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  1. #1
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    Why do you accept evolution?

    I read about evolution a lot, but never really came across anything substantiative in regards to actual evidence.

    What is it that sold you on evolution? What thing or few things carry the most weight to you regarding this theory?
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  2. #2
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    It is considered a scientific theory because we don't have the means to recreate it under controlled conditions. In order to accurately test a theory, a scientist must be able to control for any and all factors. It's the same reason why gravity is just considered a theory.

    I believe that evolution is real because the premise is extraordinarily solid. I firmly believe the basic tenet is that it is not the strongest or intelligent species that survives, but the one which adapts best to change.
    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    It is considered a scientific theory because we don't have the means to recreate it under controlled conditions. In order to accurately test a theory, a scientist must be able to control for any and all factors. It's the same reason why gravity is just considered a theory.

    I believe that evolution is real because the premise is extraordinarily solid. I firmly believe the basic tenet is that it is not the strongest or intelligent species that survives, but the one which adapts best to change.
    No, but the premise itself isn't enough to convince you.

    When you were learning about it there must've been certain info that when you came across it you were like ok, I'm sold. Maybe not that instant, but I'm just wondering, when did you go from, bro you're really tryina tell me my great great grandmama was a spider? to oh ****, I guess my great great grandmama WAS a spider! (obvious exaggeration, I know )

    I think the overall premise is solid as hell too, it really makes sense on a lot of levels, physically, genetically, geographically. But I get the vibe that if you don't subscribe to evolution theory people look at you like you're crazy, like its as obvious a fact as liquid water freezing to solid ice. So I'm just wondering what is so obviously factual about it, or what is it about this theory that makes you think if someone isn't sold on it that they must be completely out there. My feeling is that there are a lot of gaps in this theory that are presented as non gaps. I'm not necessarily drawing a conclusion from that, but just something I noticed
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  4. #4
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    The word "theory" in a scientific context is often confused with the use of the word in a vernacular context where it is akin to a hunch or a guess.

    But a scientific theory is a well-founded explanation. It is never "elevated" to a "fact" or a "law" as those are simple concepts that are easily proven. A scientific theory, however, can only be demonstrated using laws and facts. And it is only as good as the facts that are available. Quite often, new information will come to light that will invalidate a theory or even clarify it or modify it.

    In the case of Darwin's Theory of Relativity using Natural Selection, information in the last century or so, like the discovery of DNA, has served to strengthen the theory.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    The word "theory" in a scientific context is often confused with the use of the word in a vernacular context where it is akin to a hunch or a guess.

    But a scientific theory is a well-founded explanation. It is never "elevated" to a "fact" or a "law" as those are simple concepts that are easily proven. A scientific theory, however, can only be demonstrated using laws and facts. And it is only as good as the facts that are available. Quite often, new information will come to light that will invalidate a theory or even clarify it or modify it.

    In the case of Darwin's Theory of Relativity using Natural Selection, information in the last century or so, like the discovery of DNA, has served to strengthen the theory.
    Sure, so I guess I'm asking what is it that is so obviously true about this theory? What facts that you look at it and it makes evolution so obviously true?

    For example, from the other thread in religion, I can tell you what is so obviously true about gravity, and that is the fact that we see it, the entire movement of planets and moons and asteroids, even satellites actually, we can SEE that there is a relation between mass and a force of attraction as you near that mass. Wether that validates the entire gravitational theory, I don't know, I don't even know the specifics of that theory, but I can tell you very clear and obvious that there is something going on regarding an objects mass and a force of attraction on objects around it.

    Is there anything like this regarding evolution, that makes you feel so certain?
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Sure, so I guess I'm asking what is it that is so obviously true about this theory? What facts that you look at it and it makes evolution so obviously true?

    For example, from the other thread in religion, I can tell you what is so obviously true about gravity, and that is the fact that we see it, the entire movement of planets and moons and asteroids, even satellites actually, we can SEE that there is a relation between mass and a force of attraction as you near that mass. Wether that validates the entire gravitational theory, I don't know, I don't even know the specifics of that theory, but I can tell you very clear and obvious that there is something going on regarding an objects mass and a force of attraction on objects around it.

