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  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    Zaza was regarded as 'dirty' before he joined the Warriors. That has absolutely nothing to do with it.
    Yup. Being on the Warriors, of course it'll be magnified even more. That doesn't mean he didn't have that reputation before tho. When you're on the best teams, a team that gets a lot of coverage, of course you'll have that spotlight more than if you played on a crappy team that no one watches.

  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    agreed. I do think people are holding his rep against him on a play where you can't tell if it was on purpose but its not b/c he is a Warrior. If Thompson or Livingston was involved in the same play no one would have batted and eye. i think its b/c its Zaza not b/c it's a Warrior
    100% agreed.

    I looked at it from every angle... my response is 'meh'. I don't care about it but I won't say Zaza made a dirty play or was intentionally trying to hurt Westy. He's a goofball for sure and has a history of making questionable/dirty plays, so that's what people are allowing to factor in.

    And you know what? Tough ****. He has a reputation and it's all because of him, so he has to live with it. There's no reason for Dubs fans to assume people are judging him because of his team.
    The Baker is coming.


  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    I get that being on the Warriors and jumping under Kawhi or jumping on Westbrook now are more of an exposure than pulling dirty moves years ago as a Mav or Buck or Hawk, but it doesn't mean that people weren't talking about it then and remembering him for it now.



    They don't personally remember so it must not have been a thing.
    I don't remember it or ever seeing a reaction against him be this strong. He could have been and that's partially why I'm not jumping into this debate as my knowledge of him is predominately of him as a warrior. Thus making anything I say on him being dirty or not come off as either bias or ignorant... two things I try my best not to be.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    Zaza was regarded as 'dirty' before he joined the Warriors. That has absolutely nothing to do with it.
    I didn't watch enough of him prior to the warriors to say one way or the other. I would comment that in today's NBA centers are expected to be the enforcers and the line can be blurred. I'd also say with confidence that the reaction to this play if he was a Hawk still or Mav or Nets would be very different than what it is.

    Adams is an enforcer for OKC and I've seen the blurred line of is that dirty or not with him but I don't see the same reactions to in that Zaza is getting.

  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueFan420 View Post
    I didn't watch enough of him prior to the warriors to say one way or the other. I would comment that in today's NBA centers are expected to be the enforcers and the line can be blurred. I'd also say with confidence that the reaction to this play if he was a Hawk still or Mav or Nets would be very different than what it is.

    Adams is an enforcer for OKC and I've seen the blurred line of is that dirty or not with him but I don't see the same reactions to in that Zaza is getting.
    The line between dirty and enforcer can definitely be blurred. I can all too often we confused dirty with 'cheap' or 'underhanded'. Everyone has their own definition for the word dirty. It's just hard not believe a guy like Zaza isn't dirty when the events have been so frequent in his career.

    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/a-v...ia-cheap-shots

    ^^those are just most of his well-known situations, but he has been involved in a TON of scuffles in his career.

    I mean, how many times does the bonafide superstar on the opposing team gets knocked out of the 1st game of a huge WCF showdown because of an 'enforcer' with a bad reputation/history of cheap plays? That NEVER happens.

    I get your POV but you gotta kinda understand how it makes others feel. Adams hasn't had nearly the kind of history that Zaza has had. Rather than getting defensive, I think Zaza/Dubs fans gotta kind shrug and say, "Yeah, not really gonna argue on whether or not his plays are dirty because I'd certainly feel some kinda way if he was doing this to my guys." And that's it, no big deal.
    The Baker is coming.


  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    Rather than getting defensive, I think Zaza/Dubs fans gotta kind shrug and say, "Yeah, not really gonna argue on whether or not his plays are dirty because I'd certainly feel some kinda way if he was doing this to my guys." And that's it, no big deal.
    Two way street. There's no Dubs fans actually defending it in its entirety, or saying that play is all kosher, more just poking fun of the extreme reactions.

    If you were to read some of these responses you'd think something major and obvious happened
    Last edited by nastynice; 02-27-2018 at 04:59 PM.

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Two way street. There's no Dubs fans actually defending it in its entirety, or saying that play is all kosher, more just poking fun of the extreme reactions.

    If you were to read some of these responses you'd think something major and obvious happened
    Extreme reactions are the nature of sports fans. Dubs (and any other fans) react the same. Some of you guys were calling foul against Motiejunas and even against Houston for the slippery spot that caused Curry's MCL sprain. Yep, I remember that.

    Still, Zaza has his history and so you gotta 'feel' other people for how they view him, you know? I don't think the play on Westbrook was dirty but at this point, I'm not gonna really push against someone who think they saw differently because of Zaza's history.
    The Baker is coming.


  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    The line between dirty and enforcer can definitely be blurred. I can all too often we confused dirty with 'cheap' or 'underhanded'. Everyone has their own definition for the word dirty. It's just hard not believe a guy like Zaza isn't dirty when the events have been so frequent in his career.

    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/a-v...ia-cheap-shots

    ^^those are just most of his well-known situations, but he has been involved in a TON of scuffles in his career.

    I mean, how many times does the bonafide superstar on the opposing team gets knocked out of the 1st game of a huge WCF showdown because of an 'enforcer' with a bad reputation/history of cheap plays? That NEVER happens.

    I get your POV but you gotta kinda understand how it makes others feel. Adams hasn't had nearly the kind of history that Zaza has had. Rather than getting defensive, I think Zaza/Dubs fans gotta kind shrug and say, "Yeah, not really gonna argue on whether or not his plays are dirty because I'd certainly feel some kinda way if he was doing this to my guys." And that's it, no big deal.
    I'm sure he has plenty of clips. He's been in the league a long time. When Adams is at the same point I suspect he will have as many clips. I watched a lot of those clips and some I don't view as an issue and some are questionable on his part. But it all comes back to your first paragraph... people all have different definitions.

