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View Poll Results: Should SVG be fired if the Pistons fail to make the playoffs?

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  • Yes

    6 85.71%
  • No

    0 0%
  • Cocaine is a hell of a drug

    1 14.29%
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Results 61 to 75 of 125
  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWO35 View Post
    I think this team has mailed it in...Just rewind back to November/December. The Pistons were on a roll and atop the Eastern Conference. We were the talk of the NBA and the surprise team with the addition of Avery Bradley who was actually playing good. And then what happened? We began to struggle, what use to work didn't anymore. Then we acquire Blake Griffin, went on a brief winning streak and managed to climb 1/2 a game from the 8th spot. And guess what happened? We began to struggle again...SVG sucks at adjusting. Simple. He sticks with something for so long and once it's played out he continues to do it expecting different results. Players go through hot & cold streaks. Lineup adjustments are needed, rotation adjustments are needed. If Ish is having a bad stretch of games, start Buycks or Nelson. Hell Ennis just now is getting starting time at SF, it was probably needed 3 or 4 games prior to his 1st start. And what the hell happened to Luke Kennard? We're going nowhere fast and our lottery pick can't even sniff the court unless its garbage time?

    And for whatever its worth ESPN First Take decided to take a break from slobbing on LBJ to discuss how inept SVG is at coaching and being the Pres. of basketball of operations. Interesting...SAS basically been saying everything everyone in Detroit has been saying about SVG. Max had an interesting take, saying building the team around Drummond in today's NBA is the cause for the Pistons woes and adding Blake Griffin to the mix only makes it worse. I'm sure we all heard this as well...but Max probably went another step further saying the Pistons should trade Drummond and attempt to build around Griffin as well. Drummond trade talks have seriously subsided since Blake got here and I've seen more "Trade Blake in the offseason" ideas than "Trade Drummond" ideas. He also mentioned Drummond's value in the league is probably significantly less than what his #s would usually bring in due to today's game. I actually agree with this and all we have to do is look at what the Kings got in Cousins, not much.
    Mailing it in - completely agree.

    We went thru a 7 game losing streak in Nov and then another just before Reggie went down - IIRC. We weren't as good as we appeared to be during the initial part of the season. Remember, we came back and beat the Clips when they were undefeated (5-0, but undefeated is undefeated and they still were starting Beverly) and also came back against the Warriors.

    I don't think were as bad as those two ~7 game losing streaks, which speaks directly to your adjustments comment. I've addressed the Blake trade - but summarizing 1) if Blake is healthy he's a top 20-25 player in the NBA and no top 25 player FA is signing with us, 2) giving Avery ~15-17M minimum and then having to resign Harris next summer to 20-22M minimum (assuming his 3 pt shot is here to stay) really offsets Blake's contract. The question is: which "team" is better. IMHO, we are better with Blake.

    Drummond, is going to be a 15/15 with 3 assists and 2 blocks per night going forward - as I see it - and is only 24. I keep him. DJ of the Clips gets a lot of press, but he's not putting up those numbers consistently going forward and he's 30 in July. So build around Blake and Dre.

    The Warriors are an anomaly. They've got two of the top 15 players in their prime (Curry & Durant) at 34 & 25M respectively. And a great contract of Thompson in his prime at 17M thru next summer. The guy who sets the tone is Green and he can guard most 5s on many nights. That gives the flexibility to do many things on the O end than they would be able to, if they had to play a more traditional 5 most of the time. Zaza is averaging 16 mins per game the last two years.

    Houston will have to re-up Paul at 25-30M minimum while paying Harden 38M starting in 2019 with ~7% increases. So if we're looking at who to build around RIGHT NOW, Blake at 29 on Mar-18 and Drummond at 24, it's not as bad as some people paint it. Again, the Warriors are an anomaly, if George stays in OKC, they make some noise, but who are we going to get for Blake or Dre, with teams knowing we're selling low?

    So, it comes down to coaching. Being only 11 games above .500 with a healthy RJ in the last 3 years points more to him and SVG than anything else. I'm guessing here, but that's about a season and a half+ worth of games. Roughly 135 games (20 in the year we traded for him, 75 the year we made the playoffs, and 40 combined last year and this year when he was healthy). That's a 73-62 record We need to be better than that if SVG believes he is making RJ & Dre' our core (before the Blake trade). Yes, we are a different team with RJ, but how much of a different team? Ish isn't a good comparison because he's not a starting level PG on a contending team.

    The hard core is: bring RJ back on 25-Mar or so, let people see he's healthy, rip off 6 of 8 or something and see if you can flip him for a more dynamic PG. If he is the "3rd of the Big 3, then we need to see better than +11 over 130 games. SVGs drafts have put us in the hole. Sure, the contracts don't help, but he's whiffed on 3 straight drafts - if you use playing time as a measurement. At worst its 2, with Ellenson being picked 18th. But two lottery picks are not providing what we need. Hopefully SJ improves the rest of the season and see what you can get for him.

