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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Royals re-sign Mike Moustakas

    https://twitter.com/jeffpassan/statu...39283941535745


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    52,238
    Ouch city. I cant' say I was super stoked on Mouse as a free agent, but a base deal at $6.5m is well under his market. It's paying him under a 1 fWAR player. Hope those incentives are good...
    We're From Philadelphia


    We. Fight.

  3. #3
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    He is going to make for an very interesting trade chip for the Royals in July.
    Screw sabermetics.

  4. #4
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    Total steal. Can't believe nobody wanted to give this guy a decent contract.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    53,548
    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Ouch city. I cant' say I was super stoked on Mouse as a free agent, but a base deal at $6.5m is well under his market. It's paying him under a 1 fWAR player. Hope those incentives are good...
    Just $2.2M available in incentives.

    It's actually only a $5.5M salary, but the buyout on the mutual option next year moves it to $2M


    Def should have taken the QO. Is this above the Stephen Drew and Kendrys Morales situations as worst 'should have' taken the QO deals ever?


    I am surprised nobody topped this deal though. The QO killed him, but even the Yankees probably would have given him a 1/$12M deal. Braves too? Giants maybe before Longo?

    I realize he doesn't get on base. But he is a 2 win player.

  6. #6
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    Aug 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Just $2.2M available in incentives.

    It's actually only a $5.5M salary, but the buyout on the mutual option next year moves it to $2M


    Def should have taken the QO. Is this above the Stephen Drew and Kendrys Morales situations as worst 'should have' taken the QO deals ever?


    I am surprised nobody topped this deal though. The QO killed him, but even the Yankees probably would have given him a 1/$12M deal. Braves too? Giants maybe before Longo?

    I realize he doesn't get on base. But he is a 2 win player.
    Yeah, you don't have to like Moose much (I really don't) to realize he's probably worth twice what he got. At $12m a season, he'd be a fine play for 3-4 years. A deal like Jay Bruce should have easily been in reach for him. 3/$33m or so.
    We're From Philadelphia


    We. Fight.

  7. #7
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    Jul 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Yeah, you don't have to like Moose much (I really don't) to realize he's probably worth twice what he got. At $12m a season, he'd be a fine play for 3-4 years. A deal like Jay Bruce should have easily been in reach for him. 3/$33m or so.
    The QO tanked him.

    That, and he just wasn't all that good.

    He and LoMo and their 38 HR's, just aren't that valuable...just like Chris Carter and his 41 in 2016.

    Honestly, how much better is Mike Moustakas than Ryan Schimpf over the last two years, who has been in DFA limbo?

    https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...yers=9953,4892

  8. #8
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    Jun 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    The QO tanked him.

    That, and he just wasn't all that good.

    He and LoMo and their 38 HR's, just aren't that valuable...just like Chris Carter and his 41 in 2016.

    Honestly, how much better is Mike Moustakas than Ryan Schimpf over the last two years, who has been in DFA limbo?

    https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...yers=9953,4892
    What an interesting yet apt comparison. They take extremely different routes yet end up at the same place.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    What an interesting yet apt comparison. They take extremely different routes yet end up at the same place.
    Shimpf is a total three true outcome, and the example was meant to be an extreme. Moose doesn't strike out much or walk much. But you can get similar value for cheap that Moose gives you (is the point)

  10. #10
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    The QO screwed him and he screwed himself for rejecting the QO as he got paid 1/2 to 1/3 of it.

  11. #11
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    brutal

  12. #12
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    Aug 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    The QO screwed him and he screwed himself for rejecting the QO as he got paid 1/2 to 1/3 of it.
    Unless your a stud, you should take the QO is what I learned from this off season.

    Teams are not going to give up their picks for you and you will get ****ed f you reject it.

    If enough teams start getting stuck paying a guy 17-20 million a year, they will stop offering QO to the next middle of the road guy.

    If your a middle of the road guy and a team is willing to give you 17-20 million for one year?, then take it and be ****ing really happy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #13
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    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Just $2.2M available in incentives.

