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  1. #4486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Great idea...and it sounds so good on paper (or here on PSD) — like we all care so much — until at the end of the day we discover that we, along with most everyone else, especially legislators, truly do not have the will to enact, much less fund, such programs.

    Sounds familiar. Like a national registry.
    The mental health infrastructure was torn down because of some abuse in some facilities which made them shut down the facilities rather than fix them. Then they realized that no mental health facility was much cheaper than having one open and closed more and more and more until there were none left. They justified it with modern pharmaceuticals as they were told that the vast majority of mental health issues could be cured with drugs.

    ("they" is government starting in the late 70s and it continued through Clinton by which time it was all over)

    Somehow the drugs which were originally to be taken for a short period along with therapy, but pharma changed the message as soon as they could and added a bunch of "competing" solutions for people to take for the rest of their lives.

    Mental health in this country is screwed up from every side and it's big money so all we can ever do about fixing it is talk.

  2. #4487
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    ^^^ Bottom line, then, is that we do not give a fuzzy ratsass about improving mental health — except to haul it out when we want a convenient way to deflect away from addressing an equally serious gun problem.

  3. #4488
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackerBum9786 View Post
    thats a good argument I may borrow it from you.

    However most people don't like it when you try to compare guns with other things, I had a disagreement with a gentleman the other night over gun control. they were talking abut there are 38k gun deaths in the US every year so we need to have more gun control and I said yes and 61% of those are suicides with only 31% being homicide so maybe we need better mental health options, I also said there are almost 40k car deaths a year but, we don't seem to be coming up with new car regulations and he got pissy and came back and said that the car argument makes no sense and you can't use that as an argument against gun control.
    are they not changing regulations or whatever for cars/vehicles?

    not a good argument anyway, driving is not a right.


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    a person is smart. people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals.
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  4. #4489
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    That is factually inaccurate. Studies have literally proved that wrong.

    It's ironic you bring up Illinois because Chicago was for the longest time held up as the defacto example of the failure of gun laws, however a few years back the Illinois Supreme Court struck down some of the Chicago's gun measures and immediately after gun deaths rose in the city.

    But the biggest problem is what you stated "while it may prevent some of the cases its not going to stop every single one". The logical fallacy there being if it won't stop 100% of the behavior it's not worth doing. Even reducing by 50% or even 25% would be well worthwhile. I'd like to see 25% less suicides in this country, and I certainly wouldn't say "because we can't stop 100% of suicides, there's no point in trying to stop any at all".
    how is that an accurate study when guns continue to be an option and not taken out of the equation.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    a person is smart. people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals.
    #TrumpDerangementSyndrome


  5. #4490
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    Ding ding ding

    Sounds like we should do a better job restricting people getting linked up with many of these guns then since that’s when we start having problems. [emoji2371]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    sounds good, deeper background checks and more about the person. which supports what I said that it's not the gun. simply banning a specific gun like the AR-15 doesn't address that it's a person pulling the trigger.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    a person is smart. people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals.
    #TrumpDerangementSyndrome


  6. #4491
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    Quote Originally Posted by browski234 View Post
    One of? Name the other ones.

    Thought so lol.

    Also your absurd stance on abortion aside, feel free to answer the question anytime soon.

    Your phony pro-life stance seems to go quiet when a violent threat against a POTUS you don’t support is made. Then again you are defending your anti-abortion stance as being against “the end of a life” (which it’s not but ok) while obstructing prevention of mass murder.

    Gun nut GOP cultists strangely care about “life” before it is born. Once you’re born? Not so much.

    one of, contradicts the narrative that it's the guns fault.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    a person is smart. people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals.
    #TrumpDerangementSyndrome


  7. #4492
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    how is that an accurate study when guns continue to be an option and not taken out of the equation.
    Because they found places with less guns equal less suicides.

  8. #4493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    ^^^ Bottom line, then, is that we do not give a fuzzy ratsass about improving mental health — except to haul it out when we want a convenient way to deflect away from addressing an equally serious gun problem.
    Exactly. Like how the same people who vote against aid for the homeless trot out homeless veterans anytime we talk about illegal immigration saying how we should take care of them first.

  9. #4494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    ^^^ Bottom line, then, is that we do not give a fuzzy ratsass about improving mental health — except to haul it out when we want a convenient way to deflect away from addressing an equally serious gun problem.
    And unfortunately the gun defenders are not wrong. It's just that like all such things, it's never just one thing.

  10. #4495
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Because they found places with less guns equal less suicides.
    It's been a long time since I read a study on that so my memory is suspect, but IIRC one of the issues with the study was that they couldn't isolate other influences that might change suicide rate in that population. Still it's a logical conclusion that availability of a quick way to kill yourself will increase the rate it happens.

  11. #4496
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Exactly. Like how the same people who vote against aid for the homeless trot out homeless veterans anytime we talk about illegal immigration saying how we should take care of them first.
    You mean politicians are horrible hypocrites? You don't say!

  12. #4497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    You mean politicians are horrible hypocrites? You don't say!
    Except in this case it isn’t politicians, it’s the gun advocates and the anti-immigration voters.

  13. #4498
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    sounds good, deeper background checks and more about the person. which supports what I said that it's not the gun. simply banning a specific gun like the AR-15 doesn't address that it's a person pulling the trigger.
    Except now you’re wrong because we know that it does. If you take out high capacity high, high caliber, high rate of fire guns out of circulation then we know that it will address the person pulling the trigger because they will be much less dangerous. Statistics fully bare this out.

    People will still be able to hunt and protect themselves (shotguns would be more intimidating to me anyways). There can always be special exemptions. But we know how this plays out because states with good laws do better than those who don’t have those and countries with common sense just laugh at us.


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  14. #4499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    It's been a long time since I read a study on that so my memory is suspect, but IIRC one of the issues with the study was that they couldn't isolate other influences that might change suicide rate in that population. Still it's a logical conclusion that availability of a quick way to kill yourself will increase the rate it happens.
    They did a pretty good job isolating it as a major factor:

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-m...s-matter/risk/

    https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-ne...cide-risk.html

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK223849/


    “Studies have compared gun suicide rates between states with a high prevalence of guns and states with a low prevalence of guns, have consistently found that the high gun states have higher rates of suicide committed with firearms than low gun states. Almost twice as many people in the states with high gun prevalence commit suicide. The evidence suggests there is little substitution of means”

  15. #4500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    And unfortunately the gun defenders are not wrong. It's just that like all such things, it's never just one thing.
    But they also know at the same time that they are just playing a shell game.

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