    As SVG's bro says: This is a make or miss league.

    SVG has said "it's on me" too many times to get a pass anymore. That's the bottom line.
    Last edited by markbutter; 03-07-2018 at 12:58 PM.

  2. #62
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    something annoying: Bucks just tossed a 10 day contract at Brandon Jennings.

    With the issues we've had at pg why didn't we jump at this chance weeks ago? He was pretty decent while here, unless maybe he refused to come here because we basically got rid of him in favor of Reggie. Wish I could know insider talks about the team to have an idea if he was ever discussed

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    something annoying: Bucks just tossed a 10 day contract at Brandon Jennings.

    With the issues we've had at pg why didn't we jump at this chance weeks ago? He was pretty decent while here, unless maybe he refused to come here because we basically got rid of him in favor of Reggie. Wish I could know insider talks about the team to have an idea if he was ever discussed
    Well, assuming SVG views Reggie coming back in 7-10 days, and Ish as the backup - it wouldn't surprise me Jennings may have said no. Plus, I think we'd have to drop somebody - obviously Buycks or Jameer. At this point, depending on cost, maybe Gores said no.

    Other topic: It's never a good sign when the owner is on record saying he'll discuss the coaches future after the season. Maybe it's just the president title, but - I think it's really how we finish with Reggie back - even if it's just for the last 7-10 games. In the last 8 games, we'll be playing 3 teams with seeding implications (most likely): Wash, Philly & Toronto. So even if we are out by that point, Gores has to be looking at what he's got going into next season - and by that - as mentioned earlier - us not mailing it in.

  4. #64
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    I think SVG loses his front office position, but keeps his coaching gig. Gores likes him from everything that I understand.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizardking13 View Post
    I think SVG loses his front office position, but keeps his coaching gig. Gores likes him from everything that I understand.
    Agreed. SVG put the team together and it's the last year of his contract. I'd like to see Gores perhaps do a 1+ 1 so SVG is a lame coach mid season if we're struggling.

    In other news - Dre' is 3rd in top 25 under 25. Behind Booker and Mitchell. Both guys who we should have drafted and had on our board. That's why SVG needs to lose the other title.

  6. #66
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    It's time for Stan Van Gundy to go!

    Quote Originally Posted by markbutter View Post
    Agreed. SVG put the team together and it's the last year of his contract. I'd like to see Gores perhaps do a 1+ 1 so SVG is a lame coach mid season if we're struggling.

    In other news - Dre' is 3rd in top 25 under 25. Behind Booker and Mitchell. Both guys who we should have drafted and had on our board. That's why SVG needs to lose the other title.
    I remember the consensus was Booker was behind both SJ and Winslow, so Iíll give him a pass for not taking him, but not drafting Mitchell after his reported great workout is a definite no no for me
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbutter View Post
    Agreed. SVG put the team together and it's the last year of his contract. I'd like to see Gores perhaps do a 1+ 1 so SVG is a lame coach mid season if we're struggling.

    In other news - Dre' is 3rd in top 25 under 25. Behind Booker and Mitchell. Both guys who we should have drafted and had on our board. That's why SVG needs to lose the other title.
    huh? Towns? Davis? Giannis? Embiid? all under 25, what am I missing?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    huh? Towns? Davis? Giannis? Embiid? all under 25, what am I missing?
    I ***'d up.

    Dre' is 12 behind Booker & Mitchell. I'm an idiot and just read the snippets.

    The top 5 on the list, put together by Pelton, Bobby Marks and Chris Herring:

    Giannis Antetokounmpo, Anthony Davis, Joel Embiid, Karl-Anthony Towns and Nikola Jokic.

  9. #69
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    I think you're correct, but he wasn't that far behind.

    At the time, SVG was going to run a 1/4 with Dre' down low - like he did in Orlando. That should have meant surrounding Dre' with shooters and both SJ & Winslow had questions about their jumper, and still do 3 years later.

    So I don't give him a pass.

  10. #70
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    We needed shooters and Booker was arguably the best shooter in the class...If my memory serves me correctly Booker was probably talked as the 3rd option with Winslow being 1 and Stanley #2. Many didn't want Stanley due to his horrible shooting (spoiler alert: He still sucks at shooting). Winslow was the popular choice while Booker was the darkhorse choice.