    It's actually only a $5.5M salary, but the buyout on the mutual option next year moves it to $2M


    Def should have taken the QO. Is this above the Stephen Drew and Kendrys Morales situations as worst 'should have' taken the QO deals ever?


    I am surprised nobody topped this deal though. The QO killed him, but even the Yankees probably would have given him a 1/$12M deal. Braves too? Giants maybe before Longo?

    I realize he doesn't get on base. But he is a 2 win player.
    Kendry's and Drew had first round picks attached and were much older, this is a guy in his prime who hit 40 home runs with a 2nd rounder attached.
    How on earth was a guy like him supposed to know to take the QO?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    The QO tanked him.

    That, and he just wasn't all that good.

    He and LoMo and their 38 HR's, just aren't that valuable...just like Chris Carter and his 41 in 2016.

    Honestly, how much better is Mike Moustakas than Ryan Schimpf over the last two years, who has been in DFA limbo?

    https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...yers=9953,4892
    It's a 2nd rounder not a 1st. I'm not saying collusion is going on, but I'm not.....NOT saying that either.

    IDk if that fair considering he missed an entire year due to injury in 2016, and 2017 was him returning from the injury and he still put up 38 home runs.

  15. #15
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    Jul 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    It's a 2nd rounder not a 1st. I'm not saying collusion is going on, but I'm not.....NOT saying that either.

    IDk if that fair considering he missed an entire year due to injury in 2016, and 2017 was him returning from the injury and he still put up 38 home runs.
    Collusion is a huge acquisition that people keep making, and I can say with 95% certainty, even not working in the sport, that that isn't happening.

    These teams know how bad of a value these guys are.

    It's a 2nd rounder, a 5th rounder, and $1M to their international signing bonuses (depending on which team were to sign him).

    That's more significant than a first rounder.

    And this is for players that aren't really major upgrades for a lot of organizations.

    How many contending teams had worse performances at third base last year than what Moose produced for the Royals?

    Moose produced 2.2 fWAR last year.

    18 teams in baseball produced 2.3 fWAR from third base last year from what they had in house.

    Of the other 11? (excluding the Royals here)

    D'Backs had 2.1, they were a contending team (Jake Lamb is there in 2018) and Lamb was 2.5, just Rosales as a backup was of negative value.
    Also, the D'Backs couldn't afford to bring back Martinez, so they wouldn't be chasing Moose.

    The Angels could potentially be a contending team in 2018. But they signed Cosart without the QO for 3 years and $30 something. And they still got 2.0 fWAR out of 3B from Escobar, Valbuena, and Cowart.

    White Sox are rebuilding
    Rays had Longo and traded him away for financial reasons
    Padres can't get him AND Hosmer
    Marlins can't afford him
    Braves are rebuilding and have a ton of infield prospects that he would just be blocking (I like Riley quite a bit personally)
    Red Sox have Devers
    Phillies have Franco and Crawford, could do better at 3B, seem to have spent their cash on Santana instead
    Giants traded for Longo

    Where was the market going to develop for him?

    The Yankees have a luxury tax concern, reasonably so, and the rest of the league doesn't see him as an upgrade over what they already have, or they have a young player they want to see play there everyday.

    People are blaming collusion, instead of realizing that this free agent market is lackluster, they are Boras clients who thinks they should be getting Ellsbury sized deals everywhere, and the league knows guys over 30 regress rapidly.

    The CBA needs to address how to get players paid better while younger. That will fix it.

    This is certainly not collusion. Or if it is, this isn't enough evidence to paint that picture.



    Btw, 38 home runs in a juiced year where the home run record was broken for a single season.
    He hit 38 home runs with a league average OBP.
    Logan Morrison hit 38 home runs, so did Justin Smoak. Khris Davis hit 43, Jay Bruce hit 36, etc. It's not that impressive when shown in context to what's around him.

    To put this into perspective. He hit 38 home runs. And the league hit 6105. So he hit .0062% of the leagues home runs.

    To compare that to 2014, when the league hit 4186 home runs, that's the equivalent of hitting 26 home runs that year.

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