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  1. #16
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    I'm not sure I want Jansen to be the backup. He needs ABs. I think it's a waste to have him up as a backup. When he's here it better be to play everyday.

  2. #17
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    So did the Jays pick up another Kendrys Morales here as far as the bat is concerned?
    Last edited by FLeays; 01-20-2018 at 01:10 PM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LechWalesa View Post
    Hell, hopefully a number 1.

    This off-season is starting to make less and less sense to me. They've spent so much money in aggregate on average/borderline players that they could have just lumped in on one really good player who could have made significant contributions to the team.

    I understand the issue isn't so much AAV but the term some of these guys will likely command... but come on.
    Honestly considering how the last two years have went the Diaz and Solarte moves make total sense. Tulo has a full NTC that kicked in once he was dealt so he isn't going anywhere unless it's on his terms and I can't imagine any contender wanting him. The OF moves are frustrating but there continues to be talk of us being in on Yelich. I honestly think they're still trying to land a big name but they just realized it was about time to grab a security blanket.

    So far Atkins has been true to his words. MI depth was priority but then he said pitching was next. Judging by how the market for pitchers has stalled I think he just went ahead to his #3 which was the OF. We're getting a pitcher next. Whether it be through trade or signing I don't know but I am almost certain we're getting a pitcher next. Unless we somehow nab Yelich.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLeays View Post
    So did the Jays pick up another Kendrys Morales here as far as the bat is concerned?
    A dead pull power bat with 30+ HR and 30+ 2B potential if he plays full time... but does most of his damage against RHP, and shouldnt clog the basepaths. He isn't going to hit for average or help the team OBP. Anything over .300 would be a bonus with him, so he isnt hitting 1 or 2. He's a bottom third of the order kind of bat in the AL East with good defense in the OF.

    Is there anyone on this team not named Donaldson we can expect to have an OBP over .340? Its pretty bad when the best lead off option is a 37 year old outfielder, and the only 3 guys with even a hint of any speed are Granderson, Grichuk and Pillar. This really makes me want Roemen Fields or Dalton Pompey to somehow win that 4th OF spot instead of Zeke. At least then we can bring someone in to steal a base when needed.

  5. #20
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    This is like watching a Colby Rasmus on the team all over again.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    A dead pull power bat with 30+ HR and 30+ 2B potential if he plays full time... but does most of his damage against RHP, and shouldnt clog the basepaths. He isn't going to hit for average or help the team OBP. Anything over .300 would be a bonus with him, so he isnt hitting 1 or 2. He's a bottom third of the order kind of bat in the AL East with good defense in the OF.

    Is there anyone on this team not named Donaldson we can expect to have an OBP over .340? Its pretty bad when the best lead off option is a 37 year old outfielder, and the only 3 guys with even a hint of any speed are Granderson, Grichuk and Pillar. This really makes me want Roemen Fields or Dalton Pompey to somehow win that 4th OF spot instead of Zeke. At least then we can bring someone in to steal a base when needed.
    Zeke can swipe bags. We just never steal.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    A dead pull power bat with 30+ HR and 30+ 2B potential if he plays full time... but does most of his damage against RHP, and shouldnt clog the basepaths. He isn't going to hit for average or help the team OBP. Anything over .300 would be a bonus with him, so he isnt hitting 1 or 2. He's a bottom third of the order kind of bat in the AL East with good defense in the OF.

    Is there anyone on this team not named Donaldson we can expect to have an OBP over .340? Its pretty bad when the best lead off option is a 37 year old outfielder, and the only 3 guys with even a hint of any speed are Granderson, Grichuk and Pillar. This really makes me want Roemen Fields or Dalton Pompey to somehow win that 4th OF spot instead of Zeke. At least then we can bring someone in to steal a base when needed.
    I think Travis and Martin could have an OBP over .340.

    Personally I'd rather see Alford over Fields and Pompey. He might not be as fast however he may be able to provide defense in CF and actually draw a walk and should be able to hit just as good as Pillar.

    Good point on the with Grichuk on the basepaths. He probably won't chug it like Morales. I just don't see how Grichuk improves the Jays situational hitting.

  8. #23
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    If Gibbons or the Mmnt can make a legit top 6 order of the lineup, I'm ok with Grichuk near the bottom along with Martin, and Pillar.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hardcore View Post
    If Gibbons or the Mmnt can make a legit top 6 order of the lineup, I'm ok with Grichuk near the bottom along with Martin, and Pillar.
    Agreed. No problem with Grichuk as a bottom of the order bat.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hardcore View Post
    If Gibbons or the Mmnt can make a legit top 6 order of the lineup, I'm ok with Grichuk near the bottom along with Martin, and Pillar.
    If I had to guess, he'll probably end up being like 6th bat.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLeays View Post
    I think Travis and Martin could have an OBP over .340.

