had the inferior stats, had coasted for parts of the season, but had had a ton of dysfunction and the Rockets had made a mid-season trade where as LeBron was on a team vastly exceeding expectations and putting up historic numbers (both individually and as a team) and was on the #1 seed.

    Who would everyone be picking for MVP? I imagine almost everybody would be picking LeBron James, so there's a bit of a double standard there. If Harden were on the Cavs with Bron's exact stats and the Cavs exact record vs LeBron on Houston with Harden's exact stats and Houston's exact record, LeBron would likely win unanimous MVP.
    Literally nobody would make the case that Harden is the MVP. Especially Harden (we're looking at you Lebron).

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I care. They did not exceed expectations. Bron is the established leader of the team. if multiple guys under perform and the team has trouble gelling he takes some of the Heat. Thatís how being a leader works.


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    Ditto. Well said friend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  5. #125
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    Lebron SHOULD win MVP. He won't though.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I care. They did not exceed expectations. Bron is the established leader of the team. if multiple guys under perform and the team has trouble gelling he takes some of the Heat. Thatís how being a leader works.

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    You vote MVP based on a team exceeding expectations? Lol. Though to be fair, the majority seem to do so (which is why Casey will win COTY).

    I'd suggest use the obvious and better criteria by voting for the best player instead. We rarely have this problem when voting DPOY.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    Lebron SHOULD win MVP. He won't though.
    Why? Why should he win MVP? I'm so sick of this "should" ********. People keep saying that, but I haven't seen a single legitimate case for why.

    Quote Originally Posted by numba1CHANGsta View Post
    Just trust me, Hou wont make it all the way to the WCF 😉
    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    Houston may make the WCF again, but barring injuries they are no longer a serious threat this year imo.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Why? Why should he win MVP? I'm so sick of this "should" ********. People keep saying that, but I haven't seen a single legitimate case for why.
    I'm kinda late to the party. I can provide an explanation if you really want it but I wouldn't be saying anything that probably has not been said in this thread (I'll probably just copy and paste to save time) and everything I'll probably say has already been argued against.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I'm not blaming LeBron for that. LeBron performed very well for parts of the season, but he clearly coasted through other parts.

    I think he's the best player in the league, but that is not who gets the MVP. He did not play as well as Harden in the regular season.

    And yes, to an extent expectations are arbitrary, but they are a huge influence on MVP. LeBron got beat by Rose in part because of LeBron fatigue/hatred, but in part because the Bulls vastly exceeded expectations. Nash won his 2nd MVP because everybody thought they'd do worse without Amare and they exceeded those expectations.

    Harden and the Rockets have far exceeded expectations. That is why Harden is going to win and not LeBron despite LeBron being the superior player when he tries.
    And that's a bit of a shame.

    Do we ever have this much of a problem when voting DPOY? I certainly hope people are voting for the best defensive players in the league and not because they looked good and/or are better defensively than expected, otherwise Durant would be DPOY this year.

  10. #130
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    Iím sorry, you can make a case for ĎBron if you want, but Harden without question should win MVP unanimously imo. Iím not down with rewarding a guy whoís been a contributing factor to the Cavs roller coaster season.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    So once their expectations changed once again after the trade are we holding the Cavs to those expectations or to the expectations we had with the old cast knowing they were garbage?
    Let's just **** the expectations.

    That's the mentality that cost James Harden the MVP over Westbrook last year. We all knew Harden played better than Westbrook by the end of the year. But because Westbrook exceed expectations by averaging a triple double (when most people didn't think to would ever happen in their lifetimes), he won it over the more deserving player. Let's not make the same mistake twice here (not to say Harden has played bad, but let's not water down the award when Lebron and Harden playing essentially an arms reach apart).

    The next ballhog who averages more points than Wilt's 50 per game will probably win MVP too even if he shot the ball as bad as Iverson.
    Last edited by Raps08-09 Champ; 04-10-2018 at 08:47 PM.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    And that's a bit of a shame.

    Do we ever have this much of a problem when voting DPOY? I certainly hope people are voting for the best defensive players in the league and not because they looked good and/or are better defensively than expected, otherwise Durant would be DPOY this year.
    So who do you have for DPOY, Kawhi or Draymond? These two players are the best defenders in the league and have been the last few years. So by the same logic people are claiming for LeBron being MVP, one of these two should be your DPOY.

    Just to make it obvious, neither of these two are deserving of the award this year.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allphakenny1 View Post
    So who do you have for DPOY, Kawhi or Draymond? These two players are the best defenders in the league and have been the last few years. So by the same logic people are claiming for LeBron being MVP, one of these two should be your DPOY.

    Just to make it obvious, neither of these two are deserving of the award this year.
    Ive thought the Rudy was the most impactful defensive player in the league for some time. Heíll win and rightfully so


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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Ive thought the Rudy was the most impactful defensive player in the league for some time. Heíll win and rightfully so


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    I agree he should win this year, but both Kawhi and Draymond have been better for years now. So the argument that LeBron should be MVP because of his history and not actually having to prove it, should that work the same for DPOY? Draymond has not been the elite defender he has been in the past and Kawhi has barely played all season. It would be foolish to claim they should win a award based on this year only because of their past dominance.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Ive thought the Rudy was the most impactful defensive player in the league for some time. Heíll win and rightfully so


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    Draymond rightfully got it last year imo. Insane combo of paint + wing protection that nobody else could match. Gobert probably will win this year. Draymond coasted/wasn't very good, Kawhi was out, and Thabo had a little steam early but he's out. PG might get some votes. Embiid some more. But Gobert (in 55 games played) has the momentum.

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