    Is there anything like this regarding evolution, that makes you feel so certain?
    Well, other than the shared characteristics we can spot among man and monkey, dogs and wolves, cats and tigers, etc, there isn't too much blatantly intuitive about evolution before delving into the research.

    And i haven't done any of the research. I've only read about it. So to me, what is true about it is that is based on science, i.e. the scientific method, rather than supernatural belief, which cannot be studied.

    Science is often not intutive. For instance, Newton's explanation of gravity couldnt explain how the planets orbited. Einstein's explanation did even though it was probably less intuitive than Newton's.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Well, other than the shared characteristics we can spot among man and monkey, dogs and wolves, cats and tigers, etc, there isn't too much blatantly intuitive about evolution before delving into the research.

    And i haven't done any of the research. I've only read about it. So to me, what is true about it is that is based on science, i.e. the scientific method, rather than supernatural belief, which cannot be studied.

    Science is often not intutive. For instance, Newton's explanation of gravity couldnt explain how the planets orbited. Einstein's explanation did even though it was probably less intuitive than Newton's.
    I didn't really mean to ask what's intuitive, more like what's so blatant about it?

    In all honesty, evolution does seem kinda intuitive to me in some ways, everything's like on a spectrum, you can see ants and then wasps, and that's **** is basically like a queen ant, it's some crazy ****. It def makes sense in a lot of ways.

    In some ways it's def counter intuitive too, haha, for real

    To some degree it's that you weren't specifically sold on evolution, but you're sold on the scientific method
    Last edited by nastynice; 02-26-2018 at 01:41 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I didn't really mean to ask what's intuitive, more like what's so blatant about it?

    In all honesty, evolution does seem kinda intuitive to me in some ways, everything's like on a spectrum, you can see ants and then wasps, and that's **** is basically like a queen ant, it's some crazy ****. It def makes sense in a lot of ways.

    In some ways it's def counter intuitive too, haha, for real

    To some degree it's that you weren't specifically sold on evolution, but you're sold on the scientific method
    How is evolution counter intuitive?

    My two cents, that completely gets ignored by a certain someone in a certain thread, is that a theory is not tested by searching for evidence for, it's truly tested by searching for evidence against. A theory is a idea about how the world works based on on current observable evidence, that one can make falsifiable predictions about. Macro evolution is particularly hard to deal with because true experiments with it are very hard. (true experiments involve manipulation of one variable to see the outcome of another controling for all other relevant factors). There have been a few things shown with very simple organisms, like bacteria and viruses, but it's hard to generalize what happens in a bacteria to what happens in an multi-cellular organism.

    For those interested this guy is likely the foremost expert and here is a review article on the topic. https://www.researchgate.net/profile...adaptation.pdf

    As far as knowing the actual evidence... well think about this... we all know that the earth revolves around the sun... but do you know HOW we know that? I don't mean the history, but could you honestly say how we know it without looking that **** up. Something about the movement of the other planets and the way light hits the earth or some such thing.. but I can't tell you....

    I am a scientist, but I am far afield of evolutionary biology. So I don't know the evidence the way the people who wrote the article above. I have the same understanding of the answer to what is the evidence for evolution along the lines of how do we know the earth revolves around the sun... But if you want one bit of info that I think is spectacular circumstantial evidence... we share 60% of our DNA with a ****ing bannana. How the **** does that happen if life doesn't evolve over time from some similar form.
    Last edited by flips333; 03-01-2018 at 09:25 AM.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    It is considered a scientific theory because we don't have the means to recreate it under controlled conditions. In order to accurately test a theory, a scientist must be able to control for any and all factors. It's the same reason why gravity is just considered a theory.