    Kennard v Mitchell was a tossup IMO. Fans seemed to like both but acknowledged Mitchell was more of a sexy albeit risky pick. I was okay with the Kennard pick and was actually worrisome of Mitchell as well, but guess what? I didn't scout, attend his games, or go through the motions that a regular NBA scout does. There's a reason the Jazz traded up for him. They saw something SVG and the Pistons didn't unfortunately.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ahoda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    and Syracuse has sucked for years
    Wish my wife's name was Syracuse.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWO35 View Post
    We needed shooters and Booker was arguably the best shooter in the class...If my memory serves me correctly Booker was probably talked as the 3rd option with Winslow being 1 and Stanley #2. Many didn't want Stanley due to his horrible shooting (spoiler alert: He still sucks at shooting). Winslow was the popular choice while Booker was the darkhorse choice.

    Kennard v Mitchell was a tossup IMO. Fans seemed to like both but acknowledged Mitchell was more of a sexy albeit risky pick. I was okay with the Kennard pick and was actually worrisome of Mitchell as well, but guess what? I didn't scout, attend his games, or go through the motions that a regular NBA scout does. There's a reason the Jazz traded up for him. They saw something SVG and the Pistons didn't unfortunately.

    Agreed. I still think Kennard can be a dead-eye shooter in this league. I see him as a JJ Redick. But the thing is: SVg is on record saying he worried about Kennard's defense. Did all thru summer league (though he said he was pleasantly surprised) and into training camp. And there have been games where you can see the cringe on SVG's face. So I look at Mitchel who has athleticism in spades, i.e., can get by on D just on athleticism, and Mitchel says he didn't miss a shot in his Det workout - just don't know what the thought process was there.

    I can see if Kennard is going to set up with dish and drives, but Ish can get by anyone in the league - so we haven't see Kennard as much as we should - if my logic is correct.

    If we're playing H-O-R-S-E, I take Kennard - if no dunking is allowed. But with my wife a Jazz fan and her having bought me League Pass, I see a good number of Jazz games. The difference is there, but then you have to compare the D side difference - and then just the shear ability to make a play. And its not like Mitchel was unknown for not doing that.

    I mean, the first play of this video will make you cry for what might have been:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1InPTVMBLc

    After watching this video, I'm more convinced now than ever SVG needs to go. I mean, it's not like he's playing sisters of the blind. Louisville plays in the ACC. He played two years and last year average 16/5/3 and shot 35% from 3. Not outstanding, but. . .
    Last edited by markbutter; 03-16-2018 at 03:29 PM.

  12. #72
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    I would love to hear SVG's thought process on drafting players...IMO it seems like he prefers the safe pick or sure things over risk. We all knew Stanley was going to be solid on D and Kennard was going to be a good 3pt shooter. Maybe he thought he could bring the best out of them

    And thanks for that video if watching him take center stage during the dunk contest wasn't enough when was the last time the Pistons had a high-flyer on their team that can get the crowd pumped? Drummond is athletic and is good for a nice alley-oop or two, but because of his height it's less "cool" compared to a guard or forward dunking.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ahoda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    and Syracuse has sucked for years
    Wish my wife's name was Syracuse.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWO35 View Post
    I would love to hear SVG's thought process on drafting players...IMO it seems like he prefers the safe pick or sure things over risk. We all knew Stanley was going to be solid on D and Kennard was going to be a good 3pt shooter. Maybe he thought he could bring the best out of them

    And thanks for that video if watching him take center stage during the dunk contest wasn't enough when was the last time the Pistons had a high-flyer on their team that can get the crowd pumped? Drummond is athletic and is good for a nice alley-oop or two, but because of his height it's less "cool" compared to a guard or forward dunking.
    he abandoned that idea when drafting Ellenson

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuySir View Post
    he abandoned that idea when drafting Ellenson
    Ellenson fell out of the lottery and was there at 18 IIRC. Who got drafted after him that was ranked ahead of him at the time?

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWO35 View Post
    I would love to hear SVG's thought process on drafting players...IMO it seems like he prefers the safe pick or sure things over risk. We all knew Stanley was going to be solid on D and Kennard was going to be a good 3pt shooter. Maybe he thought he could bring the best out of them

    And thanks for that video if watching him take center stage during the dunk contest wasn't enough when was the last time the Pistons had a high-flyer on their team that can get the crowd pumped? Drummond is athletic and is good for a nice alley-oop or two, but because of his height it's less "cool" compared to a guard or forward dunking.
    That's the pisser. Mitchell has athleticism in spades. You simply can't teach that and its not like his shot is broken - i.e., Lonzo. I mean, he does have a good stroke. That was the knock on SJ - his shot was not as smooth as Bookers. There's scorers and there's shooters. Shooters can fade in and out during a game. But scorers like Mitchel find a way to get points.

    He's whiffed on his 3 picks in my opinion. If we're 30-38 and a lottery pick is just barely scratching the surface and in the beginning of the year, Kennard had several DNP-CD, I don't know what to say. Its not like we got an all star at the SG, though Bullock is doing well. Kennard should have been getting minutes from the get go behind Avery. At least 15 or so.

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