    Personally I'd rather see Alford over Fields and Pompey. He might not be as fast however he may be able to provide defense in CF and actually draw a walk and should be able to hit just as good as Pillar.

    Good point on the with Grichuk on the basepaths. He probably won't chug it like Morales. I just don't see how Grichuk improves the Jays situational hitting.
    They both "could" sure, but is it reasonable to expect it? Martin had a foolish walk rate to do it for the first time in 3 years last year, and Travis hasn't done it in either of his last 2 partial seasons. On top of that, can you even expect either one to even play 120+ games with Martin's age and Travis' health history. We hope they can, but a smart man wouldn't bet on it...

    Grichuk isn't here to fix the situational hitting. He is here to hit 2B's, HR's and play good defense in the OF. He's actually very similar to a pre 2017 Marcell Ozuna...with a little less OBP and more extra base hits than Ozuna had before he broke out last year.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    This is like watching a Colby Rasmus on the team all over again.
    Rasmus had a 5 WAR season

    Leone was pretty darn good and had other decent seasons aswell

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    They both "could" sure, but is it reasonable to expect it? Martin had a foolish walk rate to do it for the first time in 3 years last year, and Travis hasn't done it in either of his last 2 partial seasons. On top of that, can you even expect either one to even play 120+ games with Martin's age and Travis' health history. We hope they can, but a smart man wouldn't bet on it...

    Grichuk isn't here to fix the situational hitting. He is here to hit 2B's, HR's and play good defense in the OF. He's actually very similar to a pre 2017 Marcell Ozuna...with a little less OBP and more extra base hits than Ozuna had before he broke out last year.
    Which is why I'm not too excited about this trade. The Jays were middling with 2B's and HR's in the AL (7th and 8th respectively I think) and second last with BA w/ RISP in the entire league. His K/BB rate scares me. I am a fan of defense so it will be good to know the Jays RF will be able to make routine plays.

    And sure Grichuk can have a breakout season like Ozuna or Smoak or he can be the next Michael Saunders or Morales with the bat. At least the Jays didn't give up too much for him and he'll be an upgrade offensively against 2017 Bautista. It is at least a low risk trade and if he doesn't pan out (which is doubtful) the Jays at can call up Alford and Hernandez to call up.

    Martin has a career .350 OBP rate so it isn't unreasonable to think he cannot do it again. Travis as you said "could" but I wouldn't bet on it either. Still even if JD and Martin are the only two players with the potential of an OBP over .340 is not good. And we can't be sure as to how many games Travis and Martin will play either. At least there is better depth behind them now as far as offense goes.
    Last edited by FLeays; 01-21-2018 at 04:34 PM.

  14. #29
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    There is better depth yes, but grichuck is not an Osuna Type, Grichuck doesn't have any kind of plate discipline. If he's playing every day he can hit you 30-35 hrs, but he will strike out 200+ plus times. Good fielder though so there is that, bit of an erratic arm. once saw him throw out Jose Reyes by ten feet from second on a throw from deep right center and also miss the cutoff man over his head by ten in the same game. But if your expecting him to be selective in any fashion you'll be surprised. Bautista could bat leadoff in a pinch. Grichuck can not. This kid never met a swing he didn't like.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    There is better depth yes, but grichuck is not an Osuna Type, Grichuck doesn't have any kind of plate discipline. If he's playing every day he can hit you 30-35 hrs, but he will strike out 200+ plus times. Good fielder though so there is that, bit of an erratic arm. once saw him throw out Jose Reyes by ten feet from second on a throw from deep right center and also miss the cutoff man over his head by ten in the same game. But if your expecting him to be selective in any fashion you'll be surprised. Bautista could bat leadoff in a pinch. Grichuck can not. This kid never met a swing he didn't like.

    I assume you meant Ozuna... and Ozuna wasn't Ozuna before last season, which is my point....

    Before last year Ozuna's best season was .266/.321/.452 with 43 BB's in 608 PA's.... a 7% BB rate (7.07). Grichuk had 26 BB's in 442 PA's last year for a 6% BB rate (5.88), and at 23 years of age posted a slash line of .276/.329/.548 over 350 PA's, so the power is definitely there. If he can get up 1 or 2 more percentage points in his walk rate like Ozuna did, than he would be a very solid corner OF. I am not saying he is going to hit .312 and drop 37 bombs like Ozuna did last year, or turn into the next JD or Bautista, but he def has the potential to turn into a .280 hitter with an 8% BB rate and 30 HR's if he plays 150+ games. He's only going to be 26 next year, so he hasn't entered a power hitters prime yet. He may never break out, but I can see why Atkins and Co. are willing to give him a shot.

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