    I believe that evolution is real because the premise is extraordinarily solid. I firmly believe the basic tenet is that it is not the strongest or intelligent species that survives, but the one which adapts best to change.
    I thought it was a matter of semantics. Basically "scientific theory" is a much different thing than colloquial "theory". I can be in a meeting and someone can say "in theory we will achieve that", but applied in science, it would really be a hypothesis.

    Scientific theory means an explanation of the processes involved in something that is fact. That is; there's the fact of evolution (the slow change of living things over time by adaptation and mutation) and the how and why is explained by the "theory of evolution". Am I off in that?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post

    What is it that sold you on evolution?
    Goose bumps, tailbone and appendix.

  11. #11
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    Another thread in religion made me think of this, is evolution falsifiable?

    I ask because I see almost a double standard regarding evolution. For example, I was told that the fact that apes have 24 chromosomes and humans have 23 chromosomes but one of the chromosome (#2) is fused, and so that backs up evolution theory. Well if that's the case, then doesn't the fact that lemurs (or whatever apes came from) have 26 chromosomes, isn't that then an evidence against evolution?

  12. #12
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    One thing that always comes to mind is the things we have done with selective breeding. Hard to believe that you can start with a wolf and end up with the hundreds of different dog breeds with several distinctive characteristics. This is because we control the breeding. But that's sort of how it happens in the wild. A group of a species breaks off from the main group and isn't able to or stops breeding with the rest of the main group. All of the mutations that happen in one group don't get bred into the other group and over those years enough mutations happen to make it a different species. I'm a believer anyways, but when I look at it that way it tends to make alotta sense.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    One thing that always comes to mind is the things we have done with selective breeding. Hard to believe that you can start with a wolf and end up with the hundreds of different dog breeds with several distinctive characteristics. This is because we control the breeding. But that's sort of how it happens in the wild. A group of a species breaks off from the main group and isn't able to or stops breeding with the rest of the main group. All of the mutations that happen in one group don't get bred into the other group and over those years enough mutations happen to make it a different species. I'm a believer anyways, but when I look at it that way it tends to make alotta sense.
    Reminds me of a great dialogue I witnessed between 2 coworkers years ago. One was a devout Christian attorney (like Bible classes after work twice a week) and one was a science savvy IT guy.

    IT guy: I adopted a dog yesterday. Got a beagle.
    Me: Did you know the reason they have such long ears is so when they lean down to sniff, the hanging ears help guide the scent even more to their nose? Makes them great hunting dogs.
    IT guy: Yeah I read about that.
    Attorney: See, that's just another reason I believe in god. It's amazing what he's done.
    IT guy: Actually we bred that trait into the dogs to make them better at tracking and hunting.
    Attorney: [going from 0 to 60 in 1.2 seconds] OH WHAT, SO YOU'RE ALSO GONNA TELL ME WE ALL CAME FROM AMOEBAS?? I'm not buying it.
    IT guy: .........................uh no. I'm just telling you how beagles got long ears.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Reminds me of a great dialogue I witnessed between 2 coworkers years ago. One was a devout Christian attorney (like Bible classes after work twice a week) and one was a science savvy IT guy.

    IT guy: I adopted a dog yesterday. Got a beagle.
    Me: Did you know the reason they have such long ears is so when they lean down to sniff, the hanging ears help guide the scent even more to their nose? Makes them great hunting dogs.
    IT guy: Yeah I read about that.
    Attorney: See, that's just another reason I believe in god. It's amazing what he's done.
    IT guy: Actually we bred that trait into the dogs to make them better at tracking and hunting.
    Attorney: [going from 0 to 60 in 1.2 seconds] OH WHAT, SO YOU'RE ALSO GONNA TELL ME WE ALL CAME FROM AMOEBAS?? I'm not buying it.
    IT guy: .........................uh no. I'm just telling you how beagles got long ears.
    Then the "it's amazing what he's done" changes into "He works in mysterious ways" when the conversation moves from long-eared dogs to deformed children.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  15. #15
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    https://dogbehaviorscience.wordpress...d-improvement/


    Obviously God made humans change dogs, it was his intention.
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