    Yes he got a lot of spotlight for what happened with Leonard in the WCF but that's not a dirty I'm trying to hurt the other player view if Leonard doesn't get hurt. You see that happen multiple times a game. Because he got hurt Zaza is invloved it's dirty. So I guess want I want to know is where do people draw their line? Is it the play, is the players involved (if that was there 10th man do people care?), the importance of the game, etc?

    I understand how it makes others feel but that doesn't mean it's right. People didn't make a fuss when it was brought to light that the nuggets were targeting Currys ankles in the playoffs way back when, when Mark Jackson was still coach. I'm not commenting cause I haven't watched enough of him and clips never tell the whole story. And cause I've seen how most conversations play out on here. Few actually have interest in real dialogue.

  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    Extreme reactions are the nature of sports fans. Dubs (and any other fans) react the same. Some of you guys were calling foul against Motiejunas and even against Houston for the slippery spot that caused Curry's MCL sprain. Yep, I remember that.

    Still, Zaza has his history and so you gotta 'feel' other people for how they view him, you know? I don't think the play on Westbrook was dirty but at this point, I'm not gonna really push against someone who think they saw differently because of Zaza's history.
    Haha, who wanted a foul for that slip?!?

    If someone feels Zaza was shady on that play, I got no issue with that. But if someone gonna sound off about **** that video shows is clearly not true, then that's something else.

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueFan420 View Post

    I understand how it makes others feel but that doesn't mean it's right. People didn't make a fuss when it was brought to light that the nuggets were targeting Currys ankles in the playoffs way back when, when Mark Jackson was still coach. I'm not commenting cause I haven't watched enough of him and clips never tell the whole story. And cause I've seen how most conversations play out on here. Few actually have interest in real dialogue.
    Oh yea, back when we won enough for people to enjoy watching, but not so much that it made them angry

    I miss being the popular kid

  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueFan420 View Post
    I'm sure he has plenty of clips. He's been in the league a long time. When Adams is at the same point I suspect he will have as many clips. I watched a lot of those clips and some I don't view as an issue and some are questionable on his part. But it all comes back to your first paragraph... people all have different definitions.

    Yes he got a lot of spotlight for what happened with Leonard in the WCF but that's not a dirty I'm trying to hurt the other player view if Leonard doesn't get hurt. You see that happen multiple times a game. Because he got hurt Zaza is invloved it's dirty. So I guess want I want to know is where do people draw their line? Is it the play, is the players involved (if that was there 10th man do people care?), the importance of the game, etc?

    I understand how it makes others feel but that doesn't mean it's right. People didn't make a fuss when it was brought to light that the nuggets were targeting Currys ankles in the playoffs way back when, when Mark Jackson was still coach. I'm not commenting cause I haven't watched enough of him and clips never tell the whole story. And cause I've seen how most conversations play out on here. Few actually have interest in real dialogue.
    But it is viewed as dirty regardless of what happens to the player shooting the ball. The extra step on the closeout was questionable - doesn't matter if you subjectively feel one way or another about it.

    That's my point. We all fall on one side or the other of the subjective line. Some feel it's dirty, some don't. But what you can't change is how OFTEN a player is involved in said questionable plays. And Zaza's career is full of them.

    At what point do you acknowledge someone IS dirty? Do they have to make a diving tackle at someone's legs? Do they gotta put someone in a Ric Flair figure four leg-lock?

    Remember the uproar about Dahntay Jones elbowing that no-name Raptors player last year? You probably don't, but I do (his fine almost equaled his entire salary for the year). Dahntay Jones has a reputation for being a dirty player. People got loud about it, even if it was for a brief moment. To some degree, the players involved do matter because people are concerned about watching a good product on the floor. But that doesn't mean they care less about the nature of dirty plays in general.

    I guess I don't get the issue with how people view Zaza. Wouldn't you say he deserves it?
    The Baker is coming.


  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Haha, who wanted a foul for that slip?!?

    If someone feels Zaza was shady on that play, I got no issue with that. But if someone gonna sound off about **** that video shows is clearly not true, then that's something else.
    You're kinda contradicting yourself with the bolded.

    People are gonna see things differently in a video because it's their own interpretation of it. So while you say, "X isn't true" they'll be like, "But he clearly position his arm here, so X is true!".

    Doesn't mean you have to agree with their view, but part of not having an issue with people perceiving some shadiness on that play is accepting their interpretation of the video.
    Last edited by Vee-Rex; 02-27-2018 at 05:48 PM.
    The Baker is coming.


  13. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    You're kinda contradicting yourself with the bolded.

    People are gonna see things differently in a video because it's their own interpretation of it. So while you say, "X isn't true" they'll be like, "But he clearly position his arm here, so X is true!".

    Doesn't mean you have to agree with their view, but part of not having an issue with people perceiving some shadiness on that play is accepting their interpretation of the video.
    What I'm saying like, if you think he a dirty player and it seems too coincidental to be a coincidence, fine.

    But if you gonna say he didn't brace his fall, or he fell without being touched, then that's just not accepting video that we can all see

    That doesn't have to necessarily contradict each other

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Remember when people said bogut was dirty cuz he gets away with fouls? lol
    That was the system that Kerr teaches. Those fouls that usually weren't called did them pretty well.

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    That was the system that Kerr teaches. Those fouls that usually weren't called did them pretty well.
    As did it the rest of the league, Houston in our playoff series in particular

    There is nothing special about the warriors regarding moving screens

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